Keep passing the Kool-Aid of Heaven

[Ramaraksha]

Here's an interview with a bishop published today in my local newspaper - http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago...ists-i-think-its-empty-face-to-faith-podcast/

60 minutes this is not. What would Heaven be like? Like asking Bernie Madoff what kind of returns one can expect or Fox News conducting a Trump interview

I like the fact that she thinks that Hell does not exist - what a vile concept that has been around for centuries. But then the follow-up question would be what about the likes of Hitler & Stalin? Evil people who killed millions without mercy. What happens to them? Are they sitting in Heaven enjoying themselves?

And then we come to Heaven - ok, what does one DO in heaven? Do we just float around doing nothing? We get the "we will meet and be with our loved ones" part - but then what? Is there anything to do? Do people just snore away eternity? What kind of jobs would the maker of this universe have for us puny humans? And this is God's Grand Plan? Millions sitting around doing nothing? snoring away eternity?

How come these questions are never asked? Keep drinking the kool-aid of heaven that is being passed around and shut up?

What about people who die in accidents? They die but their family lies in the hospital fighting for their lives & they are enjoying cake in heaven now? A man dies in an accident, his wife going crazy trying to pay the bills, keep the house and rushing back and forth from the hospital where her children are fighting for their lives and this man is enjoying heaven?

Again and again, these questions are never asked, frankly not even by Atheists - keep the fantasy going

 

[funinspace]

Here's an interview with a bishop published today in my local newspaper - http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago...ists-i-think-its-empty-face-to-faith-podcast/

60 minutes this is not. What would Heaven be like? Like asking Bernie Madoff what kind of returns one can expect or Fox News conducting a Trump interview

I like the fact that she thinks that Hell does not exist - what a vile concept that has been around for centuries. But then the follow-up question would be what about the likes of Hitler & Stalin? Evil people who killed millions without mercy. What happens to them? Are they sitting in Heaven enjoying themselves?

Lots of those who have chosen interpret the Bible to not have God’s eternal Auschwitz for the masses, now say/think that it is just a 'true death' for those that don't believe in Christ; or maybe just an eternal Auschwitz for those 'few' truly evil ones. But yes, hell is a vile notion and is slowly going the way of stoning ones children.

And then we come to Heaven - ok, what does one DO in heaven? Do we just float around doing nothing? We get the "we will meet and be with our loved ones" part - but then what? Is there anything to do? Do people just snore away eternity? What kind of jobs would the maker of this universe have for us puny humans? And this is God's Grand Plan? Millions sitting around doing nothing? snoring away eternity?

And does the ex-spouse get to hang around with the old partner? And what about that secretary the guy talked into giving him a BJ?

How come these questions are never asked? Keep drinking the kool-aid of heaven that is being passed around and shut up?

Part of why they don't talk about it much is that from the very few verses that say anything of substance about 'heaven' one has to conclude that humans pretty much are lobotomized upon entering heaven per the 2 below verses. How does one not cry for the rebellious child or sibling that clearly denied their maker god, if one believes in that eternal Auschwitz? How does one just walk away from that spouse that one loved for up to decades pretending that they don't have that relationship? Answer: lobotomy

Revelation 21:4 “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
Mt 22:30 “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.”

A couple other verses that touch on what will be there. Those first century Christians weren't very inventive. Yippy feasts and wine
Lk 22:18 “For I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes."
Lk 22:28-30 “You are those who have stood by Me in My trials; and just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom…”

 

[Ramaraksha]

Lots of those who have chosen interpret the Bible to not have God’s eternal Auschwitz for the masses, now say/think that it is just a 'true death' for those that don't believe in Christ; or maybe just an eternal Auschwitz for those 'few' truly evil ones. But yes, hell is a vile notion and is slowly going the way of stoning ones children.

And does the ex-spouse get to hang around with the old partner? And what about that secretary the guy talked into giving him a BJ?

How come these questions are never asked? Keep drinking the kool-aid of heaven that is being passed around and shut up?

Part of why they don't talk about it much is that from the very few verses that say anything of substance about 'heaven' one has to conclude that humans pretty much are lobotomized upon entering heaven per the 2 below verses. How does one not cry for the rebellious child or sibling that clearly denied their maker god, if one believes in that eternal Auschwitz? How does one just walk away from that spouse that one loved for up to decades pretending that they don't have that relationship? Answer: lobotomy

Revelation 21:4 “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
Mt 22:30 “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.”

