The Shooting of Alton Sterling

[Derec]

What, increasing his cred?

Isn't it pretty much maxed out?

Note, I don't know what Deray was doing when he was arrested.

However, to get a criminal or arrest record that will deny you the chance for a job or student loans for a peaceful (if obstructive) protest with no vandalism is terribly wrong and it part of a totalitarian state. However cops would probably lied and trump up a charge to fuck them over.

For a protest that is just a hassle for the cops and motorists etc... the protestor should only get a couple days in jail and a moderate fine. NEVER a criminal or arrest record that is employer searchable.

Fines are pointless as #BLM can always call on their sympathizers to donate. Or get George Soros to give more money to organizations funding #BLM. There needs to be real deterrence otherwise it will keep happening. Do not release them after an hour and then drop the cases like San Francisco has done. A good punishment would be community service. Picking up trash off highways for instance.

 

[laughing dog]

Then perhaps it's best not to fight the police in the first place.

And that is relevant to these police shooting Alton Sterling because......? In order for your response to actually relevant, remember police are supposed to be trained peace officers.

 

[Derec]

Yes. Talking to you and Loren is like talking to a wall.

You are projecting.

Maybe Trump's wall... a YUGE wall

Works for Westeros.

- - - Updated - - -

And that is relevant to these police shooting Alton Sterling because......?

He fought the police.

In order for your response to actually relevant, remember police are supposed to be trained peace officers.

We have not even had an investigation and whether and what mistakes have been made we do not know. What is known is that Alton S. was a career criminal (since the age of 15) and fought with the police at the time of his death.

 

[laughing dog]

We have not even had an investigation and whether and what mistakes have been made we do not know. What is known is that Alton S. was a career criminal (since the age of 15) and fought with the police at the time of his death.

His history is irrelevant to whether it was proper that he was shot. So, your implicit "blaming the victim" smear attempt is duly noted. You are not fooling anyone.

He did not fight the officers. At best, he was noncompliant with the officers. Your misuse of the term "fought" indicates that a desperate attempt to justify your nasty biases. You are not fooling anyone.

 

[Ford]

We have not even had an investigation and whether and what mistakes have been made we do not know. What is known is that Alton S. was a career criminal (since the age of 15) and fought with the police at the time of his death.

His history is irrelevant to whether it was proper that he was shot. So, your implicit "blaming the victim" smear attempt is duly noted. You are not fooling anyone.

He did not fight the officers. At best, he was noncompliant with the officers. Your misuse of the term "fought" indicates that a desperate attempt to justify your nasty biases. You are not fooling anyone.

He was certainly struggling. Resisting being held down. But the fact is that he was being held down. If you watch the video, he pinned to the ground by both cops. The one cop then puts his hand on Sterling's body to steady himself, draws his sidearm, and shoots Sterling twice in the chest at point blank range. Then after fatally wounding him, rolls off and plugs him a few more times to make sure.


Sterling was sufficiently restrained that the officer was able to draw his weapon. While he had it up against Sterling's chest, he took the time to calmly issue instructions shout "you fucking move I swear to god." Then he shot him.


So being non-compliant/struggling while being restrained is an offense that is punishable (at least if your black in Baton Rouge) with immediate and summary execution.

 

[Bronzeage]

His history is irrelevant to whether it was proper that he was shot. So, your implicit "blaming the victim" smear attempt is duly noted. You are not fooling anyone.

He did not fight the officers. At best, he was noncompliant with the officers. Your misuse of the term "fought" indicates that a desperate attempt to justify your nasty biases. You are not fooling anyone.

He was certainly struggling. Resisting being held down. But the fact is that he was being held down. If you watch the video, he pinned to the ground by both cops. The one cop then puts his hand on Sterling's body to steady himself, draws his sidearm, and shoots Sterling twice in the chest at point blank range. Then after fatally wounding him, rolls off and plugs him a few more times to make sure.


Sterling was sufficiently restrained that the officer was able to draw his weapon. While he had it up against Sterling's chest, he took the time to calmly issue instructions shout "you fucking move I swear to god." Then he shot him.


So being non-compliant/struggling while being restrained is an offense that is punishable (at least if your black in Baton Rouge) with immediate and summary execution.

Perhaps someone should study how well a person can comprehend and follow orders after being hit by a taser dart.

 

[untermensche]

He fought the police.

The use of deadly force is only legal when a person, even a cop, thinks their life is in immediate danger.

There is no evidence of this on the video.

Neither of these cops had any reason to think their lives were in immediate danger.

They were either bad cops or cowards.

 

[arkirk]

He fought the police.

The use of deadly force is only legal when a person, even a cop, thinks their life is in immediate danger.

There is no evidence of this on the video.

Neither of these cops had any reason to think their lives were in immediate danger.

They were either bad cops or cowards.

This killing was murder. There really is little doubt about it and it is weird that anybody would defend it. Yet...we seem to has some who simply seem to think if the person is black, he is a danger and may be eliminated by shooting. This cop belongs in jail RIGHT NOW.

 

[fast]

It's like talking to a wall.

There seems to be two camps. Neither camp blames the victim for the assailants actions, but in one camp, there is blame remaining for the victims involvement. If you walk into a bar in South Carolina and start pinching wives of rednecks, people will take the law into their own hands and leave the floor flowing crimson red. The prevailing attitude will be that he had it coming--blaming the victim, not for the assailants action but rather for the role the victim played encouraging the wrong doing of the assailant.

