Too Much Policing in Black Neighborhoods

[Trausti]

Through the end of the day Friday, Chicago had seen 475 murders – just six less than in all of last year, according to police department statistics. The city has already exceeded last year’s total number of gun-related homicides, with 430.

As violence rises, an increasing number of shootings and murders are going unsolved. Through 28 August, the police department had only made arrests in 73 of the nearly 2,000 non-fatal shooting incidents so far this year – or just under 4%, according to a department spokesman.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/04/chicago-gun-violence-unsolved-murders-deadly-year

With the continued righteous efforts of Black Lives Matter, we can get that 4% to 0%.

 

[Derec]

If they are not killed by police, #BLM couldn't give a flying fuck about what happens to "black lives".

 

[untermensche]

To much policing when it comes to intrusion into lives and harassment and assault. Pulling people over and using lies to search their vehicles. Digging into people's pockets and arresting them for "illegal drugs". To much policing in terms of putting people disproportionately into prison.

As far as caring about crimes carried out against blacks.

As we see the police don't care that much.

 

[Trausti]

To much policing when it comes to intrusion into lives and harassment and assault. Pulling people over and using lies to search their vehicles. Digging into people's pockets and arresting them for "illegal drugs". To much policing in terms of putting people disproportionately into prison.

As far as caring about crimes carried out against blacks.

As we see the police don't care that much.

True that. Snitches get stitches.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Nothing constructive to say on the topic, then? Just mud slinging? Got it.

 

[untermensche]

To much policing when it comes to intrusion into lives and harassment and assault. Pulling people over and using lies to search their vehicles. Digging into people's pockets and arresting them for "illegal drugs". To much policing in terms of putting people disproportionately into prison.

As far as caring about crimes carried out against blacks.

As we see the police don't care that much.

True that. Snitches get stitches.

Is yammering now counted as argument?

 

[Trausti]

True that. Snitches get stitches.

Is yammering now counted as argument?

You don't think that might have something to do with the low clearance rate?

 

[untermensche]

Is yammering now counted as argument?

You don't think that might have something to do with the low clearance rate?

Your idea is racist.

 

[Trausti]

You don't think that might have something to do with the low clearance rate?

Your idea is racist.

That when residents don't talk to the police this leads to low % of crime solved is racist? Damn, everything is racist, ain't it? What isn't racist anymore. Anything?

 

[Derec]

Your idea is racist.

That when residents don't talk to the police this leads to low % of crime solved is racist? Damn, everything is racist, ain't it? What isn't racist anymore. Anything?

 

[untermensche]

Your idea is racist.

That when residents don't talk to the police this leads to low % of crime solved is racist? Damn, everything is racist, ain't it? What isn't racist anymore. Anything?

Yes.

You place the problem on the victim.

The real problem is the police don't care as much about black lives as they do about some white lives.

The police don't like the poor much either.

They reflect the prejudices of their masters, the rich, and general societal prejudices.

 

[Trausti]

That when residents don't talk to the police this leads to low % of crime solved is racist? Damn, everything is racist, ain't it? What isn't racist anymore. Anything?

Yes.

You place the problem on the victim.

The real problem is the police don't care as much about black lives as they do about some white lives.

The police don't like the poor much either.

They reflect the prejudices of their masters, the rich, and general societal prejudices.

Yeah, the police are causing all the people to shoot at each other. It's brilliant, really. Job security.

 

[Jarhyn]

To much policing when it comes to intrusion into lives and harassment and assault. Pulling people over and using lies to search their vehicles. Digging into people's pockets and arresting them for "illegal drugs". To much policing in terms of putting people disproportionately into prison.

As far as caring about crimes carried out against blacks.

As we see the police don't care that much.

It's pretty obvious when the arrest rates of persons in poor neighborhoods are high, yet response times to calls in those very neighborhoods are abysmally bad. It seems the utter inverse of wealthy neighborhoods.