A couple other verses that touch on what will be there. Those first century Christians weren't very inventive. Yippy feasts and wine
Lk 22:18 “For I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes."
Lk 22:28-30 “You are those who have stood by Me in My trials; and just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom…”

Yep and what about people who have multiple marriages? Let's suppose the husband dies, the wife remarries, then the 2nd guy goes also & then a 3rd. When she dies does she have to stay married to all 3?
Again such questions have never been asked

As for Heaven - imagine that you are going away to say China - you are being shipped over there - wouldn't the first thing out of your mouth be, "What will i do over there? I can't speak the language. How can i make a living? Even if i can speak the language, will my skills be in demand? Can i make a living?"

Shouldn't people be asking these questions? Unless they think Heaven is one big retirement Home? God, the nice Sugar Daddy, will pay all the bills? Food, drink, living accommodations are all on God? Heaven is one big Freeloader country? Full of moochers?

Nothing! No one has ever bothered to ask such questions & of course religions more than happy to keep silent because they have zero clue. All the cheap promises are being made up - Heaven is just a nice fantasy & I am amazed that even the best of minds can't see that

 

[Learner]

Nothing! No one has ever bothered to ask such questions & of course religions more than happy to keep silent because they have zero clue. All the cheap promises are being made up - Heaven is just a nice fantasy & I am amazed that even the best of minds can't see that

Do you mean that ; When there are no questions asked first, you're bound not to get answers anyway - hence the keeping silent?
The best minds as you refer to are probably still asking questions to why existence is here. They don't know!

 

[Sarpedon]

Your objections are stupid. There's no need for an economy in heaven. Christians have always defined heaven as a place of continuous rapturous joy, where souls are constantly in a state of religious ecstasy. There are no activities other than religious worship, because no one would want to do anything else.

This is not the way to argue against religion. Of course, you aren't arguing against religion, you are arguing in favor of your religion, so you reject other people's made up nonsense but don't bother to question your own.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Your objections are stupid. There's no need for an economy in heaven.

But Jesus spoke a lot about 'treasures' in Heaven. And the place is made of precious stones, gigantic pearls, gold streets. Many Christains I have known are expecting buckets and chests of gold and jewels when they get there. The plenty made available as rewards for doing without here on Earth. Not MUCH of a reward, of course, if gold is so common it's a building material, but it's not like it needs to stand up to scrutiny.

 

[funinspace]

Your objections are stupid. There's no need for an economy in heaven.

But Jesus spoke a lot about 'treasures' in Heaven. And the place is made of precious stones, gigantic pearls, gold streets. Many Christains I have known are expecting buckets and chests of gold and jewels when they get there. The plenty made available as rewards for doing without here on Earth. Not MUCH of a reward, of course, if gold is so common it's a building material, but it's not like it needs to stand up to scrutiny.

LOL...kind of reminds me of Meatloaf's "Paradise By The Dashboard Light":

"I couldn't take it any longer
Lord I was crazed
And when the feeling came upon me
Like a tidal wave
I started swearing to my god
And on my mother's grave
That I would love you to the end of time
I swore I would love you to the end of time

So now I'm praying for the end of time
To hurry up and arrive
'Cause if I gotta spend another minute with you
I don't think that I can really survive
I'll never break my promise or forget my vow
But God only knows what I can do right now
I'm praying for the end of time
It's all I can do (ooh, ooh)
I'm praying for the end of time
So I can end my time with you"

 

[Ramaraksha]

Your objections are stupid. There's no need for an economy in heaven. Christians have always defined heaven as a place of continuous rapturous joy, where souls are constantly in a state of religious ecstasy. There are no activities other than religious worship, because no one would want to do anything else.

This is not the way to argue against religion. Of course, you aren't arguing against religion, you are arguing in favor of your religion, so you reject other people's made up nonsense but don't bother to question your own.

Hillarious! This is God's Grand Plan? Whole bunch of people praising Him? Telling him what a great guy he is? People are like on drugs or something?
Can you really be this brainwashed?
Just a religion happy to tell you what you want to hear

Do you really think God made this huge universe and us - "go live a few years down on earth and then for the rest of eternity you get to tell me what a great guy I am"!!!

God is that simple-minded?

Guess who is?

Can't believe in the 21st century that i am reading this - where is your education?

Sir, these ideas came from earth - they used the local king as their template for God - the King demanded obedience and loyalty. He rewarded people accordingly(heaven) & if you didn't grovel - you got hell - very simple ideas
It paid to praise the King - be on his good side - that's all these ideas are

 

[Ramaraksha]

Your objections are stupid. There's no need for an economy in heaven.

