Come Hell or High Water: You go, Milo!

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Wow.

The speakers are all still free to show up and speak as private citizens.

It is amazing how entitled the right-wing is sometimes to think they can just get free money for doing nothing and when they don't get it because the don't follow the rules, pretend their rights are being taken away--false flag snowflakes.

I guess this works when you are trying to draw attention and build a movement of alt-righters and other assorted Nazis.

So I repeat...

"You are completely missing the point... on purpose????

It is about Berkeley, a public government funded university, selecting on political grounds which speakers they allow to give talks in their auditoriums."

Students at public universities should be able to invite speakers of any political persuasion they wish to hear.

This has already been addressed in several posts by myself and others. I recommend you read, understand and respond to Arctish's post, for example.

You are either completely missing the point or pretending.

 

[laughing dog]

If the University cannot guarantee the safety of the participants to the degree that the sponsors wish, then when the sponsors cancel, it is not due to the university making selections on political grounds. Now, if someone can show that the UC Berkeley in this case was not doing an adequate job of security (even though they claim to be allocating $ 1million dollars for those events), then someone might have a point. Otherwise, the claim that the university is making selections on political grounds is without merit.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I thought the issue was that Berkeley thinks it cannot provide adequate security to insure the safety of all participants.

Public safety is the responsibility of city, county, and/or state police. If Berkeley doesn't think it is capable then it is their responsibility to contact the appropriate agency. Berkeley's responsibility is to not concede to the demands of violent extremists.

So any Berkeley student group should be able to force the univ to assume liability for any event the students dream up?

Is the university allowed to establish guidelines for safety?

 

[skepticalbip]

So I repeat...

"You are completely missing the point... on purpose????

It is about Berkeley, a public government funded university, selecting on political grounds which speakers they allow to give talks in their auditoriums."

Students at public universities should be able to invite speakers of any political persuasion they wish to hear.

This has already been addressed in several posts by myself and others. I recommend you read, understand and respond to Arctish's post, for example.

You are either completely missing the point or pretending.

Yes I have read all that and it misses the point.

Let's assume that it was Bernie Sanders that was invited to speak and there was a violent group of neonazis that were promising to protest. Do you think Berkeley would cancel the talk or do you think they would stand up to their responsibility of insuring he could speak to the students by insuring whatever security was necessary? Personally, I think Bernie would be able to give his talk even though there were neonazis outside.

I would hope to hell that they would see that there was security in place to quash the neonazis if they acted up. The same should apply here... Berkeley should see that whoever (left, right, or middle) is invited to speak by the students should be insured the ability to speak.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

This has already been addressed in several posts by myself and others. I recommend you read, understand and respond to Arctish's post, for example.

You are either completely missing the point or pretending.

Yes I have read all that and it misses the point.

Let's test that claim.

Let's assume that it was Bernie Sanders that was invited to speak and there was a violent group of neonazis that were promising to protest. Do you think Berkeley would cancel --

Full stop. Nope, you are still either not getting it or pretending.

I still recommend that you go back and read Arctish's post. For that matter, to the general reader, I recommend the same, since it is possible skepticalbip is propagandizing this issue.

 

[skepticalbip]

Yes I have read all that and it misses the point.

Let's test that claim.

Let's assume that it was Bernie Sanders that was invited to speak and there was a violent group of neonazis that were promising to protest. Do you think Berkeley would cancel --

Full stop. Nope, you are still either not getting it or pretending.

I still recommend that you go back and read Arctish's post. For that matter, to the general reader, I recommend the same, since it is possible skepticalbip is propagandizing this issue.

As I said, I read it. It gave sections from Berkeley administration's statement. They conflict with what the student group stated.

 

[laughing dog]

Public safety is the responsibility of city, county, and/or state police. If Berkeley doesn't think it is capable then it is their responsibility to contact the appropriate agency.

Are you under the impression that city, country and/or state police automatically devote the requested amount of person power for security at campus events? If you are, then either California is different than any other state when I have lived or you do not know how this is done.

Berkeley's responsibility is to not concede to the demands of violent extremists.

At any cost? Wow.

This has already been addressed in several posts by myself and others. I recommend you read, understand and respond to Arctish's post, for example.

You are either completely missing the point or pretending.

Yes I have read all that and it misses the point.

