An inconvenient German fact for the refugee haters

[Axulus]

Germany recorded an almost 10 per cent drop in crime last year to its lowest level since the early 1990s despite perceptions that the arrival of more than a million asylum seekers would lead to a rise in offences.

…Overall, violent crime was down by 1.7 per cent last year, the Interior Ministry said

Among all non-German suspects, rape and serious sexual assault fell last year to 2,421 cases from 2,512 in 2016. Overall crime reported fell by 9.6 per cent to its lowest level since 1992.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...after-crime-rate-in-germany-plunges-g8hvhfpb0

Where is all the crime that was predicted by the anti immigration/refugee crowd?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Germany recorded an almost 10 per cent drop in crime last year to its lowest level since the early 1990s despite perceptions that the arrival of more than a million asylum seekers would lead to a rise in offences.

…Overall, violent crime was down by 1.7 per cent last year, the Interior Ministry said

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...after-crime-rate-in-germany-plunges-g8hvhfpb0

Where is all the crime that was predicted by the anti immigration/refugee crowd?

Yea, it's hard to understand. Immigration is also better for the economy. The children of immigrants are the most successful group in the US in almost all measures. Sure they tend to vote democratic, but that's only because the republicans treat them so badly.

 

[dismal]

Germany recorded an almost 10 per cent drop in crime last year to its lowest level since the early 1990s despite perceptions that the arrival of more than a million asylum seekers would lead to a rise in offences.

…Overall, violent crime was down by 1.7 per cent last year, the Interior Ministry said

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...after-crime-rate-in-germany-plunges-g8hvhfpb0

Where is all the crime that was predicted by the anti immigration/refugee crowd?

Yea, it's hard to understand. Immigration is also better for the economy. The children of immigrants are the most successful group in the US in almost all measures. Sure they tend to vote democratic, but that's only because the republicans treat them so badly.

I'm happy to accept that productive immigrants are a benefit to a society. I can't imagine why your blanket statement would be true. If your society imports someone who consumes more than they produce, your society will be worse off.

 

[Underseer]

Yea, it's hard to understand. Immigration is also better for the economy. The children of immigrants are the most successful group in the US in almost all measures. Sure they tend to vote democratic, but that's only because the republicans treat them so badly.

I'm happy to accept that productive immigrants are a benefit to a society. I can't imagine why your blanket statement would be true. If your society imports someone who consumes more than they produce, your society will be worse off.

Then we should keep the immigrants and get rid of conservatives.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-now-red-states-want-even-more/?noredirect=on

 

[dismal]

Yea, it's hard to understand. Immigration is also better for the economy. The children of immigrants are the most successful group in the US in almost all measures. Sure they tend to vote democratic, but that's only because the republicans treat them so badly.

I'm happy to accept that productive immigrants are a benefit to a society. I can't imagine why your blanket statement would be true. If your society imports someone who consumes more than they produce, your society will be worse off.

Then we should keep the immigrants and get rid of conservatives.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-now-red-states-want-even-more/?noredirect=on

What we should do and what we can do are two different things. But I am all having more incentives to produce and less incentives to consume the production of others, if that's what you're advocating.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think the real question people should be asking is why the German government is lying and underreporting all the constant crimes these immigrants are committing every day.

 

[James Brown]

I wonder how we can determine if an immigrant is productive before he's allowed to immigrate and then produce anything?

 

[dismal]

I think the real question people should be asking is why the German government is lying and underreporting all the constant crimes these immigrants are committing every day.

This statistics this article refers to speak to national trends. My guess is the immigrants are a pretty small percentage of the population. Immigrants could be committing crimes well in excess of (or well below) the national average.

Perhaps the article addresses this behind the wall. Otherwise, this is what is known as "shitty reporting".

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think the real question people should be asking is why the German government is lying and underreporting all the constant crimes these immigrants are committing every day.

This statistics this article refers to speak to national trends. My guess is the immigrants are a pretty small percentage of the population. Immigrants could be committing crimes well in excess of (or well below) the national average.

Perhaps the article addresses this behind the wall. Otherwise, this is what is known as "shitty reporting".

Well, it's nice of the native German people to have been extra polite and commit less crimes in order to skew the numbers and let all of the crimes by these immigrants go under the radar. That's a sign of a caring and respectful host.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I think the real question people should be asking is why the German government is lying and underreporting all the constant crimes these immigrants are committing every day.

Obviously, they live in fear of the violent immigrants that threaten violence. can you imagine if they reported honestly? The immigrants and immigrant-philes would riot!

 

[Axulus]

I think the real question people should be asking is why the German government is lying and underreporting all the constant crimes these immigrants are committing every day.

This statistics this article refers to speak to national trends. My guess is the immigrants are a pretty small percentage of the population. Immigrants could be committing crimes well in excess of (or well below) the national average.

Perhaps the article addresses this behind the wall. Otherwise, this is what is known as "shitty reporting".

Data on non-German suspects is included:

Among all non-German suspects, rape and serious sexual assault fell last year to 2,421 cases from 2,512 in 2016. Overall crime reported fell by 9.6 per cent to its lowest level since 1992.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think the real question people should be asking is why the German government is lying and underreporting all the constant crimes these immigrants are committing every day.

Obviously, they live in fear of the violent immigrants that threaten violence. can you imagine if they reported honestly? The immigrants and immigrant-philes would riot!

I think the issue is probably that the National Crime Reporting Centre is in one of those no-go areas for non-Muslims. Anyone who'd want to record real numbers is unable to get into the office to log onto the reporting system.

