52, and other unimaginably large numbers

[Malintent]

None of this here is more than mental exercise. None of it means anything.

hey now... I take exception to that. Well, it certainly is a mental exercise... but it is meaningful... very meaningful, if you know what to do with it.

Ever try to explain Deep Time to an incredulous science-denier? These "visualization tools" may be very useful. It's also a nice way to show how seemingly "large" probabilities (like of "life" arising) are not very large, as compared to something very familiar, like the order of a deck of cards.

 

[untermensche]

None of this here is more than mental exercise. None of it means anything.

hey now... I take exception to that. Well, it certainly is a mental exercise... but it is meaningful... very meaningful, if you know what to do with it.

Ever try to explain Deep Time to an incredulous science-denier? These "visualization tools" may be very useful. It's also a nice way to show how seemingly "large" probabilities (like of "life" arising) are not very large, as compared to something very familiar, like the order of a deck of cards.

You are saying the mental exercise has a use.

But if you're dealing with a full grown science-denier there may be no meaning to the exercise.

 

[bilby]

hey now... I take exception to that. Well, it certainly is a mental exercise... but it is meaningful... very meaningful, if you know what to do with it.

Ever try to explain Deep Time to an incredulous science-denier? These "visualization tools" may be very useful. It's also a nice way to show how seemingly "large" probabilities (like of "life" arising) are not very large, as compared to something very familiar, like the order of a deck of cards.

You are saying the mental exercise has a use.

But if you're dealing with a full grown science-denier there may be no meaning to the exercise.

He is. But not everyone shares your denialist stance, so there remains meaning even though you are immune to it.

 

[untermensche]

You are saying the mental exercise has a use.

But if you're dealing with a full grown science-denier there may be no meaning to the exercise.

He is. But not everyone shares your denialist stance, so there remains meaning even though you are immune to it.

You confuse denying the claims of a few with denying science.

Skepticism of flimsy claims that can't be supported is rational.

 

[bilby]

He is. But not everyone shares your denialist stance, so there remains meaning even though you are immune to it.

You confuse denying the claims of a few with denying science.

Skepticism of flimsy claims that can't be supported is rational.

Denial is not skepticism. Dictatorial claims about reality, presented without evidence, are valueless - and anyone who says otherwise is WRONG.

 

[untermensche]

You confuse denying the claims of a few with denying science.

Skepticism of flimsy claims that can't be supported is rational.

Denial is not skepticism. Dictatorial claims about reality, presented without evidence, are valueless - and anyone who says otherwise is WRONG.

Strawman.

Many concepts have necessities contained within them.

Like the concept of "experience". It requires both something that can experience and things it is capable of experiencing.

Pointing that out is just pointing out what everybody knows already about experience. Calling it a dictatorial claim is ridiculous.

 

[DBT]

You are a legend in your own mind. A poster who only has opponents, who patiently try to help you to understand the basics of logic, neuroscience, etc, but are fighting a losing battle against someone who appears incapable of understanding.

Give me a break.

I am somebody that disagree with you on a few things.

Stop being so melodramatic.

None of this here is more than mental exercise. None of it means anything.

You conflate melodrama with your untenable claims getting a good solid hiding while pretending it's melodrama in a futile attempt to save face.

 

[untermensche]

You conflate melodrama with your untenable claims getting a good solid hiding while pretending it's melodrama in a futile attempt to save face.

There is no real understanding of brain activity.

If a cell is a tiny switch in some computer like computational device you have to somehow go from electrical switch to conscious experience.

Nobody can do that.

But this is a thread about the incredibly high number of possible shuffles in a deck of cards.

People look at the brain and they see an incredibly high number of possible directions an impulse could take. But the direction of the impulse must be highly controlled for something like vision to arise.

What exactly is creating that control is unknown.

We know we have conscious experience. We know there is brain activity.

We have nothing to connect the two.

 

[Malintent]

You conflate melodrama with your untenable claims getting a good solid hiding while pretending it's melodrama in a futile attempt to save face.

There is no real understanding of brain activity.

If a cell is a tiny switch in some computer like computational device you have to somehow go from electrical switch to conscious experience.

Nobody can do that.

But this is a thread about the incredibly high number of possible shuffles in a deck of cards.

People look at the brain and they see an incredibly high number of possible directions an impulse could take. But the direction of the impulse must be highly controlled for something like vision to arise.

What exactly is creating that control is unknown.

We know we have conscious experience. We know there is brain activity.

We have nothing to connect the two.

We certainly have large gaps of knowledge in that area. however it is silly to say we "have nothing".

We have understanding of chemistry, and the knowledge that it is not a random process
We have knowledge of electromagnetism, and the knowledge of how information can be rapidly transmitted
We have knowledge of cells and their biochemistry, and know they are not "simple switches" by any means.

We don't know everything, but we know far more than nothing.

 

[untermensche]

We know we have conscious experience. We know there is brain activity.

We have nothing to connect the two.

We certainly have large gaps of knowledge in that area. however it is silly to say we "have nothing".

We have understanding of chemistry, and the knowledge that it is not a random process
We have knowledge of electromagnetism, and the knowledge of how information can be rapidly transmitted
We have knowledge of cells and their biochemistry, and know they are not "simple switches" by any means.

We don't know everything, but we know far more than nothing.

We understand electricity and magnetism greatly but cannot use them to create something with a consciousness.

We wouldn't even know where to begin to do something like that.

We have no conception how something like consciousness could arise from the activity of cells.

As far as the generation of consciousness from brain cells:

We know nothing.

 

[DBT]

We know nothing.

The truth is, Mr Untermensche, you appear to know nothing about the current state of neuroscience even while making claims of knowing something. Which is amusing up to a point but can become rather tiresome after a while.

 

[Malintent]

We certainly have large gaps of knowledge in that area. however it is silly to say we "have nothing".

We have understanding of chemistry, and the knowledge that it is not a random process
We have knowledge of electromagnetism, and the knowledge of how information can be rapidly transmitted
We have knowledge of cells and their biochemistry, and know they are not "simple switches" by any means.

We don't know everything, but we know far more than nothing.

We understand electricity and magnetism greatly but cannot use them to create something with a consciousness.

We wouldn't even know where to begin to do something like that.

We have no conception how something like consciousness could arise from the activity of cells.

As far as the generation of consciousness from brain cells:

We know nothing.

yabut... your post didn't solve world hunger, so it meant nothing.... <rolleyes>