How much immigration is ideal?

[Jolly_Penguin]

How much immigration is too little? How much is too much? Setting aside legal vs illegal or which immigrants to bring in, what percentage of a nation's growth do you think should come from immigration?

Canada used to get half its popularion increase from immigration. Now it gets 3/4 of its increase that way. I don't know the number for the USA but I think it is lower. Japan hardly allows any (and has some problems as a result). The Philippines (where a lot of my family is from) allows immigrants but won't let non-filipinos practice law or own property in many areas.
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[Jayjay]

Half or less of population increase sounds about right from perspective of diversity. More than that and local cultures and genes will eventually wither away, but any less and you risk being too insular and stagnating like Japan.

As for economics, every citizen who pays more in taxes than he or she consumes is a positive for a country's economy, so you'd want to maximize that amount. That can't really be done without considering the quality of applicants.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It seems to me that it's dynamic.

I see no benefit from population growth. Steady seems better to me. As such, immigration should be set at whatever level is needed to keep the population from shrinking, but no limit should be put on spouse and child visas. (On the flip side, I would like to see stricter rules on what constitutes an acceptable relationship--I don't think mail order brides are a good idea. Perhaps something like at least 60 days total spent in the same metropolitan area, although they need not be continuous. That should be a complete non-issue for any legitimate relationship.)

 

[RVonse]

The OP is irrelevant unless Trump gets his wall or unless laws are changed to crack down on employer's who hire illegals. Neither of which can happen for political reasons.

So immigrants will be coming even more than they have...whether they are beneficial or not.

Get ready for a spanish speaking population in the near future.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

The OP is irrelevant unless Trump gets his wall or unless laws are changed to crack down on employer's who hire illegals. Neither of which can happen for political reasons.

So immigrants will be coming even more than they have...whether they are beneficial or not.

Get ready for a spanish speaking population in the near future.

I've already seen massive changes where I live here in Ontario. When I was a kid, I was the first Asian that most of my schoomates in gradeschool met. Today, white english speakers are less than half of us. I was at the doctor's office today and I didn't hear English until it was my turn to speak to the front desk and I am pretty certain I was the only person born in Canada there (including the white people; most who appear to be from eastern Europe). I don't see it as bad, but I can see why identitarians may. And I can also see how people may be concerned if they care about culture (I don't). I can tell you more about biryani than maple syrup.

 

[Axulus]

About 1% of the total country's population per year allowed as legal immigration seems reasonable.

The native birth rate seems irrelevant to this.

 

[dismal]

I'm going to say something along the lines of: the ideal for productive people who contribute more than they take is infinite and the ideal for people who take more than they contribute is zero.

 

[Malintent]

The OP is irrelevant unless Trump gets his wall or unless laws are changed to crack down on employer's who hire illegals. Neither of which can happen for political reasons.

... and economic reasons...
If the agriculture industry cracked down on the employment of illegal immigrants, you'd be paying $10 for an ear of corn and $20 for a loaf of bread... unless you couldn't afford it.. In which case you would starve to death along with giant swaths of our population.

So immigrants will be coming even more than they have...whether they are beneficial or not.

"So" implies causal effect... why are immigrants "coming even more than they have" in your opinion? Factually, since Trump, less people want to be here, as evidenced by REDUCED immigration since recent years. So, the reality is the opposite of hat you are alarming to. Asking why you think it will reverse...

Get ready for a spanish speaking population in the near future

Studying language at a very early age is known to increase general intelligence and learning capacity. The more languages people can speak the better for their brains. That said, less than 20% of Americans know how to speak Spanish today.

Something I see often in racist or generally xenophobic American minds is this repulsion to foreign languages. I chalk it up to paranoia. Vanity causes people to assume everything is about them, so if they don't understand what two people are saying, they assume it is about them, and the paranoia kicks in and assumes whatever it is that just must be all about them, is something negative.

 

[Elixir]

... and economic reasons...
If the agriculture industry cracked down on the employment of illegal immigrants, you'd be paying $10 for an ear of corn and $20 for a loaf of bread... unless you couldn't afford it.. In which case you would starve to death along with giant swaths of our population.



"So" implies causal effect... why are immigrants "coming even more than they have" in your opinion? Factually, since Trump, less people want to be here, as evidenced by REDUCED immigration since recent years. So, the reality is the opposite of hat you are alarming to. Asking why you think it will reverse...

Get ready for a spanish speaking population in the near future

Studying language at a very early age is known to increase general intelligence and learning capacity. The more languages people can speak the better for their brains. That said, less than 20% of Americans know how to speak Spanish today.

Something I see often in racist or generally xenophobic American minds is this repulsion to foreign languages. I chalk it up to paranoia. Vanity causes people to assume everything is about them, so if they don't understand what two people are saying, they assume it is about them, and the paranoia kicks in and assumes whatever it is that just must be all about them, is something negative.

Maybe the xenophobes would be more at ease if 20+ percent of Americans were speaking Norwegian.

 

[SimpleDon]

How much immigration is too little? How much is too much? Setting aside legal vs illegal or which immigrants to bring in, what percentage of a nation's growth do you think should come from immigration?

Canada used to get half its population increase from immigration. Now it gets 3/4 of its increase that way. I don't know the number for the USA but I think it is lower. Japan hardly allows any (and has some problems as a result). The Philippines (where a lot of my family is from) allows immigrants but won't let non-Filipinos practice law or own property in many areas.
.

Supply and demand for labor will be the best guide, especially if we can get our low wage, high-profit problem balanced to favor wages on the lower end to eliminate the working poor, to elevate them into the middle class.

Economic growth follows the population growth of adults entering the workforce. Economic contraction will follow a reduction in this population. And all of the developed countries, the US included, are facing fewer workers entering the workforce than are leaving it.

American workers and in general workers in fully developed, capitalistic economies are amazingly productive, they produce much more than they consume. They have to more productive, they have to support the non-productive sectors of the economy, the retirees, the disabled, the children, the students, the jurisprudence and regulatory systems, the military, and the overhead of the capitalistic system, chief among which is the so-called FIRE sector, the Financial (banks, stock markets and brokers, etc.), Insurance and Real Estate.

This is a tremendous load on the productive parts of the economy, and when we lose productive workers the entire productive sectors of the economy have even more of the non-productive workers that they have to support.

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Before my disability, I seriously considered retiring to Cebu Island. It is not possible for an American to own land in the Philippines, but there are a number of workarounds. A foreigner can lease the land to build a house on for a term of 50 years, renewable for successive 25 year periods. The foreigner would own the house, of course. A foreigner can buy a condominium, including the collective ownership of the land, as long as 60% of the building is owned by Filipinos. A foreigner can start a business in the Philippines with a Filipino partner who must own at least 60% of the business. The business can own land and a home which is provided to the foreigner as compensation. It is best if there is a real business involved though, otherwise, it might be ruled an abuse of the law, which is true of course. I could credibly be considered to be a consultant for any of the cement plants in the Philippines because I built two of them, including the plant on Cebu.