What's the fuss about recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital?

[Lumpenproletariat]

To insist that Israel cannot claim Jerusalem as its capital is the same as saying Israel should not exist as a nation. If Israel is not entitled to Jerusalem, what is it entitled to?

The only explanation for the outrage is that we have to pander to the emotionalism of the Muslims who hate Israel and need this condemnation of Israel for the symbolism.

It seems to boil down to:

• Muslims/Palestinians hate Israel, existentially, as an essential basic element of their nature.

• Palestinians are inferior or subhuman and so must be pandered to, no matter what, because they are driven by emotion and hate, like an angry mob which understands only symbolism, and so cannot be reasoned with.

• Israelis are superior and so can be expected to humor the Palestinians, because those with understanding must give in to the angry mindless mob.


What else explains why we're letting symbolism override substance in this case?

 

[lpetrich]

To insist that Israel cannot claim Jerusalem as its capital is the same as saying Israel should not exist as a nation.

I don't see how that follows.

 

[Harry Bosch]

To insist that Israel cannot claim Jerusalem as its capital is the same as saying Israel should not exist as a nation. If Israel is not entitled to Jerusalem, what is it entitled to?

The only explanation for the outrage is that we have to pander to the emotionalism of the Muslims who hate Israel and need this condemnation of Israel for the symbolism.

It seems to boil down to:

• Muslims/Palestinians hate Israel, existentially, as an essential basic element of their nature.

• Palestinians are inferior or subhuman and so must be pandered to, no matter what, because they are driven by emotion and hate, like an angry mob which understands only symbolism, and so cannot be reasoned with.

• Israelis are superior and so can be expected to humor the Palestinians, because those with understanding must give in to the angry mindless mob.


What else explains why we're letting symbolism override substance in this case?

Well, Trump is suppose to be the greatest negotiator in the history of the world! And yet he ceded a huge point (movement of the embassy to Jerusalem) without getting any concession from Israel! He could have asked for freezing of settlements, allowing East Jerusalem to be Palestinian, or something.

 

[Patooka]

To insist that Israel cannot claim Jerusalem as its capital is the same as saying Israel should not exist as a nation.

Immediately followed with:

What else explains why we're letting symbolism override substance in this case?

Shows a distinct lack of cognitive reasoning on the premise of the thread. Personally, I'm in the "A plague on both your houses" camp in this argument; and yet I can still recognise that pandering specifically to one group in this issue is obviously inflammatory. Why do you need that pointed out?

 

[laughing dog]

To insist that Israel cannot claim Jerusalem as its capital is the same as saying Israel should not exist as a nation.

I don't see how that follows.

Welcome to Lumpen's world.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

To insist that Israel cannot claim Jerusalem as its capital is the same as saying Israel should not exist as a nation.

I don't see how that follows.

I don't see how this one is a thing either:

Muslims/Palestinians hate Israel, existentially, as an essential basic element of their nature.

 

[LordKiran]

• Muslims/Palestinians hate Israel, existentially, as an essential basic element of their nature.

• Palestinians are inferior or subhuman and so must be pandered to, no matter what, because they are driven by emotion and hate, like an angry mob which understands only symbolism, and so cannot be reasoned with.

Jesse Lee Peterson is that you?

 

[Elixir]

To insist that Israel cannot claim Jerusalem as its capital is the same as saying Israel should not exist as a nation.

I don't see how that follows.

It doesn't necessarily follow, but OTOH, maybe that would be a better idea than pandering to religious extremists.

 

[untermensche]

Can one be this blind to recent history?

The American pathology of knowing absolutely no history.

Jerusalem is a sacred city to Muslims and Palestinians.

This is a very controversial issue.

It is not just a Jewish city despite what the stupidest man in the world thinks.

 

[funinspace]

Yes, one can clearly be this blind to recent history

To insist that Israel cannot claim Jerusalem as its capital is the same as saying Israel should not exist as a nation.

I don't see how that follows.

What else explains why we're letting symbolism override substance in this case?

It is because the Son of Quetzalcoatl has poisoned their minds...

 

[Harry Bosch]

Can one be this blind to recent history?

The American pathology of knowing absolutely no history.

Jerusalem is a sacred city to Muslims and Palestinians.

This is a very controversial issue.

It is not just a Jewish city despite what the stupidest man in the world thinks.

Personally, I could care less about either side's religion. Just don't care. To me, the issue is simple. Jerusalem is roughly 61% Jewish, 39% Palestinian. Therefore, allow the Jewish section to remain in Israel, allow the Palestinian side to go to the West Bank; give all citizens remaining in the Jewish side equal citizenship.

