Vote suppression -- now we have some evidence of the effects

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/voter-suppression-wisconsin-election-2016/

and it's pretty damning. Tens of thousands of people kept away from the polls.

 

[whichphilosophy]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/voter-suppression-wisconsin-election-2016/

and it's pretty damning. Tens of thousands of people kept away from the polls.

What is wrong with voters bringing some kind of ID to vote?

 

[bilby]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/voter-suppression-wisconsin-election-2016/

and it's pretty damning. Tens of thousands of people kept away from the polls.

What is wrong with voters bringing some kind of ID to vote?

It disenfranchises people who don't have any officially accepted ID. This is not a class of voter whose distribution is uniform across the political spectrum, so the result is to bias the results in favour of the parties and candidates whose supporters are most likely to have an accepted ID.

This is particularly problematic in the US south, but even in other parts of the country it is mainly black people who are unable to vote as a result of these rules; and the detailed implementation of these rules - which forms of ID are and are not considered acceptable - makes very clear that the unstated purpose is to minimise the vote amongst that section of the population.

Or perhaps it's purely coincidental that the effect of rules imposed just happens to burden black people more than it does whites. Just like it's purely coincidental that there are far fewer voting places in black dominated districts, leading to long lines and suppressed turnout.

It's amazing how many rules that have nothing to do with race turn out to completely coincidentally disfavour blacks in the US. If the people making the rules weren't so quick to assure us that it's all purely coincidental, it could almost be mistaken for systemic racism.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/voter-suppression-wisconsin-election-2016/

and it's pretty damning. Tens of thousands of people kept away from the polls.

What is wrong with voters bringing some kind of ID to vote?

What is wrong with my having to provide proof that I am a white person?

 

[braces_for_impact]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/voter-suppression-wisconsin-election-2016/

and it's pretty damning. Tens of thousands of people kept away from the polls.

What is wrong with voters bringing some kind of ID to vote?

Bilby pretty much nailed it, but I think your question just seems so damn reasonable on the face of it, and that is why it's misleading to so many people. It's a trivial thing for most people, ID. But for many people it's a complicated, tedious matter. Hell, my birthday is coming up and mine is due. It costs almost 50 bucks to simply renew my license in the state of Florida, and financially for me, that's a hurt. That's 50 bucks I'd really rather spend on food, or gas, or towards a bill. When people are asked what appears on the surface a perfectly reasonable question, they imagine their life, and it's a simple thing to do. Instead, you have to put yourself in their life circumstances. There are a variety of reasons people don't like to do this, and one that I have found is that to admit that such a trivial thing as ID can be a financial hurt for someone is to admit that blatant, systemic inequality exists.

Republicans complain that black people always voted for Democrats, because Democrats give them handouts. So, black people represent an unfair advantage to the Democrats in elections, so the GOP targets them without admitting they're targeting them in order to "level the playing field". This of course misrepresents Democrats, and shows the systemic racism present in the GOP that they spend so much time denying.

 

[Patooka]

My birth certificate was destroyed in a fire when I was 5 (1988) and I has my wallet stolen a few years back.

Getting replacement ID was as painful as masturbating with sandpaper. I was this close to saying fuck it and spend the rest of my life living in a cave somewhere. Not only does one need ID, you need the acceptable form of ID. "Acceptable form of ID" is a turn of phrase that can mean anything you want. Like "necessary expense", "owner's equity" or "some assembly required".

 

[Trausti]

What is wrong with voters bringing some kind of ID to vote?

It disenfranchises people who don't have any officially accepted ID. This is not a class of voter whose distribution is uniform across the political spectrum, so the result is to bias the results in favour of the parties and candidates whose supporters are most likely to have an accepted ID.

This is particularly problematic in the US south, but even in other parts of the country it is mainly black people who are unable to vote as a result of these rules; and the detailed implementation of these rules - which forms of ID are and are not considered acceptable - makes very clear that the unstated purpose is to minimise the vote amongst that section of the population.

Or perhaps it's purely coincidental that the effect of rules imposed just happens to burden black people more than it does whites. Just like it's purely coincidental that there are far fewer voting places in black dominated districts, leading to long lines and suppressed turnout.

It's amazing how many rules that have nothing to do with race turn out to completely coincidentally disfavour blacks in the US. If the people making the rules weren't so quick to assure us that it's all purely coincidental, it could almost be mistaken for systemic racism.

Why do liberals presume that black people are not smart enough to get an I.D.?

 

[braces_for_impact]

It disenfranchises people who don't have any officially accepted ID. This is not a class of voter whose distribution is uniform across the political spectrum, so the result is to bias the results in favour of the parties and candidates whose supporters are most likely to have an accepted ID.

This is particularly problematic in the US south, but even in other parts of the country it is mainly black people who are unable to vote as a result of these rules; and the detailed implementation of these rules - which forms of ID are and are not considered acceptable - makes very clear that the unstated purpose is to minimise the vote amongst that section of the population.