This is a valuable lesson as to why it's important to allow employees the option to work from home and log in remotely.

 

[dismal]

Data on non-German suspects is included:

Among all non-German suspects, rape and serious sexual assault fell last year to 2,421 cases from 2,512 in 2016. Overall crime reported fell by 9.6 per cent to its lowest level since 1992.

This statistic doesn't address the rate at which immigrants commit crimes compared to the national average. Do they report that?

 

[Axulus]

Data on non-German suspects is included:

Among all non-German suspects, rape and serious sexual assault fell last year to 2,421 cases from 2,512 in 2016. Overall crime reported fell by 9.6 per cent to its lowest level since 1992.

This statistic doesn't address the rate at which immigrants commit crimes compared to the national average. Do they report that?

Relevance? The refugee wave, columinating in 2017, did not lead to some spike in crime as the haters predicted. Crime is at its lowest since 1992.

IOW, Germany is safer, from a crime perspective, than it has been in 25 years. Even if non-Germans commit crime at a higher rate than non-Germans, that is balanced by the fact that over one million people are being given stable living conditions after being forced out of a war torn nation.

Furthermore, it is extremely likely that the victims of such crimes are predominately members of the same communities. Native Germans are thus not really being harmed by such crime, on top of the crime rate being lowest in 25 years.

 

[dismal]

This statistic doesn't address the rate at which immigrants commit crimes compared to the national average. Do they report that?

Relevance? The refugee wave, columinating in 2017, did not lead to some spike in crime as the haters predicted. Crime is at its lowest since 1992.

Relevance? If you're trying to make statements about immigrants and crime what could be more relevant than the crime rate among immigrants?

Why would you talk about broad national trends that probably have nothing to do with immigrants or cherrypick stats?

If immigrants are committing crimes at 2X (or 0.5X) the national average rate then they are in fact hurting (helping) the crime stats, whether it is masked by other factors or not.

 

[Axulus]

Some more data

Government data show that despite a 440 percent increase in migrants, crime among that group only increased by 79 percent last year.

We found out that the German government has repeatedly studied the question of crime and migrants.

According to the Bundeskriminalamt, also known as the Federal Criminal Police Office or BKA, crimes by immigrants rose 79 percent in 2015.

But at the same time, the number of refugees in the country rose more than fivefold — by 440 percent.

In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-trump-says-germany-now-riddled-crime-thanks/

 

[Axulus]

The over representation in certain crimes has mostly to do with demographics of the refugees themselves:

Christian Pfeiffer, a leading criminologist, said that asylum-seekers and refugees were over-represented because many came from the young male demographic most likely to commit crime.

“Young men between 14 and 30 were the most problematic group even before 2014, ” Mr Pfeiffer said. “Then they made up half of suspects but only 9 per cent of the general population.”

One in four of the refugees and asylum-seekers in recent years are young men. “The lack of women is noticeable,” Mr Pfeiffer told Deutsche Welle, the public broadcaster. “Women make a point of solving issues civilly. When they are not there, macho behaviour gets out of hand.”

 

[dismal]

Some more data

Government data show that despite a 440 percent increase in migrants, crime among that group only increased by 79 percent last year.

We found out that the German government has repeatedly studied the question of crime and migrants.

According to the Bundeskriminalamt, also known as the Federal Criminal Police Office or BKA, crimes by immigrants rose 79 percent in 2015.

But at the same time, the number of refugees in the country rose more than fivefold — by 440 percent.

In other words, the typical German was more likely to engage in crime than the average migrant.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-trump-says-germany-now-riddled-crime-thanks/

Again, this has the feel of cherrypicking or avoiding the actual relevant statistic. One of the articles in there suggests that the German government itself is avoiding collecting the relevant data.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7470/germany-migrants-crime

 

[Derec]

The over representation in certain crimes has mostly to do with demographics of the refugees themselves:

So they acknowledge the mass migrants commit more crimes, but are offering excuses for it.

One in four of the refugees and asylum-seekers in recent years are young men. “The lack of women is noticeable,” Mr Pfeiffer told Deutsche Welle, the public broadcaster. “Women make a point of solving issues civilly. When they are not there, macho behaviour gets out of hand.”

So I guess the "solution" that Merkel will offer is that all these young men will be allowed to go back to Syria, Pakistan or Afghanistan (where they supposedly fear for their lives, remember?) to find wives for themselves which they can bring back to GerMoney. That would add a million or two to the mass migrant count of course.
And there is a bit of casual sexism ("women solve things civilly") thrown in as well.

 

[Derec]

Also, crime may have decreased from 2016 to 2017, but only because it increased in 2015 and 2016, when Merkel brought in most of her mass Muslim migrants.
Violent crime rises in Germany and is attributed to refugees

This article says it is due to non-Syrians mostly, probably because most Syrians are legit refugees while most Afghans and all Nafris are not. The OP uses "refugees" to refer to all these migrants, just like German press tends to do, but due to lack of any vetting whatsoever, most of these migrants are not legit refugees. Certainly Hussein Khavari was no refugee, as he lived in Iran for years when he decided to go to Europe. There is no war in Iran.

- - - Updated - - -

Data on non-German suspects is included:

Among all non-German suspects, rape and serious sexual assault fell last year to 2,421 cases from 2,512 in 2016. Overall crime reported fell by 9.6 per cent to its lowest level since 1992.

But that's only because it already increased in 2015 and 2016. Which they conveniently omit.