Is 3rd Edition causing the strife?

[Keith&Co.]

I wonder if a whole BUNCH of the Christains posting on the internet played Paladins in 3rd Edition AD&D?

I think it would explain a lot...

The paladin was introduced as a holy warrior, a champion of order and good, with a lawful good alignment, and serving a lawful and/or good god (usually both, sometimes Lawful Neutral, sometimes Neutral Good if the player talked really fast...). They were almost cartoonish clichés of the traditional concept of a goodly Christain Knight.
And the key thing here, they could lose their status as a Holy Warrior Of (Their) God, even if THEY did nothing wrong, but if someone in the party screwed things up.
If, for example, a party member was a cleric/assassin, and the Paladin only knew about the cleric, and knew NOTHING of the taking of lives, he could wake up one morning to find that his deity had abandoned him. His access to divine powers was sundered. His teeth chipped, his smile faltered, he could lose hit points to poison, his armor started to rust.

I keep seeing the faithful claim that Same Sex Marriage is an attack on traditional marriage, that it'll destroy the nuclear family, and so on. That makes no sense to me. My neighbors' behavior has no bearing on my marriage. The guy uphill from us could be screwing his wife, his boytoy, his mother, the family wombat, and/or an outboard motor for all of me, and none of it impacts whether or not my wife blames me for accidentally bleaching her dress when I did the laundry.
It doesn't change my relationship with my kids. No harm to my family infrastructure. MAYBE, extreme case, Oldest looks out the window and asks me, 'Why do people have candle-lit dinners with wombats?' that might put me on the spot to explain something I'm not terribly equipped for. But I would have the same problem if he asked me what the positions are for the 11 men on the field during a football game. "UM... Well, there's a quarterback, and a center, and an umpire, and.. Let me think. Two outfielders?"

So, the whole claim seems ludicrous to me. My marriage and family are in no danger, other than those dangers _I_ pose.

But I'm not a paladin. I wonder if the more toxic rants about 'The DANGER" come from people afraid that God will punish them for mere proximity to sin. That THEY can do everything right, everything in accord with their favorite interpretation of the Players King James Handbook, and still be held accountable for something being done without their knowledge, permission, cognizance, complicity, refereeing, or scorekeeping.

that would be scary. None of my Dungeon Masters ever gave paladins a chance to roll save versus the Thief, or the cleric raising zombies, or the wizard eating shellfish. They did evil, the paladin got bent over the barrel.

It's not terribly fair, but then, these people worship a pretty despicable God, so it's well within his mandate.

 

[ronburgundy]

I wonder if a whole BUNCH of the Christains posting on the internet played Paladins in 3rd Edition AD&D?

I think it would explain a lot...

The paladin was introduced as a holy warrior, a champion of order and good, with a lawful good alignment, and serving a lawful and/or good god (usually both, sometimes Lawful Neutral, sometimes Neutral Good if the player talked really fast...). They were almost cartoonish clichés of the traditional concept of a goodly Christain Knight.
And the key thing here, they could lose their status as a Holy Warrior Of (Their) God, even if THEY did nothing wrong, but if someone in the party screwed things up.
If, for example, a party member was a cleric/assassin, and the Paladin only knew about the cleric, and knew NOTHING of the taking of lives, he could wake up one morning to find that his deity had abandoned him. His access to divine powers was sundered. His teeth chipped, his smile faltered, he could lose hit points to poison, his armor started to rust.

I keep seeing the faithful claim that Same Sex Marriage is an attack on traditional marriage, that it'll destroy the nuclear family, and so on. That makes no sense to me. My neighbors' behavior has no bearing on my marriage. The guy uphill from us could be screwing his wife, his boytoy, his mother, the family wombat, and/or an outboard motor for all of me, and none of it impacts whether or not my wife blames me for accidentally bleaching her dress when I did the laundry.
It doesn't change my relationship with my kids. No harm to my family infrastructure. MAYBE, extreme case, Oldest looks out the window and asks me, 'Why do people have candle-lit dinners with wombats?' that might put me on the spot to explain something I'm not terribly equipped for. But I would have the same problem if he asked me what the positions are for the 11 men on the field during a football game. "UM... Well, there's a quarterback, and a center, and an umpire, and.. Let me think. Two outfielders?"

