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Is political violence ok when it is from the Left?

 
 
 
Derec said:
Black-clad antifa members attack peaceful right-wing demonstrators in Berkeley

You do not see widespread condemnation of Antifas. You do not see them losing their jobs just for being observed at Antifa rally. You do not see them being banned from Ok Cupid just for being observed at an Antifa rally.

Why the glaring double standard between right-wing and left-wing extremism?
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because "left-wing extremism" happens more or less in a vacuum - an isolated and independent group of individuals take action which is at best ignored by the mainstream "left" political body (and media, for what very little "leftist" media exists in the US) but is usually officially condemned, and there is no political clout to the actions of these individuals nor any notable public support.

right-wing extremism is openly embraced and encouraged by the elected body of representatives as well as the media, to the point where republicans show up on ranches to support domestic terrorists and pass laws to embolden or protect them, and there is often significant public support from the ilk that buys into this sort of crap.

so, when "left wing extremists" do something shitty, it's going to happen and then it's over and while it's a tragedy for the circumstance surrounding the incident there's no broader ramifications.
when "right wing extremists" start pulling shit, you're right around the corner from having their behavior codified into law.
thus, a more vigorous public reaction is required in order to set the precedent regarding the social zeitgeist, and/or to display public disapproval for those actions when none comes from official sources.
 
Derec was banned from OK Cupid?
 
prideandfall said:
Derec said:
Black-clad antifa members attack peaceful right-wing demonstrators in Berkeley

You do not see widespread condemnation of Antifas. You do not see them losing their jobs just for being observed at Antifa rally. You do not see them being banned from Ok Cupid just for being observed at an Antifa rally.

Why the glaring double standard between right-wing and left-wing extremism?
Click to expand...
because "left-wing extremism" happens more or less in a vacuum - an isolated and independent group of individuals take action which is at best ignored by the mainstream "left" political body (and media, for what very little "leftist" media exists in the US) but is usually officially condemned, and there is no political clout to the actions of these individuals nor any notable public support.

right-wing extremism is openly embraced and encouraged by the elected body of representatives as well as the media, to the point where republicans show up on ranches to support domestic terrorists and pass laws to embolden or protect them, and there is often significant public support from the ilk that buys into this sort of crap.

so, when "left wing extremists" do something shitty, it's going to happen and then it's over and while it's a tragedy for the circumstance surrounding the incident there's no broader ramifications.
when "right wing extremists" start pulling shit, you're right around the corner from having their behavior codified into law.
thus, a more vigorous public reaction is required in order to set the precedent regarding the social zeitgeist, and/or to display public disapproval for those actions when none comes from official sources.
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^ 100% this.

When a bunch of anarchists start a riot, it's because they're anarchists trying to overthrow the government without having any coherent idea of how to do that.

When a bunch of authoritarians start a riot, it's because someone in the government is trying to put one of his rivals in his place and knows EXACTLY how to do that.
 
If this worked to lessen fascist sentiments, then the violence would be ok. Violence is not inherently wrong, as we know from having had to go to war to put down politically powerful fascists.

Antifa is wrong not merely for being violent, but for having a stupid tactic. If they were smart they'd trivialize what fascists do with humor and mockery instead of pandering to their wishes for violence.

It's interesting that the polarization has such an extreme example here. It doesn't necessarily make them equally wrong though. If anyone's going to feel just a slight bit of sympathy with one or the other side, then it rightly belongs with anyone opposed to fascism, the foremost anti-liberty ideology on earth.
 
abaddon said:
Antifa is wrong not merely for being violent, but for having a stupid tactic. If they were smart they'd trivialize what fascists do with humor and mockery instead of pandering to their wishes for violence.
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Ya, the best thing I heard was that a Nazi march was co-opted as an involuntary charity walk and they raised donations for a Jewish community center or something based on how far the Nazis marched, complete with numerous signs along the route thanking the Nazis for their support.

They're geared up for violence and it feeds into their sense of how they're standing up against oppression because they're the real victims. They have no ability to counter just outright mockery, though.
 
This guy mocking Antifa at least. He did the Pepsi can thing a while ago at another protest:

 
Gotta wonder about "left wing protestors" being hired by the Cheato cabal to incite violence.
I'd bet the farm on it if there was any way to prove it.
 
Derec said:
Black-clad antifa members attack peaceful right-wing demonstrators in Berkeley

You do not see widespread condemnation of Antifas. You do not see them losing their jobs just for being observed at Antifa rally. You do not see them being banned from Ok Cupid just for being observed at an Antifa rally.

Why the glaring double standard between right-wing and left-wing extremism?
Click to expand...

First, you do see condemnation of Antifa by liberals. Second, the HUUUGE difference is that white nationalists are the GOP base without whom Trump wouldn't have been elected, whereas the Antifa and the extreme left are outside of and largely against the Democratic party and their rhetoric is among the reasons Hillary and the Dems lost. There were more of them than of right-wingers protesting Hillary. Their closest top level political ally is Bernie who has repudiated them and yet who the Democratic party rejected as too extreme.

The reason that the "alt-left" rejected Hillary is that they actually are more similar to right-wingers than to liberals. They are opposed actual liberal Democracy because it requires pursuing political goals within the bounds of respecting the personal liberty and rights of others. The alt-right has no regard for that and just wants to use force to immediately achieve particular ends, which for them is Marxian notions of group level outcome equality by any means neccessary.

While right wingers do not share that ultimate goal, they do share the lack of regard for the principle of personal liberty and rights. In fact, their goal is the elimination of the rights for non-whites, gays, and women that they feel should never have been given in the first place. Their "liberty" rhetoric is just the same "state's rights" bullshit the Confederacy gave for opposing the Fed attempt to protect the personal liberty of the people that the right was trying to crush.

Ironically to those who don't understand actual principles, the actual liberals and majority of Dems are the one's trying to oppose this GOP base from turning back rights of those in politically weak groups that the alt-left pretends to fight for, while also being opposed by Antifa and their far-left allies for not being willing to abandon those principles of rights and liberty to achieve group outcome equality.
 
Elixir said:
Gotta wonder about "left wing protestors" being hired by the Cheato cabal to incite violence.
I'd bet the farm on it if there was any way to prove it.
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While that is perfectly plausible, so is the actual demonstrated existence of violent leftists with no regard for the principles of liberal Democracy (hint: They were among those who ensured Trump's victory by refusing to vote for Hillary, because she didn't share their illiberal Marxist extremism).
 
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ronburgundy said:
Elixir said:
Gotta wonder about "left wing protestors" being hired by the Cheato cabal to incite violence.
I'd bet the farm on it if there was any way to prove it.
Click to expand...

While that is perfectly plausible, so is the actual demonstrated existence of violent leftists with no regard for the principles of liberal Democracy (hint: They were among those who ensured Trump's victory by refusing to vote for Hillary, because she didn't share their illiberal Marxist extremism).
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Valid point, and I didn't mean to imply that all the black clad "antifas" were Cheato's henchmen. I'm of the same mind about these leftist extremists - they might as well be Nazis, as effectively as they further the alt-right cause.
 
I agree with most of what Ron wrote above, except that no, white nationalists are not Trump's "base without whom he would not have been elected".

White nationalists were a very small part of his base that got him elected. There were many reasons and different people who voted Trump in.

They definitely support him though, and Antifa definitely doesn't support Hillary Clinton. There were of course many reasons not to support her as well.
 
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