Or perhaps it's purely coincidental that the effect of rules imposed just happens to burden black people more than it does whites. Just like it's purely coincidental that there are far fewer voting places in black dominated districts, leading to long lines and suppressed turnout.

It's amazing how many rules that have nothing to do with race turn out to completely coincidentally disfavour blacks in the US. If the people making the rules weren't so quick to assure us that it's all purely coincidental, it could almost be mistaken for systemic racism.

Why do liberals presume that black people are not smart enough to get an I.D.?

Why would some liberals "do" that? I don't know. Why do Conservatives so often create strawmen in an attempt to turn racial issues back around and deflect their own responsibility?

 

[Trausti]

Why do liberals presume that black people are not smart enough to get an I.D.?

Why would some liberals "do" that? I don't know. Why do Conservatives so often create strawmen in an attempt to turn racial issues back around and deflect their own responsibility?

That video must have hit a nerve.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[laughing dog]

Why would some liberals "do" that? I don't know. Why do Conservatives so often create strawmen in an attempt to turn racial issues back around and deflect their own responsibility?

That video must have hit a nerve.

Obviously it hit yours.

 

[Trausti]

That video must have hit a nerve.

Obviously it hit yours.

It did. Why do liberals view black people as helpless children? Does it give them a sense of moral superiority? Incredible condescension.

 

[laughing dog]

Obviously it hit yours.

It did. Why do liberals view black people as helpless children?

Perhaps you should do a study instead of watching Fox news clips.

Does it give them a sense of moral superiority? Incredible condescension.

Maybe. What gives you your sense of moral superiority and incredible condescension?

 

[Trausti]

It did. Why do liberals view black people as helpless children?

Perhaps you should do a study instead of watching Fox news clips.

Does it give them a sense of moral superiority? Incredible condescension.

Maybe. What gives you your sense of moral superiority and incredible condescension?

You don't really a response, do you? Just personal attacks. All ya got.

 

[laughing dog]

Perhaps you should do a study instead of watching Fox news clips.

Does it give them a sense of moral superiority? Incredible condescension.

Maybe. What gives you your sense of moral superiority and incredible condescension?

You don't really a response, do you? Just personal attacks. All ya got.

The irony of that response is truly amazing - you post a "gotcha" clip from Fox news and generalize an attack on "liberals".

This is from the start of the OP article. After you have read it, do you this woman should have been effectively disenfranchised given the specifics of her situation?

You can’t say Andrea Anthony didn’t try. A 37-year-old African American woman with an infectious smile, Anthony had voted in every major election since she was 18. On November 8, 2016, she went to the Clinton Rose Senior Center, her polling site on the predominantly black north side of Milwaukee, to cast a ballot for Hillary Clinton. “Voting is important to me because I know I have a little, teeny, tiny voice, but that is a way for it to be heard,” she said. “Even though it’s one vote, I feel it needs to count.”

She’d lost her driver’s license a few days earlier, but she came prepared with an expired Wisconsin state ID and proof of residency. A poll worker confirmed she was registered to vote at her current address. But this was Wisconsin’s first major election that required voters—even those who were already registered—to present a current driver’s license, passport, or state or military ID to cast a ballot. Anthony couldn’t, and so she wasn’t able to vote.

The poll worker gave her a provisional ballot instead. It would be counted only if she went to the Department of Motor Vehicles to get a new ID and then to the city clerk’s office to confirm her vote, all within 72 hours of Election Day. But Anthony couldn’t take time off from her job as an administrative assistant at a housing management company, and she had five kids and two grandkids to look after. For the first time in her life, her vote wasn’t counted.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why do liberals presume that black people are not smart enough to get an I.D.?

It's not a matter of intelligence. ID rules are intended to disenfranchise the poor.

 

[braces_for_impact]

Obviously it hit yours.

It did. Why do liberals view black people as helpless children? Does it give them a sense of moral superiority? Incredible condescension.

No, this is the straw man I mentioned earlier. Let me walk you through it. Thus far, you have indicated that "liberals" think all people of color are stupid and as helpless as children. Do you see where someone has said as much? I don't. It's certainly not my view. As a matter of fact, I'm white, and I am neither stupid nor helpless, nevertheless I still find renewing ID (not even establishing ID which is much more difficult) to be a bit of a stretch for me, financially. If someone speaks of lowering the challenges that present themselves to the poor in order to help them establish ID's or otherwise make voting easier for me, I do not think that it's a bunch of people guilty of lowering their expectations with respect to what I can and can not do, or how smart I am, or what that says about my character. It's simply an acknowledgement of my situation.

