Great news! Over 20 dead in Orlando Night Club!

[dismal]

You do understand the purpose of the Federalist Papers, don't you?

I don't. This seems like a good time for a derail, if you'll indulge me.
What is the purpose of the Federalist Papers?

The Federalist papers were a series of articles published by the supporters of the new Constitution explaining and defending it. There are also anti-Federalist papers published by those who were generally skeptical that the Constitution would concentrate too much power in the hands of the Federal government. They are considered to be an excellent secondary source for the meaning of various phrases in the Constitution because they were written by the drafters of the Constitution at the time it was drafted. They also reflect the arguments upon which the Constitution was sold to the public.

 

[Malintent]

More people die every year from eating a poor diet than by legally acquired guns. If death toll is the metric by which we enact prohibition, then there are many things we should be more concerned with.

Heart disease is the #1 killer in this country, which includes many specific disorders, the vast majority of which relates to diet. By your argument, we should first be banning fast food before guns.

Second, is Cancer. The #2 killer in this country.. paired with the #3 killer, Lower Respiratory disease, it seems cigarettes should be the next thing to ban, after fast food, and FAR, FAR before guns...
the #4 killer (is it guns, yet? No.) is "unintentional injuries"... perhaps guns play in here. accidents happen. The vast majority occur in cars. Once we are done BANNING CARS, we can see what accidents are left over. Currently, there is one fatal vehicular accident every 60 seconds.

Where are "civilian owned guns" in the list? They are not even in the top 10.

You guys have a shitload of banning to do before we should be ready to start talking about gun prohibition.

Why the fuck are you NOT concerned with mitigating deaths that we can fucking mitigate? Kids get hurt on bikes so we added helmet laws? Does it prevent all bike injury? NO, BUT IT REDUCES THEM. People die in cars so we add seatbelt laws. Do seatbelts prevent car deaths? NO BUT IT REDUCES THEM. Kids are dying playing with guns? ..........crickets............... Innocent people are dying in mass shootings. Common denominator, rapid fire weaponry. ................crickets.................

Heart disease and cancer are medical conditions, often the result of genetics. So, not seeing a comparison in any way. However, there IS a full government agency out there to make sure products available to the public do no cause cancer, heart disease. I'm all for a federal agency that approves the design of weapons to limit their firing capacity, that requires licenses and insurance to own, that holds gun owners responsible for 'accidents' (you know, like they do with cars), that has a state/national database (you know like with driving cars). Ok, I'm for it.

The controls you mention as a parallel to having a driver's license are reasonable... and mostly exist today.
My comments are regarding prohibition, not regulation.

Prohibition bad.
Regulation necessary.

 

[Malintent]

"Semi-auto assault weapon" = evil-looking inferior hunting rifle.

So if its inferior for hunting, what's it good for?

The Hummer is inferior for fuel efficiency, so what's it good for?
The Smart Car is inferior for driver safety on the highways, so what's it good for?
The Mercedes G series has an ugly and uncomfortable interior, so what's it good for?
The Jeep Wrangler has a horribly bumpy ride on pavement, so what' sit good for?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So it seems that:

1. The guy was most likely a gay himself.
2. Had an asshole father, which is usual type of muslim father
3. The guy was bi-polar plus most likely other issues with his head

I admit ISIS thing is probably smaller issue than the fact that the guy was a psycho to begin with.

Psycho? Jesus! He wasn't a psycho. Being psychotic means something, it is a diagnosis, not a blind label to put on people.

Problem is, certain percent of people are psychos but they don't normally mass murder people. islam/ISIS is just convenient platform for all kind of messed up people to act.

We are still learning, but it sounds like this guy was hurting terribly inside, being told he was evil for who he was. Now most people don't go out and shoot up a gay night club if their family would disown them for being gay, however, America's stance on gays is abhorrent and a contributing factor in this case.

I feel terrible for anyone that dealt with him at the club, thinking that maybe if they helped him more this wouldn't have happened. Religion looks like it played a key role in this attack, however, that role seems to have a lot more parallels with right-wing christian bigotry than it usually does.

 

[Malintent]

Yes it would probably help. The little good it does is not worth trashing the 2nd amendment though.

Define militia.What was a militia in 1787?What does it mean in 2016?

Your local Homeowners Association.

I believe that in 1787, the militia was their concept of a police force. In 2016 we have a police force, however they no longer are comprised of civilian volunteers, but are another arm of the government, so they are no longer are our militia, as it were.

It is your local neighborhood watch group that represents what a militia was in 1787.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So if its inferior for hunting, what's it good for?

The Hummer is inferior for fuel efficiency, so what's it good for?
The Smart Car is inferior for driver safety on the highways, so what's it good for?
The Mercedes G series has an ugly and uncomfortable interior, so what's it good for?
The Jeep Wrangler has a horribly bumpy ride on pavement, so what' sit good for?