Let's assume that it was Bernie Sanders that was invited to speak and there was a violent group of neonazis that were promising to protest. Do you think Berkeley would cancel the talk or do you think they would stand up to their responsibility of insuring he could speak to the students by insuring whatever security was necessary? Personally, I think Bernie would be able to give his talk even though there were neonazis outside.

That is not evidence about the decision-making at UC Berkeley. It is evidence of your personal biases.

[
I would hope to hell that they would see that there was security in place to quash the neonazis if they acted up. The same should apply here... Berkeley should see that whoever (left, right, or middle) is invited to speak by the students should be insured the ability to speak.

At any cost? You do realize that funds used to protect people could be used for other purposes such as adding to the library resources or reducing class sizes.

 

[skepticalbip]

Are you under the impression that city, country and/or state police automatically devote the requested amount of person power for security at campus events? If you are, then either California is different than any other state when I have lived or you do not know how this is done.

Berkeley's responsibility is to not concede to the demands of violent extremists.

At any cost? Wow.

This has already been addressed in several posts by myself and others. I recommend you read, understand and respond to Arctish's post, for example.

You are either completely missing the point or pretending.

Yes I have read all that and it misses the point.

Let's assume that it was Bernie Sanders that was invited to speak and there was a violent group of neonazis that were promising to protest. Do you think Berkeley would cancel the talk or do you think they would stand up to their responsibility of insuring he could speak to the students by insuring whatever security was necessary? Personally, I think Bernie would be able to give his talk even though there were neonazis outside.

That is not evidence about the decision-making at UC Berkeley. It is evidence of your personal biases.

[
I would hope to hell that they would see that there was security in place to quash the neonazis if they acted up. The same should apply here... Berkeley should see that whoever (left, right, or middle) is invited to speak by the students should be insured the ability to speak.

At any cost? You do realize that funds used to protect people could be used for other purposes such as adding to the library resources or reducing class sizes.

You are confusing UC Berkeley for the city of Berkeley, Alameda County, and the State of California. It is the responsibility of city, county, and state police to control and/or stop violent groups - regardless of the political leanings of the violent extremist group.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Berkeley Campus Police:

Special Event and Police Services Request
The UC Police is responsible for approving Special Events held on campus. Event planners must complete the Police Services Request form (PDF)
UCPD's Special Events Unit will grant permission for all campus events and will determine whether an event must be staffed by security personnel.

Our special events range from athletic events (300 to 85,000 spectators) concerts, dances, benefit events, University and Campus events, VIP visits, and other one-time activities.

https://ucpd.berkeley.edu/operations/special-event-and-police-services-request

I know police are generally right-wing authoritarian, but their requirement on their webpage does not seem to have any political bias.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

So any Berkeley student group should be able to force the univ to assume liability for any event the students dream up?

Is the university allowed to establish guidelines for safety?

Guidelines for safety should not preclude free speech, and especially polite and non-aggressive free speech. Let's not lose track of who causes the expense. Nobody believes that Ben Shapiro, Ann Coulter or Milo will physically attack anybody, nor are they likely to bring gangs of thugs with them. It is the Antifa people who are threatening violence and creating the security expense.

 

[skepticalbip]

Berkeley Campus Police:

Special Event and Police Services Request
The UC Police is responsible for approving Special Events held on campus. Event planners must complete the Police Services Request form (PDF)
UCPD's Special Events Unit will grant permission for all campus events and will determine whether an event must be staffed by security personnel.

Our special events range from athletic events (300 to 85,000 spectators) concerts, dances, benefit events, University and Campus events, VIP visits, and other one-time activities.

https://ucpd.berkeley.edu/operations/special-event-and-police-services-request

Is there a point here? Of course UC has campus cops like malls have mall cops.

This does not address how large, violent, disruptive mobs are handled. UC does not hire hundreds of new campus cops to handle such mobs, they call on those agencies that are responsible.

Oh, and the UC cops had approved the event.

 

[Mumbles]

from the op:

The “Free Speech Week” had been planned and approved, organized by Berkeley students and approved by Berkeley. Several speakers had already been lined up and confirmed. It was canceled by Berkeley the day before it was scheduled to began.

