Syed's Mega-Thread

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

there are some countries in europe adopted atheism ideology for human, why did they throw atheist ideology in trash?

I have no idea which countries you might be talking about there. I can tell you, however, that the least religious countries are also those with the happiest, most productive best educated citizens.

 

[Ford]

Again, where is your evidence that these people are atheists?

they are naked that proved they are atheists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg84mFeIsLQ

Piraha people are uncivilized atheists, we need to give them a religion to civilize them

Wow. Not only are your language skills lacking, you've got a reading comprehension problem.

The tribe in your original "challenge" post are a completely different group than the Piraha. Different tribe. Different culture. Different language. The only thing they have in common with the Piraha is that they're located in Brazil.

Do you even look at this drivel before you post?

 

[bilby]

Again, where is your evidence that these people are atheists?

they are naked that proved they are atheists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg84mFeIsLQ

Piraha people are uncivilized atheists, we need to give them a religion to civilize them

The 19th Century rang - they want their bigoted racist nonsense back.

 

[Syed]

there are some countries in europe adopted atheism ideology for human, why did they throw atheist ideology in trash?

I have no idea which countries you might be talking about there. I can tell you, however, that the least religious countries are also those with the happiest, most productive best educated citizens.

you do know which countries i am talking about former atheist's eastern european countries
so why did they throw atheist ideology in trash?

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

they are naked that proved they are atheists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg84mFeIsLQ

Piraha people are uncivilized atheists, we need to give them a religion to civilize them

Wow. Not only are your language skills lacking, you've got a reading comprehension problem.

The tribe in your original "challenge" post are a completely different group than the Piraha. Different tribe. Different culture. Different language. The only thing they have in common with the Piraha is that they're located in Brazil.

Do you even look at this drivel before you post?

He certainly didn't pay attention to the video he posted, titled Former missionary Daniel Everett recounts his story of losing faith to Amazonian tribe . :laughing-smiley-014

 

[Keith&Co.]

well, ALL you atheists failed MY challenge

Called it.
I SAID you'd declare a victory, even though you never did provide a logical reason for atheists to want to fulfill this challenge.
So, Syed's prejudices are hallowed and reinforced, syed learns nothing, and nothing changes.


As always.

religions civilized human

And by 'civilized' you mean the dressed, literate people that are bombing children in the mid-east, right?
Are any naked atheist tribes bombing people in the mideast, syed?

You have odd ides about what 'civilization' means.

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

Thanks, Syed. I enjoyed that video you linked, although I suspect you might not enjoy it, if you ever get round to watching it.

Here's a couple of choice quotes from the video you posted to persuade us that the Pirahas need to be taught your kind of "civilization":

"The five Piraha men, carrying nothing but one axe and a few machetes among them, laughed at my long sleeves, long pants, boots, canteens, and enormous machete."

You see, Syed, sometimes not wearing clothes is the smart thing to do. Like when you're living in the jungle.

"I told them 'Well, he ("god") made the stars, and he made the Earth', then I asked, "'What do the Piraha say?' He answered, 'Well, the Piraha say that these things were not made'."

Again, the Piraha appear to be a lot smarter than many "civilised" people.

"The Piraha have shown me that there's dignity, and great satisfaction, in facing life and death without the comfort of heaven, or the fear of hell, and in sailing toward the great abyss with a smile. And they've shown me that, for years, I held many of my beliefs without warrant

Yup.

 

[Syed]

Quote Originally Posted by Former missionary David Everett
"The five Piraha men, carrying nothing but one axe and a few machetes among them, laughed at my long sleeves, long pants, boots, canteens, and enormous machete."

You see, Syed, sometimes not wearing clothes is the smart thing to do. Like when you're living in the jungle.

your atheists ancestor were living in jungle or cave, do you think atheists should be living in jungle?

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

Quote Originally Posted by Former missionary David Everett
"The five Piraha men, carrying nothing but one axe and a few machetes among them, laughed at my long sleeves, long pants, boots, canteens, and enormous machete."

