What is the actual free will humans have?

[untermensche]

I don't suffer fools very well.

That should be understood.

It should be, but then you'd have a real existential crisis on your hands...

What are you an expert in exactly young lady?

 

[fromderinside]

The "wiring" of the brain is to say it has wires.

It does not.

Now you are being foolish, Your conclusion is not relevant.

Wiring is an apt description of physical nature for neuronal processes from receptor to cortex and from cortex to effector, for inter cortical and inter thalami processes and the like. It may even be useful for construciting working models of those processes.

 

[untermensche]

The "wiring" of the brain is to say it has wires.

It does not.

Now you are being foolish, Your conclusion is not relevant.

Wiring is an apt description of physical nature for neuronal processes from receptor to cortex and from cortex to effector, for inter cortical and inter thalami processes and the like. It may even be useful for construciting working models of those processes.

It is a sloppy analogy that is not applicable. Have you ever held a brain? Looked at one under a microscope? No wires.

Understandings that flow from such sloppy understandings are worthless.

 

[beero1000]

I don't suffer fools very well.

That should be understood.

It should be, but then you'd have a real existential crisis on your hands...

What are you an expert in exactly young lady?

I guess we can just keep adding to the long list of things you don't do very well.

 

[untermensche]

What are you an expert in exactly young lady?

I guess we can just keep adding to the long list of things you don't do very well.

No. I am not very good with immature children.

They act as if they know something but when pressed know absolutely nothing.

They could't make a comment with actual content if their life depended on it.

They merely want to play along with the adults so I have to suffer them.

 

[bilby]

What are you an expert in exactly young lady?

I guess we can just keep adding to the long list of things you don't do very well.

No. I am not very good with immature children.

They act as if they know something but when pressed know absolutely nothing.

They could't make a comment with actual content if their life depended on it.

They merely want to play along with the adults so I have to suffer them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

 

[beero1000]

What are you an expert in exactly young lady?

I guess we can just keep adding to the long list of things you don't do very well.

No. I am not very good with immature children.

They act as if they know something but when pressed know absolutely nothing.

They could't make a comment with actual content if their life depended on it.

They merely want to play along with the adults so I have to suffer them.

It's definitely much easier to keep declaring victory when you can claim that your opponents don't know anything and aren't saying anything with actual content. I guess it's the 'adult' version of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling LALALALALALA.

 

[untermensche]

No. I am not very good with immature children.

They act as if they know something but when pressed know absolutely nothing.

They could't make a comment with actual content if their life depended on it.

They merely want to play along with the adults so I have to suffer them.

It's definitely much easier to keep declaring victory when you can claim that your opponents don't know anything and aren't saying anything with actual content. I guess it's the 'adult' version of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling LALALALALALA.

I do not declare victory. I address ideas with ideas, if any are presented. I address nonsense with what it deserves.

I wait for the first post from you with any substance on any topic.

But I suspect that may take decades.

 

[DBT]

The Babisky is a primitive reflex that can re-surface after brain damage and conscious control is diminished.

It is a non-functional movement.

The whole damn wiring of the brain has evolved to respond to sensory stimuli. That is what senses are for, to acquire information for the neural architecture to process and respond according to its multiple functions carried out by modular systems, fore-brain, mid- brain, brain stem/hind brain and numerous structures in between, each with a role to play and each contributing to the whole; a mental map of environment and self as a means of interaction - which is brain agency.

The "wiring" of the brain is to say it has wires.

It does not.

You know very well that in this context 'wiring' simply refers to the connections between cells, dendrites for information transmission, axons to signal muscle groups, etc.

Nor is this wiring merely there for decoration, as you imply. The cells and their connections, the wiring, dendrites, axons, glial cells, etc, has a role and purpose determined by its very architecture, a rabbit brain producing a different range of behaviours to the brain of a fox or a chimp or a human....which is brain agency, not magical autonomous consciousness,

 

[fromderinside]

The "wiring" of the brain is to say it has wires.

It does not.

Now you are being foolish, Your conclusion is not relevant.

Wiring is an apt description of physical nature for neuronal processes from receptor to cortex and from cortex to effector, for inter cortical and inter thalami processes and the like. It may even be useful for construciting working models of those processes.

It is a sloppy analogy that is not applicable. Have you ever held a brain? Looked at one under a microscope? No wires.

Understandings that flow from such sloppy understandings are worthless.

Actually I've used scanning electron microscopes. Those can show processes that act conductor lines, wires, to carry information from one neuron to others.

Obviously you've never read how a pencil stroke is like a resistor. Analogies often prove very useful and work reducing. When we are talking about information transmission where we are primarily interested in information flow analogies like wire for axon are very useful.

YOur petulent dismissing of ideas is remarkable.

 

[untermensche]

The "wiring" of the brain is to say it has wires.

It does not.

You know very well that in this context 'wiring' simply refers to the connections between cells, dendrites for information transmission, axons to signal muscle groups, etc.

There are no wired connections in the brain. A cell could have thousands to tens of thousands of other cells in contact with it. And when "excited" it will communicate with some and not with others. A great deal of control exists within the cell.

Have you ever even seen visualizations of brain activity?

Flashes of activity here, waves of activity there. Areas lighting up all over the place.