The police, as professionals, most often try and succeed in overlooking the attitudes and actions of suspected criminals that test the impending decisions police make, but sometimes, try as they might, they will fail to do what's right and will instead unjustifiably commit a wrongful act that injures or kills a suspected criminal. Neither camp fails to see the wrongful nature of the police officers actions (especially when obviously so), yet while one camp cannot fathom exclaiming any blame towards the victim (and remember, neither camp blames the victim for what the assailant did), there is nevertheless going to be blame towards the victim by only one of the camps, not for what the assailant did, but rather for the lesser crime committed by the victim surrounding the incident that eventually led to the assailants actions.

So, while I agree that we should not blame the victim per se, especially when it comes to the unjustified actions of the perpetrator that ultimately made the victim a victim, I too find it difficult to withhold any blame towards the victim--when it comes to the fact that had it not been for the victims actions, they would not have become a victim in the first place, yet I say that while acknowledging the fact that it's also true that the victim would not have been a victim had the officer not overreacted and a committed a more harsh crime in his own right.

Since you're apt to show blame towards a deceased victim even in circumstances when there is an unjustifiable act by a police officer, it's important to be extraordinarily clear that you hold no blame whatsoever towards the victim in regards to an officers wrongful action. Blame them for what they did, not for what happened to them.

It's not the persons fault his blood will be spilt after pinching the wives of rednecks in South Carolina bars. What's his fault are those little red spots on the butts of women. Blame the victim, yes, but blame them for what they did, not for the unlawful acts that most certainly will follow.

When a criminal resists arrest in an atmosphere where an officer is likely to kill you, yes, blame the officer, and be sure to place all the blame on the officer, but if you have some blame reserved for the victim, be sure to note that none of the blame for what the officer did is directed towards the victim. The blame we have for the victim is for the lesser crime of what the victim did, which is resist.

 

[Derec]

The use of deadly force is only legal when a person, even a cop, thinks their life is in immediate danger.

Yes, and making an erroneous assessment in real time is not necessarily a crime. That said, cops make millions of arrests every year. A significant fraction of them are against a resisting subject. Teh law of big numbers states that even when the individual likelihood is low, the cumulative probability becomes high.
In any case, the best way to lower the likelihood of being shot is to not resist. Why is that simple statement so controversial on here?

 

[Derec]

This killing was murder. There really is little doubt about it and it is weird that anybody would defend it. Yet...we seem to has some who simply seem to think if the person is black, he is a danger and may be eliminated by shooting. This cop belongs in jail RIGHT NOW.

No, it is not clearly murder. Unless a Mosbyesque prosecutor gets the case the most will be manslaughter charge. Although depending on circumstances there may not be a charge at all.

 

[fast]

The use of deadly force is only legal when a person, even a cop, thinks their life is in immediate danger.

Yes, and making an erroneous assessment in real time is not necessarily a crime. That said, cops make millions of arrests every year. A significant fraction of them are against a resisting subject. Teh law of big numbers states that even when the individual likelihood is low, the cumulative probability becomes high.
In any case, the best way to lower the likelihood of being shot is to not resist. Why is that simple statement so controversial on here?

That's not the best way, as there is a better way.

 

[Derec]

That's not the best way, as there is a better way.

That being?

 

[fast]

That's not the best way, as there is a better way.

That being?

Better police recruiting and training.

 

[Derec]

Better police recruiting and training.

That is a more long term solution. I was talking about things that everyone can do today.

 

[untermensche]

The use of deadly force is only legal when a person, even a cop, thinks their life is in immediate danger.

Yes, and making an erroneous assessment in real time is not necessarily a crime. That said, cops make millions of arrests every year. A significant fraction of them are against a resisting subject. Teh law of big numbers states that even when the individual likelihood is low, the cumulative probability becomes high.
In any case, the best way to lower the likelihood of being shot is to not resist. Why is that simple statement so controversial on here?

No.

The use of deadly force when your life is not in immediate danger is a crime.

It is always a crime.

If cowards can't control themselves they shouldn't do the work.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Better police recruiting and training.

That is a more long term solution. I was talking about things that everyone can do today.

The police can stop murdering people

Barring that, stop letting the police get away with murdering people.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Better police recruiting and training.

That is a more long term solution.

I'm glad you see that it appears some in the Police are terrible at their jobs and that the protective wall within the Police needs to be dealt with.

I was talking about things that everyone can do today.

Well, I'd say the first thing is to have a Police lunch and learn where they teach that using any force on someone should be a last resort because it is an admission you have lost control of the situation.

 

[Derec]

The use of deadly force when your life is not in immediate danger is a crime.

The cops have to make their decisions in a very tense situation in real time. They do not have the benefit of watching video multiple times and adjust their response. "Arrest of Alton Sterling, take 3" is not an option.

It is always a crime.

Wrong.

If cowards can't control themselves they shouldn't do the work.

Alton Sterling had an illegal gun. He resisted arrest. He was a career criminal who at least once before resisted arrest while armed. I give him at least 80% of the blame for the shooting.

 

[beero1000]

The cops have to make their decisions in a very tense situation in real time. They do not have the benefit of watching video multiple times and adjust their response. "Arrest of Alton Sterling, take 3" is not an option.

In a tense situation, EVERYBODY has to make their decisions in real time. For some unknown reason, some people only extend the benefit of understanding this to the police. You know, the ones that are supposed to be trained to stay calm and collected under pressure.