You see, Syed, sometimes not wearing clothes is the smart thing to do. Like when you're living in the jungle.

your atheists ancestor were living in jungle or cave, do you think atheists should be living in jungle?

No, unless that's where they want to live, but I think if atheists were living in a jungle, clothes wouldn't help them much.

BTW, I don't think my ancestors were atheists. Not their fault; they lived in times when it was a bad idea to be atheist. You know, less civilised times.

 

[Ford]

Quote Originally Posted by Former missionary David Everett
"The five Piraha men, carrying nothing but one axe and a few machetes among them, laughed at my long sleeves, long pants, boots, canteens, and enormous machete."

your atheists ancestor were living in jungle or cave, do you think atheists should be living in jungle?

No, unless that's where they want to live, but I think if atheists were living in a jungle, clothes wouldn't help them much.

BTW, I don't think my ancestors were atheists. Not their fault; they lived in times when it was a bad idea to be atheist. You know, less civilised times.

You mean less civilized like when religious folks arrived on the shores of "the new world" and set about slaughtering any and all indigenous people who didn't convert?

What Syed doesn't seem to grasp is that these scantily clad tribes he's so worked up about are merely the ones who survived the introduction of "civilization" to their continent.

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

No, unless that's where they want to live, but I think if atheists were living in a jungle, clothes wouldn't help them much.

BTW, I don't think my ancestors were atheists. Not their fault; they lived in times when it was a bad idea to be atheist. You know, less civilised times.

You mean less civilized like when religious folks arrived on the shores of "the new world" and set about slaughtering any and all indigenous people who didn't convert?

What Syed doesn't seem to grasp is that these scantily clad tribes he's so worked up about are merely the ones who survived the introduction of "civilization" to their continent.

That's right, and their ancestors probably had quite an advanced civilisation going before they were driven into the Amazon to get away from the "civilising" influence of the conquistadors.

 

[Gila Guerilla]

The key question then, is: 'Of all the things which God" might know ~ what is
beyond "God's" knowledge, and what is known, to "God", when and why ???'

god has knowledge of ALL thing in the universe because he created them

god has no knowledge of BEFORE ( split second) human take action

you take action then god knows your action..........he didnt know before

stay with this topic

you may have some question on same topic

A split second seems no better than at the same instance. In other words, "God" knows a split second before you take
action you might just as well say "God" knows your action at the same instance as you take your action.

Question 1. Why is a split second of any importance ???

Question 2. You only mention 'your' actions, and I presume you mean human actions. Do you say the same of the actions of an animal ???

You also have got away from mentioning "freewill" actions.

Take your heart beating. Does that qualify as one of your actions or not - because it does not happen of your "freewill".
Many actions of humans are automatic. The actions I am talking about are many in number, and include . . .

° heart beating,
° stomach digesting food,
° skin sweating,
° eye involuntarily blinking when dust gets in,
° blood going to various parts of the body due to hot or cold weather,
° accidents; (like slipping over or unintentionally pranging a car into a light pole).

Question 3. Actions like those, that are not of the "free will" variety . . . are they fore-seeable by God" ??? ​

Note also that being born, and dying are not actions of "free will", (ignore suicide for the sake of this discussion).
So adding to your answer to question 3. above ^ ^ ^,

Question 4. Is "God" able to fore-see when a person will be born and when they will die, (presuming that the death is NOT by "freewill"; (ie. it's natural or by murder) ??? ​

When you answered: 'god has knowledge of ALL thing in the universe because he created them' and
'god has no knowledge of BEFORE (split second) human take action',

you did not explain what you mean by all thing in the universe,
nor did you explain how long is the split you say god has no knowledge of BEFORE human take action.

Remember, the important points are not only the WHAT, but also the WHY ?

 

[Syed]

there are some countries in europe adopted atheism ideology for human, why did they throw atheist ideology in trash?