So, the whole claim seems ludicrous to me. My marriage and family are in no danger, other than those dangers _I_ pose.

But I'm not a paladin. I wonder if the more toxic rants about 'The DANGER" come from people afraid that God will punish them for mere proximity to sin. That THEY can do everything right, everything in accord with their favorite interpretation of the Players King James Handbook, and still be held accountable for something being done without their knowledge, permission, cognizance, complicity, refereeing, or scorekeeping.

that would be scary. None of my Dungeon Masters ever gave paladins a chance to roll save versus the Thief, or the cleric raising zombies, or the wizard eating shellfish. They did evil, the paladin got bent over the barrel.

It's not terribly fair, but then, these people worship a pretty despicable God, so it's well within his mandate.

I realize the OP is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but your last line is the real reason for such Christians. It's because they are actually following the Bible's clear mandate that his followers exert authoritarian control up to and including genocide to rid all of society of anything and anyone that goes against God's wishes.
Belief in despicable God leads people to act despicably.

 

[marc]

I think many of the christians who are like that would never play such an obviously satanic game. The DM obviously practices witchcraft anyway.

Long time ago I remember someone musing about how the more religious among the D&D players they knew tended to play assassins, thieves, and other evil characters. While the goths, wiccans, and others who didn't conform to whitebread chrisitan traditional values tended to favor playing paladins and other heroic characters. Would be interesting to see a study of player personality types (public and private personalities) vs the type of characters they play. Do they play a reflection of themselves, or dabble in the 'other side'?

Actually, thinking about it, some of the fundamentalist christians already live in a D&D world. They think magic and demons are real, that prayers have real world effects, and that they can detect alignment on others.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And the key thing here, they could lose their status as a Holy Warrior Of (Their) God, even if THEY did nothing wrong, but if someone in the party screwed things up.
If, for example, a party member was a cleric/assassin, and the Paladin only knew about the cleric, and knew NOTHING of the taking of lives, he could wake up one morning to find that his deity had abandoned him. His access to divine powers was sundered. His teeth chipped, his smile faltered, he could lose hit points to poison, his armor started to rust.

that would be scary. None of my Dungeon Masters ever gave paladins a chance to roll save versus the Thief, or the cleric raising zombies, or the wizard eating shellfish. They did evil, the paladin got bent over the barrel.

It's not terribly fair, but then, these people worship a pretty despicable God, so it's well within his mandate.

That's not how it's supposed to work. The Paladin's code is pretty strict but so long as he truly didn't know he's not going to fall. Turning a blind eye is another matter--if he should have known he's going to fall.

 

[Sarpedon]

<>

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I would just like to say that I played D&D as a child and I miss playing it. I've played various PC videogames that mimic it a little bit (Divinity Original Sin 2 being the latest) but none of them have captured the sheer fun of those old campaigns huddled around with a bunch of friends rolling dice and letting our imaginations run wild.

 

[Sarpedon]

You're never too old. Which is what I tell people when they find out I'm still playing at 40.

 

[James Brown]

I suspect that many of those opposed to same-sex marriage aren't worried about their own marriages either. I think it's a combination of two things:

1) While the person is confident that his own marriage is secure, other people are weaker in their faith, and more likely to be led astray by sinful temptations.

2) Showing concern for those "other people" allows one to adopt a legitimizing veneer of societal concern, when in fact they're really just squeamish about seeing two men kissing.

 

[Elixir]

It's not terribly fair, but then, these people worship a pretty despicable God, so it's well within his mandate.

I realize the OP is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but your last line is the real reason for such Christians. It's because they are actually following the Bible's clear mandate that his followers exert authoritarian control up to and including genocide to rid all of society of anything and anyone that goes against God's wishes.
Belief in despicable God leads people to act despicably.

All I can think of is Mark Twain's quote:
"God created man in his own image, and man has been returning the favor ever since."