Essentially, we see the OP making yet another clear strawman argument, by purporting that BLM wants to reduce policing but divorcing this view from the context in which proponents hold it: in mucking about in the daily lives of residents.

Let me make it plain as to my own views: cops need to stop patrolling and enforcing petty laws such as drug possession or use, jaywalking, and minor vehicle problems and start actually looking out for the well-being of residents in ways those residents actually purport to need help.

 

[untermensche]

Yes.

You place the problem on the victim.

The real problem is the police don't care as much about black lives as they do about some white lives.

The police don't like the poor much either.

They reflect the prejudices of their masters, the rich, and general societal prejudices.

Yeah, the police are causing all the people to shoot at each other. It's brilliant, really. Job security.

Actually the police are helping in the shooting people part.

But in the solving crime part?

They don't really care that much.

 

[ronburgundy]

To much policing when it comes to intrusion into lives and harassment and assault. Pulling people over and using lies to search their vehicles. Digging into people's pockets and arresting them for "illegal drugs". To much policing in terms of putting people disproportionately into prison.

As far as caring about crimes carried out against blacks.

As we see the police don't care that much.

Police "intruding" and "harassing" is your emotional subjective feelings about their actions they take because they care about and trying to prevent future criminal harm done in black communities and against black people.

You cannot catch or prevent criminal shootings without "intruding into lives", "pulling vehicles over" and "searching" suspects, and generally doing things that those having it done to them might call "harassment".

If you didn't try to equate these essential policing actions with "assault" and "using lies", you'd have more credibility. And it might help to show a shred of evidence that the degree to which these essential actions devolve into such criminal actions by cops is notably higher when the suspect is black (warning: all such data claimed as "evidence" for this presented on this board to date fails to show any such thing, and only shows that cops engages in policing actions in general in black areas due to the many fold higher crime rates of every type, including shootings.

When a person was just shot down the street, cops are more likely to lower their bar for probable cause to search a vehicle filled with young men. Every relevant piece of data confirms that such shootings are far more likely to occur in mostly black neighborhoods and the shooter and the victim are likely to be black, making it more likely that being stopped down the street from a shooting is far more likely to entail a carload of black men than white men due entirely to where people live. IOW, because blacks are far more likely to live near violent criminals, they are more likely to experience "intrusions into their lives" and getting "harassed" by the cops as they investigate those violent crimes. The actions that innocent members of the community experience as such harassment are the same actions that increase the probability that the criminals are found and thus reduce the likelihood those innocent community members are harmed by those criminals in the future. There is always a difficult balance between protecting the public from real threats and having those protective actions being an intrusion and harassment. The harassment of innocent blacks by cops is greater because the threat to blacks by criminals in their neighborhoods are greater.

Obviously there are lousy cops or even honest errors in judgment that lead cops to sometimes "harass" well beyond what is useful in enforcing violations of the law, and that occurs no matter the race of the suspect. The evidence is weak as to whether such incidents are notably more common against blacks, not in raw frequency, but relative to the much higher frequency with which cops need to "intrude" in response to much higher frequency of actual criminal activity.
Some degree of racist-based additional level of excessive harassment likely exists and just be hard to document with systematic data. However, the evidence supports that extra incidents of harassment of blacks can be almost entirely accounted for by extra incidents of legit response to crime, with the normal average rate of excess and error in the application of those responses. Thus, whatever added racism-based harassment exists is only a fraction of the harassment being complained about. So, any massive reduction in such "intrusions" can only come with a notable reduction in protecting blacks against the far far more probable threat to their property and lives posed by their neighbors.

 

[Trausti]

To much policing when it comes to intrusion into lives and harassment and assault. Pulling people over and using lies to search their vehicles. Digging into people's pockets and arresting them for "illegal drugs". To much policing in terms of putting people disproportionately into prison.

As far as caring about crimes carried out against blacks.

As we see the police don't care that much.

It's pretty obvious when the arrest rates of persons in poor neighborhoods are high, yet response times to calls in those very neighborhoods are abysmally bad. It seems the utter inverse of wealthy neighborhoods.