Transportation
Transportation
Transportation
Transportation

 

[ronburgundy]

Why the fuck are you NOT concerned with mitigating deaths that we can fucking mitigate? Kids get hurt on bikes so we added helmet laws? Does it prevent all bike injury? NO, BUT IT REDUCES THEM. People die in cars so we add seatbelt laws. Do seatbelts prevent car deaths? NO BUT IT REDUCES THEM. Kids are dying playing with guns? ..........crickets............... Innocent people are dying in mass shootings. Common denominator, rapid fire weaponry. ................crickets.................

Heart disease and cancer are medical conditions, often the result of genetics. So, not seeing a comparison in any way. However, there IS a full government agency out there to make sure products available to the public do no cause cancer, heart disease. I'm all for a federal agency that approves the design of weapons to limit their firing capacity, that requires licenses and insurance to own, that holds gun owners responsible for 'accidents' (you know, like they do with cars), that has a state/national database (you know like with driving cars). Ok, I'm for it.

The controls you mention as a parallel to having a driver's license are reasonable... and mostly exist today.
My comments are regarding prohibition, not regulation.

Prohibition bad.
Regulation necessary.

Prohibiting particular types of guns whose sole function is mass killing is part of sensible regulation of guns.

The Hummer is inferior for fuel efficiency, so what's it good for?
The Smart Car is inferior for driver safety on the highways, so what's it good for?
The Mercedes G series has an ugly and uncomfortable interior, so what's it good for?
The Jeep Wrangler has a horribly bumpy ride on pavement, so what' sit good for?

False analogies. All of those not good for some things but are good for other legal and non-lethal things. Assault rifles are good for nothing except indiscriminate mass killings of humans, which is always criminal.

 

[barbos]

Psycho? Jesus! He wasn't a psycho. Being psychotic means something, it is a diagnosis, not a blind label to put on people.

"psycho" is not a medical term and I was not trying to make a medical diagnosis here. But he was definitely messed up in his head.

Problem is, certain percent of people are psychos but they don't normally mass murder people. islam/ISIS is just convenient platform for all kind of messed up people to act.

We are still learning, but it sounds like this guy was hurting terribly inside, being told he was evil for who he was. Now most people don't go out and shoot up a gay night club if their family would disown them for being gay, however, America's stance on gays is abhorrent and a contributing factor in this case.

I feel terrible for anyone that dealt with him at the club, thinking that maybe if they helped him more this wouldn't have happened. Religion looks like it played a key role in this attack, however, that role seems to have a lot more parallels with right-wing christian bigotry than it usually does.

I am not sure that being muslim gay is enough for going and massacre people. I think you need more factors.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The news that this guy was on gay dating apps and hanging around the club all the time and was almost certainly a closeted homosexual must be making it really awkward for all the homophobic bigots who've been hailing him as a hero and a martyr.

It'd kind of be like laughing at Nordberg's wacky antics in The Naked Gun and then realizing that you're getting a chuckle from a dude who brutally murdered his wife.

 

[Tristan Scott]

"Semi-auto assault weapon" = evil-looking inferior hunting rifle.

So if its inferior for hunting, what's it good for?

I know practically nothing about guns, but I assume it's good for mass killings like this since it seems to be the weapon of choice. It's obviously easy to purchase, I believe it can carry a large amount of ammo. It's probably lightweight and easy to handle.

 

[funinspace]

Got one in my extended family...

So if its inferior for hunting, what's it good for?

I know practically nothing about guns, but I assume it's good for mass killings like this since it seems to be the weapon of choice. It's obviously easy to purchase, I believe it can carry a large amount of ammo. It's probably lightweight and easy to handle.

Also, under achieving white males look real cool in pics wearing their favorite macho wear with an AR-15 in hand...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Hummer is inferior for fuel efficiency, so what's it good for?
The Smart Car is inferior for driver safety on the highways, so what's it good for?
The Mercedes G series has an ugly and uncomfortable interior, so what's it good for?
The Jeep Wrangler has a horribly bumpy ride on pavement, so what' sit good for?

Transportation
Transportation
Transportation
Transportation

Please note that I said "inferior", not "useless". He presented four examples of cars that are inferior in a certain role and yet you're defending them.

- - - Updated - - -

Prohibiting particular types of guns whose sole function is mass killing is part of sensible regulation of guns.

The vast majority of such guns never kill anyone. That can hardly be their sole function!

- - - Updated - - -

So if its inferior for hunting, what's it good for?

I know practically nothing about guns, but I assume it's good for mass killings like this since it seems to be the weapon of choice. It's obviously easy to purchase, I believe it can carry a large amount of ammo. It's probably lightweight and easy to handle.

Most killings are with handguns.

 

[jonatha]

The vast majority of such guns never kill anyone. That can hardly be their sole function!