But Jesus spoke a lot about 'treasures' in Heaven. And the place is made of precious stones, gigantic pearls, gold streets. Many Christains I have known are expecting buckets and chests of gold and jewels when they get there. The plenty made available as rewards for doing without here on Earth. Not MUCH of a reward, of course, if gold is so common it's a building material, but it's not like it needs to stand up to scrutiny.

Yep and all Free - that is the magic word - the lazy, the weak drool over such words
Here on earth, one has to work hard if we want anything good in life - we teach our kids that - never take anything for free - always pay your way
But the religion that is followed teaches the total opposite - gold, jewels all because you joined the "right" religion!
Cheap promises made by religion running the best Ponzi-Scheme ever!

 

[Ramaraksha]

Nothing! No one has ever bothered to ask such questions & of course religions more than happy to keep silent because they have zero clue. All the cheap promises are being made up - Heaven is just a nice fantasy & I am amazed that even the best of minds can't see that

Do you mean that ; When there are no questions asked first, you're bound not to get answers anyway - hence the keeping silent?
The best minds as you refer to are probably still asking questions to why existence is here. They don't know!

Well the questions i had in mind were more prosaic - more on the cheap promises that religions make - they want you to convert, so there is an incentive to lie, to tell people what they want to hear
What do people want to hear? That there is life after death & so religions are more than happy to promise that - eternal life, the easy life of sitting around doing nothing, enjoy the easy good life - all because you joined the "right" religion

Can't believe that the best of minds fall for such cheap promises but they do

How about asking some questions like: How do i make a living? What kind of work would the maker of the Universe might have? I can't think of any, so, nothing? Are there billions of people right now sitting around doing nothing? Snoring away eternity?
What about a guy who dies in an accident? His family is fighting for their lives - they will be going thru hell for the next few years - is the guy enjoying heaven?
The grandson is lost in the forest, the grandpa is enjoying cake in heaven?
Is Heaven full of callous, uncaring people?

 

[Sarpedon]

Hinduism promises magical powers for performing ascetic feats. Which, in my opinion seems to be directly contrary to the idea of self-denial. Hey, if I self-deny for long enough, I'll be able to roast people with fireballs.

 

[Ramaraksha]

Hinduism promises magical powers for performing ascetic feats. Which, in my opinion seems to be directly contrary to the idea of self-denial. Hey, if I self-deny for long enough, I'll be able to roast people with fireballs.

Lots of people promise or do lots of things - there are people who pray to Satan - and you should talk - didn't your God turn water into wine?

I don't believe in magic powers - there is no such thing but the weak drool over it, which is why religious books are full of magic and miracles

Life is harsh, difficult but that doesn't mean Heaven is some sort of gateway to the easy life

You want the easy life, religion is more than happy to tell you what you wanted to hear - just like Madoff made people happy by producing fake account statement - the "great returns" that made people happy existed only on paper

Use your education - are there billions of people doing nothing but sitting around in heaven? Praising God? Is that a Job? That is what the maker of the universe wants? Billions of people standing around telling him what a great guy he is? And pray tell, why even create this earth and the people? Why not create these freeloaders and courtiers right in heaven? Billions? He can create Trillions! And so he just sits there and everyone sings his praises?

I am just speechless

 

[Sarpedon]

When I left Christianity I briefly considered Hinduism. If you think carefully, you will find that there's no more reason to be a Hindu than a Christian. Simply preferring one set of beliefs over another is not valid.

 

[Ramaraksha]

When I left Christianity I briefly considered Hinduism. If you think carefully, you will find that there's no more reason to be a Hindu than a Christian. Simply preferring one set of beliefs over another is not valid.

These are just ideas that's all - we are human beings all are born Atheists - but join one religion or other growing up. Hinduism doesn't stress religion that much - one must be a good person, that is more important
The main difference obviously is what happens after death - the concept of reincarnation, obviously, has been abused by the west since they don't teach it. It makes people happy to know that after this world they will get to enjoy a cushy retired life in the sky
What makes me sad is that there is no evidence for it, at least consider that these religions are just saying things to make people happy
Conversion is their goal and if saying nice things get you to convert, they are happy to do so, just as Madoff was quite happy to make easy promises
Why not? He didn't have anything to lose, neither do these religions

Hinduism refuses to play this game - the concept of Reincarnation is nothing but saying we must choose life here on this earth, not build fancy castles in the sky. It is tempting to run away - it's like i don't want to work, as soon as i quit, some rich guy will give me millions & i will enjoy the good life(Heaven)
What Hinduism is saying there is no rich guy, you want to eat, live, you have to work
Unfortunately not many people like such harsh words

That is why I say Reincarnation is for the Strong, the Warrior, those who choose to work, stand on their own two feet. Heaven is for the weak, the coward, shameless enough to simply freeload off someone else. The only way these people get their heaven is if they come back as pets - dogs, cats, pigs - their owner will take nice care of them - they get their heaven!