I have no idea which countries you might be talking about there. I can tell you, however, that the least religious countries are also those with the happiest, most productive best educated citizens.

i think you do know atheists communist so why did they throw atheist ideology in trash?

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

I have no idea which countries you might be talking about there. I can tell you, however, that the least religious countries are also those with the happiest, most productive best educated citizens.

i think you do know atheists communist so why did they throw atheist ideology in trash?

There is no such thing as "atheist ideology". Not all atheists are communists, not all communists are atheists. As for the "communist" countries (which weren't even communist really, but that's a debate for another time and with other people), they may have discarded traditional religions, but the personality cults of their leaders were just another form of religion. the same kind of thing can be seen in North Korea to this day.

I don't think they discarded what you call "atheist ideology", either. None of those countries is now a theocracy, or even has an official religion. And many of them have large percentages of people who identify as atheist or non-religious. Meanwhile, the world's least religious country, China, is fast becoming one of the world's most successful. They have ditched many of the communistic policies of the past, but I doubt even you'd deny they're still very much atheistic. And the world's least successful, poorest countries tend to be the most religious.

P.S. I notice you're avoiding commenting on the fact that the video you linked to demonstrate that an Amazon tribe could be converted to Abrahamic belief and taught to read, write and wear clothes actually shows them still illiterate, still naked, and actually deconverting the missionary sent to convert them. Do you not feel a little foolish about that? Have you still not watched the video? Or are you just ignoring the facts as inconvenient while you try other, equally ineffective, even counterproductive angles of attack ... as usual?

 

[Syed]

i think you do know atheists communist so why did they throw atheist ideology in trash?

There is no such thing as "atheist ideology". Not all atheists are communists, not all communists are atheists. As for the "communist" countries (which weren't even communist really, but that's a debate for another time and with other people), they may have discarded traditional religions, but the personality cults of their leaders were just another form of religion. the same kind of thing can be seen in North Korea to this day.

I don't think they discarded what you call "atheist ideology", either. None of those countries is now a theocracy, or even has an official religion. And many of them have large percentages of people who identify as atheist or non-religious. Meanwhile, the world's least religious country, China, is fast becoming one of the world's most successful. They have ditched many of the communistic policies of the past, but I doubt even you'd deny they're still very much atheistic. And the world's least successful, poorest countries tend to be the most religious.

the truth is former atheists countries trashed their idiotic atheistic ideology because atheism making depressed and poorer

P.S. I notice you're avoiding commenting on the fact that the video you linked to demonstrate that an Amazon tribe could be converted to Abrahamic belief and taught to read, write and wear clothes actually shows them still illiterate, still naked, and actually deconverting the missionary sent to convert them. Do you not feel a little foolish about that?

they are STILL naked and illiterate atheists

they NEED religion so they can be civilize

 

[Syed]

Gila Guerilla

A split second seems no better than at the same instance. In other words, "God" knows a split second before you take
action you might just as well say "God" knows your action at the same instance as you take your action.

Question 1. Why is a split second of any importance ???

human free will

example

i planed to kill someone, god KNOWS my PLAN but god does NOT KNOW i will actually kill UNTIL i will KILLED

Question 2. You only mention 'your' actions, and I presume you mean human actions.

Do you say the same of the actions of an animal ???

NO

animals dont have FREE WILL and god dont care animal kill other animal or behave badly

You also have got away from mentioning "freewill" actions.

Take your heart beating. Does that qualify as one of your actions or not - because it does not happen of your "freewill".
Many actions of humans are automatic. The actions I am talking about are many in number, and include . . .