And what benefit, in your view, do the uses of the vast majority of such guns provide that outweighs the rather serious harm the minority causes?

 

[Tristan Scott]

So if its inferior for hunting, what's it good for?

I know practically nothing about guns, but I assume it's good for mass killings like this since it seems to be the weapon of choice. It's obviously easy to purchase, I believe it can carry a large amount of ammo. It's probably lightweight and easy to handle.

Most killings are with handguns.

Yes, and most gun killings are suicide. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that if someone who has anger issues or is on somebody's watch list goes and buys an AR-15 with a shitload of ammo, it would be nice if some alarms would go off somewhere.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The vast majority of such guns never kill anyone. That can hardly be their sole function!

That's like saying that the vast majority of fire extinguishers never put out a fire, so extinguishing fires isn't what they're made for. They're designed to do a certain task and the fact that most of them are never used for that task doesn't mean that's their function.

 

[funinspace]

The vast majority of such guns never kill anyone. That can hardly be their sole function!

That's like saying that the vast majority of fire extinguishers never put out a fire, so extinguishing fires isn't what they're made for. They're designed to do a certain task and the fact that most of them are never used for that task doesn't mean that's their function.

Such small minds...they can do other things like become a nice coffee table decoration to talk about...

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, I can't argue with crazy and weird shit that the Japanese come up with. I withdraw the point.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Transportation
Transportation
Transportation
Transportation

Please note that I said "inferior", not "useless". He presented four examples of cars that are inferior in a certain role and yet you're defending them.

I'm what now? What does that have to do with banning a weapon like the AR-15?

Prohibiting particular types of guns whose sole function is mass killing is part of sensible regulation of guns.

The vast majority of such guns never kill anyone. That can hardly be their sole function!

And when the government is coming for the vast majority of guns your statement will mean something.

So if its inferior for hunting, what's it good for?

I know practically nothing about guns, but I assume it's good for mass killings like this since it seems to be the weapon of choice. It's obviously easy to purchase, I believe it can carry a large amount of ammo. It's probably lightweight and easy to handle.

Most killings are with handguns.

Most mass killings aren't.

- - - Updated - - -

So if its inferior for hunting, what's it good for?

I know practically nothing about guns, but I assume it's good for mass killings like this since it seems to be the weapon of choice. It's obviously easy to purchase, I believe it can carry a large amount of ammo. It's probably lightweight and easy to handle.

Most killings are with handguns.

Yes, and most gun killings are suicide. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that if someone who has anger issues or is on somebody's watch list goes and buys an AR-15 with a shitload of ammo, it would be nice if some alarms would go off somewhere.

Sir, our system indicates an AR-15 was just purchased.
Was it purchased with a shitload of ammo?
Let me check... no... a buttload.
Buttload? Is that more or less than a shitload?
I have no idea... who the heck came up with this new ammo protocol?
*both officers turn to reader* Killary!!!

 

[RavenSky]

So if its inferior for hunting, what's it good for?

The Hummer is inferior for fuel efficiency, so what's it good for?
The Smart Car is inferior for driver safety on the highways, so what's it good for?
The Mercedes G series has an ugly and uncomfortable interior, so what's it good for?
The Jeep Wrangler has a horribly bumpy ride on pavement, so what' sit good for?

All of those vehicles still get people from A to Z.

What does an AR-15 do if it is no good for hunting.

Sent from my SM-G920T1 using Tapatalk

 

[bilby]

Why the fuck are you NOT concerned with mitigating deaths that we can fucking mitigate? Kids get hurt on bikes so we added helmet laws? Does it prevent all bike injury? NO, BUT IT REDUCES THEM. People die in cars so we add seatbelt laws. Do seatbelts prevent car deaths? NO BUT IT REDUCES THEM. Kids are dying playing with guns? ..........crickets............... Innocent people are dying in mass shootings. Common denominator, rapid fire weaponry. ................crickets.................

Heart disease and cancer are medical conditions, often the result of genetics. So, not seeing a comparison in any way. However, there IS a full government agency out there to make sure products available to the public do no cause cancer, heart disease. I'm all for a federal agency that approves the design of weapons to limit their firing capacity, that requires licenses and insurance to own, that holds gun owners responsible for 'accidents' (you know, like they do with cars), that has a state/national database (you know like with driving cars). Ok, I'm for it.

The controls you mention as a parallel to having a driver's license are reasonable... and mostly exist today.
My comments are regarding prohibition, not regulation.

Prohibition bad.
Regulation necessary.

Prohibition isn't on the table. It's just put out there to scare people.

The UK doesn't prohibit gun ownership. Nor does Australia. The USA adopting the regulatory framework of either nation would go far beyond the dreams of most USAian gun control advocates today.

The only people who are talking about prohibition are pro-gun propagandists and their patsies.