See my post - my answer to steve jobs coming back hahaha as a chinese worker cartoon

 

[Sarpedon]

Most people don't choose their religions; they are indocrinated into them. They then go to any length to justify their beliefs.

Reincarnation is for the Warrior? Only if you are born into the Kshatriya caste.

I find it amusing that you ignore all kinds of things about your religion, but then abuse others for the tiny foibles of theirs.

 

[Ramaraksha]

Most people don't choose their religions; they are indocrinated into them. They then go to any length to justify their beliefs.
Reincarnation is for the Warrior? Only if you are born into the Kshatriya caste.
I find it amusing that you ignore all kinds of things about your religion, but then abuse others for the tiny foibles of theirs.

What all? Casteism? Why were jews hated for centuries and almost wiped out off the planet? Take a look at the history of religions like christianity and islam - how many mass killings? tiny foibles, indeed. I guess as long as bad things happen in history we can ignore them?

I always say if the Buddha had been born in Christian or Muslim lands he would have been branded a heretic and tortured to death! His writings burnt, his followers killed! There would be no such thing as Buddhism today! There is a reason why Hindu India is home to half the world's top religions - it is a democratic faith. And there is a reason why only one religion each came out of Christian and Muslim lands - these are communist religions. They simply killed anyone who dared to question the faith and come up with new ideas as the Buddha did
Again, not so tiny foibles - as they say dead men tell no tales

Finally - a Warrior is a single-mother doing two jobs raising a family. A warrior is a journalist exposing the corrupt. A warrior is one who goes to the site of a hurricane to help the injured. A warrior is a researcher spending days and nights trying to find a cure, raising funds for a cure. A Warrior is a doctor working 18 hours a day when disaster strikes

That is what Reincarnation is all about - one can either quit or come back and fight. It has nothing to do with religion - everyone gets the same choice - Hinduism alone stressed the need to come back, that's all

Finally, it is not to be taken as an attack on religions - the way you posted i see that you are not an Atheist as you say you are? This is about attacking ideas. The Reincarnation idea came from Hinduism, that's all - plenty of Hindus hope for heaven - my ideas apply to them as well

 

[sharon45]

The grandson is lost in the forest, the grandpa is enjoying cake in heaven?

Ha, more like grandpa enjoying watching his grandson lost in the forest.

Is Heaven full of callous, uncaring people?

Sure, it ought to be, since it is ruled over by a cruel monster.

 

[sharon45]

The only way these people get their heaven is if they come back as pets - dogs, cats, pigs - their owner will take nice care of them - they get their heaven!

Uh, not quite what they had in mind.

 

[Learner]

Well the questions i had in mind were more prosaic - more on the cheap promises that religions make - they want you to convert, so there is an incentive to lie, to tell people what they want to hear
What do people want to hear? That there is life after death & so religions are more than happy to promise that - eternal life, the easy life of sitting around doing nothing, enjoy the easy good life - all because you joined the "right" religion

I actually agree that in some circumstances to people being as individuals with their OWN personal agendas would have the "incentives to lie" but not for the sake of the belief itself because this is quite 'contradictary' to the faith. As certain humans do; the notion to have the "incentive to lie" could/should therefore be said of "some" Budhists, Hindus etc to do the same, contrary to their respected faiths. This pretty much applies to every group which also reminds me of what we sometimes see in this day and age of politics too.

Can't believe that the best of minds fall for such cheap promises but they do

Well these people seem to see something you don't in regards to different perspectives.

How about asking some questions like: How do i make a living? What kind of work would the maker of the Universe might have? I can't think of any, so, nothing? Are there billions of people right now sitting around doing nothing? Snoring away eternity?

We just see things differently Ram. If you don't make a living on earth you die. According to the Christian faith..eternity is not forced upon you and would definitely not suit someone who is for the wrong reason so frightfully concerned with some sort of notion to an eternal boredom for lack of better words.

What about a guy who dies in an accident? His family is fighting for their lives - they will be going thru hell for the next few years - is the guy enjoying heaven?
The grandson is lost in the forest, the grandpa is enjoying cake in heaven?
Is Heaven full of callous, uncaring people?

Well you have your view in all fairness. I just say all groups of faith experience loss and the fate of the grandpa -no longer in the picture- and where he is believed to end up is not an issue in my own opinion.

 

[iolo]

What is Kool-Aid? I've been hearing and reading the expression for many years, but I live in foreign parts, and really would like to know.