But to the subject with a brain it is all a seamless continuity of experience.

Millions of cells lighting up here and there. Waves of activity moving through millions of cells.

All perfectly synchronized.

And nobody has the slightest idea how this synchronicity of trillions of elements occurs.

 

[fromderinside]

Fobar. Smokey Stover the foo fighter and other nonsense. Vosh ricka tosh farno farno.

 

[untermensche]

Some go to great lengths to deny the evidence right before their eyes.

You cannot have complicated productions without complicated controls.

Pretending controls are not necessary is admitting you know nothing about any of them.

 

[DBT]

The "wiring" of the brain is to say it has wires.

It does not.

You know very well that in this context 'wiring' simply refers to the connections between cells, dendrites for information transmission, axons to signal muscle groups, etc.

There are no wired connections in the brain. A cell could have thousands to tens of thousands of other cells in contact with it. And when "excited" it will communicate with some and not with others. A great deal of control exists within the cell.

Have you ever even seen visualizations of brain activity?

Flashes of activity here, waves of activity there. Areas lighting up all over the place.

But to the subject with a brain it is all a seamless continuity of experience.

Millions of cells lighting up here and there. Waves of activity moving through millions of cells.

All perfectly synchronized.

And nobody has the slightest idea how this synchronicity of trillions of elements occurs.

Not true that 'nobody has the slightest idea' about brain function, however, according to you this activity is mere window dressing for your inexplicable autonomous consciousness you say is the real agent of decision making, a claim that has no evidence.... while, apparently, incapable of seeing the irony.

 

[untermensche]

There are no wired connections in the brain. A cell could have thousands to tens of thousands of other cells in contact with it. And when "excited" it will communicate with some and not with others. A great deal of control exists within the cell.

Have you ever even seen visualizations of brain activity?

Flashes of activity here, waves of activity there. Areas lighting up all over the place.

But to the subject with a brain it is all a seamless continuity of experience.

Millions of cells lighting up here and there. Waves of activity moving through millions of cells.

All perfectly synchronized.

And nobody has the slightest idea how this synchronicity of trillions of elements occurs.

Not true that 'nobody has the slightest idea' about brain function, however, according to you this activity is mere window dressing for your inexplicable autonomous consciousness you say is the real agent of decision making, a claim that has no evidence.... while, apparently, incapable of seeing the irony.

If a decision is made based on an examination of ideas it can in no way be called a reflexive decision. What reflex examines ideas?

And there is a lot of evidence this occurs all the time.

You negate all the evidence of your own experience. Very consistent evidence.

You somehow pretend it is not evidence.

 

[fromderinside]

Even tropisms are fitness proven. Reflexes are very far up the action scale for that. At the base of both are causes. Effects were selected. Looks pretty decisiony to me.

If one removes self from decisions are they any different? One must ask what is self? Is it a physical dimension or is it a communicating dimension reporting what was done and inserting self as a cause.

 

[DBT]

There are no wired connections in the brain. A cell could have thousands to tens of thousands of other cells in contact with it. And when "excited" it will communicate with some and not with others. A great deal of control exists within the cell.

Have you ever even seen visualizations of brain activity?

Flashes of activity here, waves of activity there. Areas lighting up all over the place.

But to the subject with a brain it is all a seamless continuity of experience.

Millions of cells lighting up here and there. Waves of activity moving through millions of cells.

All perfectly synchronized.

And nobody has the slightest idea how this synchronicity of trillions of elements occurs.

Not true that 'nobody has the slightest idea' about brain function, however, according to you this activity is mere window dressing for your inexplicable autonomous consciousness you say is the real agent of decision making, a claim that has no evidence.... while, apparently, incapable of seeing the irony.

If a decision is made based on an examination of ideas it can in no way be called a reflexive decision. What reflex examines ideas?

I said that it is functional decision making. The brain has evolved to acquire and process information and respond to its cues according to memory, which is past experience that informs what is good, what is bad, what is tasty, what is not...if you withhold an immediate reward a greater reward/profit is possible within this or that time frame.

The brain is a functional information processor and decision maker. Decision making is not free will.

 

[untermensche]

If a decision is made based on an examination of ideas it can in no way be called a reflexive decision. What reflex examines ideas?

I said that it is functional decision making.

You think labels are magic. I know.

But this requires actually thinking about something and not merely placing magic labels on things.

How can a brain have evolutionary mechanisms to mull over ideas?

The brain came first and ideas in language didn't come until much later.

The brain could not have evolved to deal with something that didn't even exist.

It is absurd to imagine the mulling over ideas is a reflex of some kind. Completely irrational.

 

[fromderinside]

Strawman

ad hoc ad hominem

irrelevant speculative query

The brain is evolved into may different Central Nervous System processing architectures.

Irrelevant. It didn't.

ah, the climax. A handwave.

Try addressing this point.

One must ask what is self? Is it a physical dimension or is it a communicating dimension reporting what was done and inserting self as a cause.

 

[untermensche]

The brain is evolved into may different Central Nervous System processing architectures.

So many ways you can pretend to know something.

Show me one of these "system processing architectures" and demonstrate it is actually doing something by explaining how it is doing it.

Show me how the brain creates an idea.