° heart beating,
° stomach digesting food,
° skin sweating,
° eye involuntarily blinking when dust gets in,
° blood going to various parts of the body due to hot or cold weather,
° accidents; (like slipping over or unintentionally pranging a car into a light pole).

those are our body parts they dont have free will they work as god design them to works

Question 3. Actions like those, that are not of the "free will" variety . . .
are they fore-seeable by God" ???

yes, if a person get sick

Note also that being born, and dying are not actions of "free will", (ignore suicide for the sake of this discussion).
So adding to your answer to question 3. above ^ ^ ^,

god give life and he take life, you cant kill yourselves and no one can kill you

Question 4. Is "God" able to fore-see when a person will be born and when they will
die, (presuming that the death is NOT by "freewill"; (ie. it's natural or by murder) ???

god give life and he take life

you did not explain what you mean by all thing in the universe,

anything you can see in the universe and cant see

 

[C_Mucius_Scaevola]

the truth is former atheists countries trashed their idiotic atheistic ideology because atheism making depressed and poorer

No, the truth is as I said: communism and atheism are not the same thing, and most of the world's most prosperous countries are also the least religious. Oh, and the least depressed, too. World Happiness Report 2017 has just been published. Have a look at the happiest and the least happy countries, and see if you can guess which are the most, and least, religious.

they are STILL naked and illiterate atheists

Naked? Yes.
Illiterate? Yes.
Atheists? We've been over that already. Just because they don't believe in your version of "god", doesn't mean they're atheists.

they NEED religion so they can be civilize

If "civilised" means learning to impose their unfounded beliefs on others, and despise those who don't believe what they believe, then you're probably right: they do need religion for that. But as you've been told many times: not everybody agrees with you that civilising them is necessarily a good thing, nor that teaching them about omaginary beings is the way to go about it.

But let's assume for the sake of the argument that they do need to be "civilised" and that religion is the best way to do it ... how would you propose to do that? If you ever get round to watching the video you linked, you'll see that at least one previous attempt failed. And that attempt was by a man trained as a missionary, whose job and life's work it was to teach Xianity to non-believers. He failed, to the extent that he lost his faith in "god", perceiving that they had a better worldview than he did. So, if he failed, with all his training and dedication, what makes you think that you, untrained as you are and with your apparent inability to follow an argument to its conclusion, have any chance of succeeding?

 

[Gila Guerilla]

human free will
example
i planed to kill someone, god KNOWS my PLAN but god does NOT KNOW i will actually kill UNTIL i will KILLED

Question 2. You only mention 'your' actions, and I presume you mean human actions.
Do you say the same of the actions of an animal ???

NO
animals dont have FREE WILL and god dont care animal kill other animal or behave badly

You also have got away from mentioning "freewill" actions.

Take your heart beating. Does that qualify as one of your actions or not - because it does not happen of your "freewill".
Many actions of humans are automatic. The actions I am talking about are many in number, and include . . .

° heart beating,
° stomach digesting food,
° skin sweating,
° eye involuntarily blinking when dust gets in,
° blood going to various parts of the body due to hot or cold weather,
° accidents; (like slipping over or unintentionally pranging a car into a light pole).

those are our body parts they dont have free will they work as god design them to works

Question 3. Actions like those, that are not of the "free will" variety . . .
are they fore-seeable by God" ???

yes, if a person get sick

Note also that being born, and dying are not actions of "free will", (ignore suicide for the sake of this discussion).
So adding to your answer to question 3. above ^ ^ ^,

god give life and he take life, you cant kill yourselves and no one can kill you { <= emphasis added }.

Question 4. Is "God" able to fore-see when a person will be born and when they will
die, (presuming that the death is NOT by "freewill"; (ie. it's natural or by murder) ???

god give life and he take life

you did not explain what you mean by all thing in the universe,

anything you can see in the universe and cant see

What a jumble of ideas ! ! !

From what you have said above, "God" can fore-see things not of "free-will".

Therefore, "God" can fore-see :-

° heart beating,
° stomach digesting food,
° skin sweating,
° eye involuntarily blinking when dust gets in,
° blood going to various parts of the body due to hot or cold weather,
° accidents; (like slipping over or unintentionally pranging a car into a light pole)
° when a person will be born and when they will die.