 

[whollygoats]

Can one be this blind to recent history?

The American pathology of knowing absolutely no history.

Jerusalem is a sacred city to Muslims and Palestinians.

This is a very controversial issue.

It is not just a Jewish city despite what the stupidest man in the world thinks.

Personally, I could care less about either side's religion. Just don't care. To me, the issue is simple. Jerusalem is roughly 61% Jewish, 39% Palestinian. Therefore, allow the Jewish section to remain in Israel, allow the Palestinian side to go to the West Bank; give all citizens remaining in the Jewish side equal citizenship.

It's been done. Was done. Until the Israelis won a couple of wars and displaced the shared authority of the city with a unitary Israeli one. For some reason, the Israelis have been reluctant to return to that eminently equitable state of affairs.

 

[Trausti]

Can one be this blind to recent history?

The American pathology of knowing absolutely no history.

Jerusalem is a sacred city to Muslims and Palestinians.

This is a very controversial issue.

It is not just a Jewish city despite what the stupidest man in the world thinks.

Personally, I could care less about either side's religion. Just don't care. To me, the issue is simple. Jerusalem is roughly 61% Jewish, 39% Palestinian. Therefore, allow the Jewish section to remain in Israel, allow the Palestinian side to go to the West Bank; give all citizens remaining in the Jewish side equal citizenship.

It's been done. Was done. Until the Israelis won a couple of wars and displaced the shared authority of the city with a unitary Israeli one. For some reason, the Israelis have been reluctant to return to that eminently equitable state of affairs.

To the victor go the spoils. Imagine if the Arabs hadn't attacked Israel?

 

[Arctish]

To the victor go the spoils.

...says the thief with loot in hand.

Imagine if the Arabs hadn't attacked Israel?

Sure. I imagine the Zionists would have seized even more land and turned even more Palestinians into refugees.

Now imagine if Zionists hadn't set out to create a Jewish State in a place where Jews were only ~10% of the population.

To insist that Israel cannot claim Jerusalem as its capital is the same as saying Israel should not exist as a nation.

I don't see how that follows.

Me neither.

 

[Jayjay]

To insist that Israel cannot claim Jerusalem as its capital is the same as saying Israel should not exist as a nation. If Israel is not entitled to Jerusalem, what is it entitled to?

That doesn't follow. The issue isn't that Israel can't choose its own capital; but that capital should be a city that's actually recognized as part of Israel. Half of Jerusalem is considered occupied territory by the most countries of the world, including America. It's inconsistent to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and at the same time not recognize it as part of Israel.

It's a bit as if Russia declared Alaska to be a Russian oblast. Should America recognize that too? Would non-recognition of such claims in any way indicate that Russia doesn't have right to exist as a nation?

 

[Jayjay]

It's been done. Was done. Until the Israelis won a couple of wars and displaced the shared authority of the city with a unitary Israeli one. For some reason, the Israelis have been reluctant to return to that eminently equitable state of affairs.

To the victor go the spoils. Imagine if the Arabs hadn't attacked Israel?

Then Israel would have attacked anyway, to get the spoils.

War should not be profitable for anyone, not the attacker or the defender. Any other rules incentivize war.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

To insist that Israel cannot claim Jerusalem as its capital is the same as saying Israel should not exist as a nation. If Israel is not entitled to Jerusalem, what is it entitled to?

Are you also onboard with Palestine claiming Jerusalem as its capital and us opening the Palestinian embassies there? Why not make it both nations' capital?

 

[Trausti]

It's been done. Was done. Until the Israelis won a couple of wars and displaced the shared authority of the city with a unitary Israeli one. For some reason, the Israelis have been reluctant to return to that eminently equitable state of affairs.

To the victor go the spoils. Imagine if the Arabs hadn't attacked Israel?

Then Israel would have attacked anyway, to get the spoils.

War should not be profitable for anyone, not the attacker or the defender. Any other rules incentivize war.

Then the Turks should return Anatolia to the Greeks, post haste.

 

[Arctish]

Now would be a good time for Israel to declare its borders.

 

[Jayjay]

Then Israel would have attacked anyway, to get the spoils.

War should not be profitable for anyone, not the attacker or the defender. Any other rules incentivize war.

Then the Turks should return Anatolia to the Greeks, post haste.

That's not an ongoing conflict. Cyprus would be a better example.