See, you didn't approach this thread with good arguments for voter ID, or to gather information, or even to facilitate a discussion on the merits or lack thereof for voter ID, you jumped in with this huge broad brush attacking "liberals" for being racist. None of this has anything to do with whether voter ID is a good idea or not. In fact, it has no bearing on this discussion at all unless someone here says that people of color are stupid or lack typical adult behavior necessary to establish the ID necessary to vote, should that become or remain, law. What you are doing is maligning the motives of people that are against having voter ID necessary to vote. Now what's that called when you do not address the actual arguments made but instead criticize the motives of the person that made the argument?

Let's Google that shit!

Oh look, first entry! Nailed it!

 

[Copernicus]

If you ask for an absentee ballot and mail it in, you don't need to show an ID in these states. The idea is to suppress Democratic votes, and conservatives have a greater tendency to vote by mail. It is also much easier to commit fraud with mail-in ballots.

I've seen these Republican straw man loaded questions before. They are part of a campaign of talking points that goes out over the right wing blogosphere. "Why do liberals think that blacks and hispanics are too stupid to get IDs?" I've seen that and similar questions repeated frequently in political discussion forums. Many of the folks doing this think that liberals have targeted them unfairly as racist, although the gerrymandering and vote suppression tactics are clearly aimed at racial and ethnic demographics that tend to vote for Democratic candidates.

I can no longer vote at a polling booth in the state of Washington, but Republicans have managed to dominate the election machinery in our blue state. When we still had voter polls, they imposed a picture ID law on us to try to filter out those who failed to bring one--usually minority voters. Now that we have mail-in ballots, that does tend to suppress minority voters, but the liberal voter base here is largely white and educated. If you are homeless, forget about voting. It's still possible, but not likely. Otherwise, you have to buy postage or know where the dropbox for your area is located. (Easy to find with a web browser, if you use one.) It may require a trip to get to it, even if you have a car. Or bus fare. I have to drive about five miles to get to the closest one, but I always make a point to vote. I used to just go a block away from my house and, before the ID law, they checked my signature. There was almost never any detectable voter fraud at the polls. My neighbor can fill out my ballot for me and drop it off, if he happens to intercept it. So committing fraud is easier, if people are into it.

 

[bilby]

It disenfranchises people who don't have any officially accepted ID. This is not a class of voter whose distribution is uniform across the political spectrum, so the result is to bias the results in favour of the parties and candidates whose supporters are most likely to have an accepted ID.

This is particularly problematic in the US south, but even in other parts of the country it is mainly black people who are unable to vote as a result of these rules; and the detailed implementation of these rules - which forms of ID are and are not considered acceptable - makes very clear that the unstated purpose is to minimise the vote amongst that section of the population.

Or perhaps it's purely coincidental that the effect of rules imposed just happens to burden black people more than it does whites. Just like it's purely coincidental that there are far fewer voting places in black dominated districts, leading to long lines and suppressed turnout.

It's amazing how many rules that have nothing to do with race turn out to completely coincidentally disfavour blacks in the US. If the people making the rules weren't so quick to assure us that it's all purely coincidental, it could almost be mistaken for systemic racism.

Why do liberals presume that black people are not smart enough to get an I.D.?

Is anyone (liberal or not) making that presumption? Until and unless someone does, your question is premature.

If that's something that happens in your video, you will need to elaborate; I don't watch videos online.

Or perhaps I should ask "Why are conservatives too stupid to avoid asking loaded and presumptuous questions?"

 

[whichphilosophy]

What is wrong with voters bringing some kind of ID to vote?

It disenfranchises people who don't have any officially accepted ID. This is not a class of voter whose distribution is uniform across the political spectrum, so the result is to bias the results in favour of the parties and candidates whose supporters are most likely to have an accepted ID.

This is particularly problematic in the US south, but even in other parts of the country it is mainly black people who are unable to vote as a result of these rules; and the detailed implementation of these rules - which forms of ID are and are not considered acceptable - makes very clear that the unstated purpose is to minimise the vote amongst that section of the population.

Or perhaps it's purely coincidental that the effect of rules imposed just happens to burden black people more than it does whites. Just like it's purely coincidental that there are far fewer voting places in black dominated districts, leading to long lines and suppressed turnout.

It's amazing how many rules that have nothing to do with race turn out to completely coincidentally disfavour blacks in the US. If the people making the rules weren't so quick to assure us that it's all purely coincidental, it could almost be mistaken for systemic racism.

It's impossible for a legal citizen not to have a legal ID and stupid not to keep it up to date. Racism has nothing to with it. Idiocy does. The article mentions one person who had out of date ID and some immediate relatives who appear just as stupid. The subject lady let it slip so whose fault is that.

 

[whichphilosophy]

What is wrong with voters bringing some kind of ID to vote?

What is wrong with my having to provide proof that I am a white person?

You need ID for a number of reasons.

Stops or reduces:
dead people voting
non-citizens voting
non-existent people voting
idiots who don't up their IDs voting

Proof of ID has nothing to do with black or white for Idiocy knows no colour