Las Vegas Attack - Guard Shooting Timeline

[DBT]

I'm skeptical of the 200 rounds through the door. Spraying 200 rounds is not easy using magazines rather than a belt fed machine gun. Magazine capacity is usually 20 or thirty rounds, which have to be changed. Plus high velocity rounds heat the barrel very quickly, too hot to touch with 30 rounds fired in quick succession. 200 rounds in a short time would turn the barrel red hot and ruined.

He had 47 guns.

That's the total, but not all were in his Hotel room;

''Forty-seven guns were found in the suspected Las Vegas shooter's hotel suite and two homes, police said Tuesday night at a press conference.''

 

[barbos]

Don't see the need for conspiracy, but 200 shots into a door seems odd and excessive.

 

[blastula]

The hotel is disputing the new timeline. And there was, besides the security guard, also a maintenance worker on the floor who also reported the shooter to the hotel. Seems like cya by the hotel.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wo...vegas-shooter-opened-fire-on-crowd/ar-AAtjMix

 

[DBT]

Don't see the need for conspiracy, but 200 shots into a door seems odd and excessive.

It sounds absurd. But it may be true. Plus high velocity rounds don't just stop at the door. Unless the walls are cement blocks, it's likely that projectiles would penetrate into the rooms in the line of fire... 200 hundred rounds can do a lot of damage inside the hotel.

 

[barbos]

Don't see the need for conspiracy, but 200 shots into a door seems odd and excessive.

It sounds absurd. But it may be true. Plus high velocity rounds don't just stop at the door. Unless the walls are cement blocks, it's likely that projectiles would penetrate into the rooms in the line of fire... 200 hundred rounds can do a lot of damage inside the hotel.

I doubt that the shooter was worried about property damage, speaking of which, do these bullets have steel core? I would think that would be illegal.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I'm skeptical of the 200 rounds through the door. Spraying 200 rounds is not easy using magazines rather than a belt fed machine gun. Magazine capacity is usually 20 or thirty rounds, which have to be changed. Plus high velocity rounds heat the barrel very quickly, too hot to touch with 30 rounds fired in quick succession. 200 rounds in a short time would turn the barrel red hot and ruined.

Not with an M60 or an M240. Those belt-fed guns are DESIGNED for a long spray like that. Lean on the trigger for 15 to 20 seconds and that's 200 rounds right there.

Of course, I wouldn't be the first to point out that the sounds of Paddock's gun recorded from the concert has a firing rate remarkably similar to a belt-fed machinegun and remarkably dissimilar to an semi-automatic with a bump stock.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There is too much missing info in the timeline, things they should know by now. I wonder if the hotel delayed calling police for some self-serving reason.

I'm thinking something a lot simpler--somebody's timepiece was wrong.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There is too much missing info in the timeline, things they should know by now. I wonder if the hotel delayed calling police for some self-serving reason.

I'm thinking something a lot simpler--somebody's timepiece was wrong.

I'm thinking the massacre is a pretty good basis for the timeline. The guard allegedly heard drilling while checking a door alarm... which would likely have been before the massacre.

 

[Horatio Parker]

The hotel is disputing the new timeline. And there was, besides the security guard, also a maintenance worker on the floor who also reported the shooter to the hotel. Seems like cya by the hotel.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wo...vegas-shooter-opened-fire-on-crowd/ar-AAtjMix

I'm guessing the police made the assumption that the guard interrupted the attack, and the hotel was happy to let that story stand.

Between the hotels, they must have a lot of info on Paddock. But they don't seem to be saying much.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The hotel is disputing the new timeline. And there was, besides the security guard, also a maintenance worker on the floor who also reported the shooter to the hotel. Seems like cya by the hotel.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wo...vegas-shooter-opened-fire-on-crowd/ar-AAtjMix

I'm guessing the police made the assumption that the guard interrupted the attack, and the hotel was happy to let that story stand.

Between the hotels, they must have a lot of info on Paddock. But they don't seem to be saying much.

I find something interesting. Remember 9/11? Police and Firefighters went recklessly into unstable towers to 1) put out of a fire and 2) rescue people. Almost no thought to their own safety went through their heads. In Las Vegas, the police waited an hour to go into the room. Granted, the shooting was almost over by that point, and while I certainly can understand wanting to not die storming into the room, a sense of self-preservation is starting to sink in with the officers on site.

The on-site guard likely didn't have anything to defend himself with. But it seems odd how a black guy without a gun gets shot... but when an active shooter is mowing down dozens of people... no immediate action?

 

[coloradoatheist]

I'm guessing the police made the assumption that the guard interrupted the attack, and the hotel was happy to let that story stand.

Between the hotels, they must have a lot of info on Paddock. But they don't seem to be saying much.

I find something interesting. Remember 9/11? Police and Firefighters went recklessly into unstable towers to 1) put out of a fire and 2) rescue people. Almost no thought to their own safety went through their heads. In Las Vegas, the police waited an hour to go into the room. Granted, the shooting was almost over by that point, and while I certainly can understand wanting to not die storming into the room, a sense of self-preservation is starting to sink in with the officers on site.