Essentially, we see the OP making yet another clear strawman argument, by purporting that BLM wants to reduce policing but divorcing this view from the context in which proponents hold it: in mucking about in the daily lives of residents.

Let me make it plain as to my own views: cops need to stop patrolling and enforcing petty laws such as drug possession or use, jaywalking, and minor vehicle problems and start actually looking out for the well-being of residents in ways those residents actually purport to need help.

BLM is harmful to law abiding citizens surrounded by endless criminality and a "no snitch" culture. If BLM really wanted to do good, it could take the influence and money it has accumulated and try to reduce crime in these neighborhoods. Instead, it blames the cops for all the ills. Reduce crime and alleged over policing will correct itself.

Eight days had passed since the Justice Department issued a scathing review of the Baltimore Police Department, detailing years of racial discrimination in its law enforcement practices.

Yet the 40 or so longtime residents who gathered in a West Baltimore church basement on this August night — many of whom were older black women afraid to walk to the store or leave their homes at night — had come to urge police to clear their corners of miscreants and restore order to their crime-plagued community.

“Please, help me,” pleaded gas station owner Chaudhry Masood, whose parking lot has been overrun by loiterers and where a 17-year-old was recently shot and killed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/baltimore-cops-pressured-to-police-differently-but-also-begged-to-clear-the-corners/2016/08/25/9e2372da-631e-11e6-96c0-37533479f3f5_story.html

 

[untermensche]

To much policing when it comes to intrusion into lives and harassment and assault. Pulling people over and using lies to search their vehicles. Digging into people's pockets and arresting them for "illegal drugs". To much policing in terms of putting people disproportionately into prison.

As far as caring about crimes carried out against blacks.

As we see the police don't care that much.

Police "intruding" and "harassing" is your emotional subjective feelings about their actions they take because they care about and trying to prevent future criminal harm done in black communities and against black people.

The drug war is an inherent intrusion.

It is intruding into people's personal business. Something the government has no business intruding in.

It is intrusion to prevent people from taking something they want to take.

You cannot catch or prevent criminal shootings without "intruding into lives", "pulling vehicles over" and "searching" suspects, and generally doing things that those having it done to them might call "harassment".

Looking at the rates of the police actually catching violent criminals shows this to be nonsense.

They are not intruding to help anybody. Their goal is to put as many young black men into prison as possible. The modern vestige of slavery. They are despised by the communities they harass.

 

[Trausti]

Looking at the rates of the police actually catching violent criminals shows this to be nonsense.

They are not intruding to help anybody. Their goal is to put as many young black men into prison as possible. The modern vestige of slavery. They are despised by the communities they harass.

By causing black men to commit a lot of crime? How are they doing that exactly? Does it involve animal sacrifice?

 

[untermensche]

Looking at the rates of the police actually catching violent criminals shows this to be nonsense.

They are not intruding to help anybody. Their goal is to put as many young black men into prison as possible. The modern vestige of slavery. They are despised by the communities they harass.

By causing black men to commit a lot of crime? How are they doing that exactly? Does it involve animal sacrifice?

The drug war plus confinement to ghettos with no opportunity and destruction of families though mass incarceration of young males creates a lot of this crime.

The police are merely further harming people that a diseased prejudiced society have already harmed.

Police behavior towards many blacks is a symptom of a diseased culture.

The solution is not simple.

But further and further oppression is not any solution. It is a way to maintain the problem.

 

[RavenSky]

Your idea is racist.

That when residents don't talk to the police this leads to low % of crime solved is racist? Damn, everything is racist, ain't it? What isn't racist anymore. Anything?

IF low arrest rate is a result of non-cooperation from citizens as opposed to apathy and non-action of the part of police - a claim that you have utterly failed to substantiate so we are speaking strictly hypothetically here...

IF the low arrest rate is due to non-cooperation from people in the community, how much of that is due to a very justified mistrust of police?