Please. Some of the "scheduled speakers" said they hadn't even been invited to his little event. What kind of shitty planning is that? Here's a nice source:

But it is unclear whether the major events will take place. UC Berkeley officials have said the Berkeley Patriot, the newspaper group working with Yiannopoulos, lost the ability to rent Zellerbach Auditorium and Wheeler Hall because it did not pay the necessary fees, or complete security forms required by police, by the deadline of 5 p.m. on Sept. 15. So, if Bannon and Coulter want to speak, they will have to do it outdoors in Lower Sproul Plaza, which the student group has reserved for Sept. 26, according to Dan Mogulof, a university spokesman.

...

The rhetoric swirling around “Free Speech Week” resembles the rhetoric used when Coulter was planning to come to Berkeley in April. The university, now, like then, has said it has certain protocols all student groups must follow in order to ensure that speakers, observers, and bystanders are safe during talks and events. These include providing adequate notification of events, enough time to coordinate with police, evidence such as emails or signed contracts that show the speakers will actually show up, an insurance policy, and deposits for the rented halls, according to various emails by Mogulof.

 

[laughing dog]

[
You are confusing UC Berkeley for the city of Berkeley, Alameda County, and the State of California. It is the responsibility of city, county, and state police to control and/or stop violent groups - regardless of the political leanings of the violent extremist group.

I am confusing nothing. Typically, the city, county or state police CHARGE universities for their services when a large number of officers are needed. Do you know if that is true or not in California?

Do you feel that UC Berkeley should provide the necessary security regardless of the cost? A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Milo spoke to that. He claims they got the invite list instead of confirmed list because they demanded the list giving too little time to provide it. He claims the school made them jump through many hoops that others are not asked to etc. Milo saying it so can't say if that is true or not.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Someone with a political agenda claimed something political happened. That is entirely expected.

 

[WAB]

Berkeley Campus Police:

Special Event and Police Services Request
The UC Police is responsible for approving Special Events held on campus. Event planners must complete the Police Services Request form (PDF)
UCPD's Special Events Unit will grant permission for all campus events and will determine whether an event must be staffed by security personnel.

Our special events range from athletic events (300 to 85,000 spectators) concerts, dances, benefit events, University and Campus events, VIP visits, and other one-time activities.

https://ucpd.berkeley.edu/operations/special-event-and-police-services-request

I know police are generally right-wing authoritarian, but their requirement on their webpage does not seem to have any political bias.

Wow. Had to step in here. I was happy repping and commenting privately, but...wow.

...police are generally right-wing authoritarian...

um. uhum. ahhh... aha! Ahhhha! AhhhhHHAAAA! AHHHAAAHHAAAAAAA!!!!!!

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The national Fraternal Order of Police sides on police-side, authoritarian and conservative all the time by endorsing such legislation. This past presidential election cycle they endorsed Trump and have 330,000 members. In a poll of over 50K random police officers across the country, well over 80% said they would vote for Trump. One must wonder why anyone would be dubious that police are authoritarian or conservative. The only semblance they have of leftish-ness is their labor unions, but again, their issue-based fraternity endorses conservative legislation. In return, many right-wing politicians exempt police and fire fighters from other collective bargaining restrictions they enact in their legislation. So, for example, they get treated differently than teachers.

If someone was to make an actual thread of real substance over a real issue, that would be it--how teachers are treated differently than police by the government because of right-wing politics.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Distraction from anything that matters.

We need universal health insurance. We need to stop killing Muslims continually.

We need to realize that the biggest danger to this nation is white supremacists.

Disagree--I think the religious nuts are a bigger danger than the white nuts.

 

[untermensche]

Distraction from anything that matters.

We need universal health insurance. We need to stop killing Muslims continually.

We need to realize that the biggest danger to this nation is white supremacists.

Disagree--I think the religious nuts are a bigger danger than the white nuts.

Because you are one of the white nuts.

 

[Mumbles]

Milo spoke to that. He claims they got the invite list instead of confirmed list because they demanded the list giving too little time to provide it. He claims the school made them jump through many hoops that others are not asked to etc. Milo saying it so can't say if that is true or not.

Yeah - how many four-day straight events do Universities get, that expect people not related to the University, require any Large space, and occur during the school year, does a school get? My guess is things in dedicated spaces like Hillel House, career fairs that are planned far in advance, possibly exams (also planned far in advance), a couple of other annual events...

These fools were still trying to set everything up ten days in advance? WHAT!?

"Oh, they're trying to block conservatives." Ben Shapiro was there on the 15th to give a lecture, so no.