The on-site guard likely didn't have anything to defend himself with. But it seems odd how a black guy without a gun gets shot... but when an active shooter is mowing down dozens of people... no immediate action?

I agreed with you on this in the most part. He stopped shooting. So how did they know he hadn't left his room and would starting mowing people down in the Casino? They need to find out why. Though on the other side if you get to a door that has 200 holes in it, an ambush against a machine gun is only seen in movies.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I'm guessing the police made the assumption that the guard interrupted the attack, and the hotel was happy to let that story stand.

Between the hotels, they must have a lot of info on Paddock. But they don't seem to be saying much.

I find something interesting. Remember 9/11? Police and Firefighters went recklessly into unstable towers to 1) put out of a fire and 2) rescue people. Almost no thought to their own safety went through their heads. In Las Vegas, the police waited an hour to go into the room. Granted, the shooting was almost over by that point, and while I certainly can understand wanting to not die storming into the room, a sense of self-preservation is starting to sink in with the officers on site.

The on-site guard likely didn't have anything to defend himself with. But it seems odd how a black guy without a gun gets shot... but when an active shooter is mowing down dozens of people... no immediate action?

They had to first clear the floor, and Paddocks door dominated the hallway. I'm guessing they had to go about everything carefully.

 

[RavenSky]

Though on the other side if you get to a door that has 200 holes in it, an ambush against a machine gun is only seen in movies.

I think that is Jimmy's point. When faced with an actual, no-mistake about it, shooter, they take their time to assess the situation and protect themselves (in spite of hundreds of innocent civilians getting shot).

But when it is an unarmed black man, they shoot him dead immediately because... they say... they are in fear for their lives.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I find something interesting. Remember 9/11? Police and Firefighters went recklessly into unstable towers to 1) put out of a fire and 2) rescue people. Almost no thought to their own safety went through their heads. In Las Vegas, the police waited an hour to go into the room. Granted, the shooting was almost over by that point, and while I certainly can understand wanting to not die storming into the room, a sense of self-preservation is starting to sink in with the officers on site.

The on-site guard likely didn't have anything to defend himself with. But it seems odd how a black guy without a gun gets shot... but when an active shooter is mowing down dozens of people... no immediate action?

They had to first clear the floor, and Paddocks door dominated the hallway. I'm guessing they had to go about everything carefully.

People are being cut down below. The number of people on the 32nd floor << number of people in the concert area. Yes, it would have required heroics to break in there, but isn't that what they signed up for?

 

[blastula]

The shooting had stopped before they got there, though I guess they wouldn't know if he was done.

 

[Horatio Parker]

They had to first clear the floor, and Paddocks door dominated the hallway. I'm guessing they had to go about everything carefully.

People are being cut down below. The number of people on the 32nd floor << number of people in the concert area. Yes, it would have required heroics to break in there, but isn't that what they signed up for?

People were not being cut down below. The firing was over when the cops got there, or soon after. Which probably contributed to the first timeline i.e. that the security's action stopped the shooting.

Also I dunno but wouldn't surprise me if advancing under fire is not part of police training.

 

[coloradoatheist]

The shooting had stopped before they got there, though I guess they wouldn't know if he was done.

And how did they know for sure he hadn't slipped out of the room? Or that there wasn't a partner helping him who left.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The shooting had stopped before they got there, though I guess they wouldn't know if he was done.

And how did they know for sure he hadn't slipped out of the room? Or that there wasn't a partner helping him who left.

OR for all we know the guy in the hallway was actually the shooter and the guy inside was framed which is what took so long. OR the second shooter was on a grassy knoll. Conspiracy theories are infinite but also sometimes true.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They had to first clear the floor, and Paddocks door dominated the hallway. I'm guessing they had to go about everything carefully.

Not just the floor. Bullets aren't constrained to fire horizontally, especially when you're using auto or psuedo-auto fire. If the guy was still alive assaulting would almost certainly cause a lot of bullets to be sprayed around. Since he wasn't shooting anymore at that point the sensible course of action is to evacuate before you assault.

There's also the little detail that simply trying to kick a door doesn't work nearly as well in reality as it does in Hollywood. There's a reason cops use battering rams or even explosive breaching.

 

[DBT]

I'm skeptical of the 200 rounds through the door. Spraying 200 rounds is not easy using magazines rather than a belt fed machine gun. Magazine capacity is usually 20 or thirty rounds, which have to be changed. Plus high velocity rounds heat the barrel very quickly, too hot to touch with 30 rounds fired in quick succession. 200 rounds in a short time would turn the barrel red hot and ruined.

Not with an M60 or an M240. Those belt-fed guns are DESIGNED for a long spray like that. Lean on the trigger for 15 to 20 seconds and that's 200 rounds right there.

Of course, I wouldn't be the first to point out that the sounds of Paddock's gun recorded from the concert has a firing rate remarkably similar to a belt-fed machinegun and remarkably dissimilar to an semi-automatic with a bump stock.

Yeah, designed, no doubt, but barrels still get hot after even 10 rounds fired in quick succession regardless of design, it's just physics.