If I am in error on any of those bullet points, Syed, please explain where, giving evidence for the WHY of it.

Question box for Syed, by Gila Guerilla

This means that 1000 years ago, "God" could see me today in the year 2017, and know that my heart is well and beating, I have
cereal in my stomach digesting, I'm a bit sweaty because I have been working in my garden, my face is red due to blood going
there due to my gardening exertions, and I knocked my toe on plant pot I failed to see in time.
Or else, "God" today in 2017, knows how my heart will be doing, how my belly will be digesting, if I'll be hot and sweaty or not, at
this time of the year, in the year 2020, say.

What do you say to that, Syed, ???

Syed, you've said that if a person were to kill me by murder, it is "God" who does the killing, not the murderer or terrorist, (boy
what an excuse for any murderer or terrorist ! ! !) (Refer to emphasised part from your posting above :-
{ you cant kill yourselves and no one can kill you }

Question box for Syed, by Gila Guerilla

Do you know what contradictory statements are, Syed ???

Here are a pair of contradictory statements in what you posted in the above :-

Statement (1) { i planed to kill someone, god KNOWS my PLAN but god does NOT KNOW i will actually kill UNTIL i will KILLED }
Statement (2) { god give life and he take life, you cant kill yourselves and no one can kill you }

Here are the relevant parts pulled right out :-

(1) UNTIL i will KILLED
(2) no one can kill you

So according to that, you can kill someone, and you cannot kill someone. That is illogical and impossible.

In addition, when you say 'god KNOWS my PLAN'; note that your plan is an act of "free-will" - any plan is originated in your mind,
and may not forced upon you by any other person*. This contradicts that "God" cannot fore-see your acts of "free-will", because
according to you, Syed, "he" can fore-see this one, (ie. your "free-willed" plan to kill).

* = People can coerce others into killing, but many killings are done without coercion, and so come under the category of "free will".
not forced upon you.

Additional question for Syed, by Gila Guerilla Do you agree, Syed, that your plan is your plan, and any plan you make is something you do of your own "free will" ???

You stated that "God" has Knowledge of: { anything you can see in the universe and cant see }. You make no mention of when.
I take this to mean that "God" has knowledge of the location of all the atoms and molecules in the universe, where they are, how they
are moving, and "he" has always know this, (for any moment in time), and that moments in time include past present and future§. So
"God" knows all about all the atoms of oxygen in the air, and where they are, and how fast those atoms are travelling, (or not going if
they are standing still). In addition, "God" knows where all those atoms of oxygen in the air will be in five minutes from now, and how fast
those atoms are going five minutes from now. And further to that "God" knows all of that information about those atoms of oxygen, as
they will be in 1,000 years from now, or 1 million years from now, (including if they have gone out of existence for some reason).

Additional question for Syed, by Gila Guerilla To summarise "God" knows all about all the atoms of oxygen in the air, and where they are, and how fast those atoms are travelling, now and into the future forever. Is that the way you see things, Syed ??? ​

A final thought, I asked you to show us the evidence for what you are telling us, and to give any links, so that we can go and check up
on the truth or not. So far you have not given any indication of the evidence for your claims, as I would expect a 'religious scientist', (as you
called yourself), to be able to do. Please give us some of that evidence.
Thanks, Gila Guerilla,

P.S. I don't see how I can make this post any shorter because all of the ideas are linked into a 'whole concept analysis'.

 

[DBT]

i planed to kill someone, god KNOWS my PLAN but god does NOT KNOW i will actually kill UNTIL i will KILLED

Syed, assuming the existence of a God, how do you personally know what God knows or doesn't know?

 

[Syed]

i planed to kill someone, god KNOWS my PLAN but god does NOT KNOW i will actually kill UNTIL i will KILLED

Syed, assuming the existence of a God, how do you personally know what God knows or doesn't know?

there are some verse in the quran that indicate to ME