Socialism Is Always Doomed to Fail

[untermensche]

Capitalism in the US is a baby step away from slavery.

It is just the crappy system that happened to exist when human knowledge built during monarchy and slavery reached a tipping point. The Industrial Revolution.

The brutal and wasteful and violent capitalist systems that existed in the places that most benefited from the Industrial Revolution achieved a level of dominance. They immediately began the ugly and brutal practice of Colonialism.

It is sheer chance capitalism was able to dominate and maintain that dominance until the Technology Revolution and the Nuclear Age which allowed them to maintain their brutal dominance until now.

Nobody ever voted for a capitalist system.

Capitalism has nothing to do with democracy or freedom. China proves that.

It is about dominance and violence and exploitation.

Things like the "Drug War" are a symptom and result of capitalism.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Capitalism in the US is a baby step away from slavery.

It is just the crappy system that happened to exist when human knowledge built during monarchy and slavery reached a tipping point. The Industrial Revolution.

The brutal and wasteful and violent capitalist systems that existed in the places that most benefited from the Industrial Revolution achieved a level of dominance. They immediately began the ugly and brutal practice of Colonialism.

It is sheer chance capitalism was able to dominate and maintain that dominance until the Technology Revolution and the Nuclear Age which allowed them to maintain their brutal dominance until now.

Nobody ever voted for a capitalist system.

Capitalism has nothing to do with democracy or freedom. China proves that.

It is about dominance and violence and exploitation.

Things like the "Drug War" are a symptom and result of capitalism.

the Drug War is Socialism because it's the government dictating over individuals that they can't do what they want to their own body. As weed has become legal, what happened. Stores opened to provide for the desire to fulfill people's wants of smoking it.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Capitalism in the US is a baby step away from slavery.

That's not what Marx thought, and we have a Mixed Economy in the US.

It is just the crappy system that happened to exist when human knowledge built during monarchy and slavery reached a tipping point. The Industrial Revolution.

Actually discovering trade and the market is what eliminated Feudalism. Both free market philosophers AND Marx agree on that.

Things like the "Drug War" are a symptom and result of capitalism.

Absurd. There is a market for these products, therefore any attempt to restrict them is anti-capitalist to the core.

 

[Elixir]

the Drug War is Socialism because it's the government dictating over individuals that they can't do what they want to their own body. As weed has become legal, what happened. Stores opened to provide for the desire to fulfill people's wants of smoking it.

Legal pot is socialism too: Colorado Pot Tax Revenue Surpasses $500M (Not including taxes imposed by municipalities and other local entities)
And much of it is earmarked for {{{shudder}}} PUBLIC education. Education is the nemesis of alt-rightism, so this is definitely a Deep State commie conspiracy!

 

[coloradoatheist]

the Drug War is Socialism because it's the government dictating over individuals that they can't do what they want to their own body. As weed has become legal, what happened. Stores opened to provide for the desire to fulfill people's wants of smoking it.

Legal pot is socialism too: Colorado Pot Tax Revenue Surpasses $500M (Not including taxes imposed by municipalities and other local entities)
And much of it is earmarked for {{{shudder}}} PUBLIC education. Education is the nemesis of alt-rightism, so this is definitely a Deep State commie conspiracy!

Allowing the sale of pot isn't. Using it for public education is.

 

[Elixir]

the Drug War is Socialism because it's the government dictating over individuals that they can't do what they want to their own body. As weed has become legal, what happened. Stores opened to provide for the desire to fulfill people's wants of smoking it.

Legal pot is socialism too: Colorado Pot Tax Revenue Surpasses $500M (Not including taxes imposed by municipalities and other local entities)
And much of it is earmarked for {{{shudder}}} PUBLIC education. Education is the nemesis of alt-rightism, so this is definitely a Deep State commie conspiracy!

Allowing the sale of pot isn't. Using it for public education is.

Ah, it's all of a part. The commies wanted it to be legal only so they could skim off some of the profits. Same reason the right wants it to remain illegal; there's big bucks to be made in interdiction, incarceration etc., not to mention the political utility of demonizing potheads.
What I don't see, is why the pot business isn't a total bust - if even a tenth of Coloradans grew the permitted 6 plants per, the whole state would be knee-deep in bud.

 

[untermensche]

Capitalism in the US is a baby step away from slavery.

It is just the crappy system that happened to exist when human knowledge built during monarchy and slavery reached a tipping point. The Industrial Revolution.

The brutal and wasteful and violent capitalist systems that existed in the places that most benefited from the Industrial Revolution achieved a level of dominance. They immediately began the ugly and brutal practice of Colonialism.

It is sheer chance capitalism was able to dominate and maintain that dominance until the Technology Revolution and the Nuclear Age which allowed them to maintain their brutal dominance until now.

Nobody ever voted for a capitalist system.

Capitalism has nothing to do with democracy or freedom. China proves that.

It is about dominance and violence and exploitation.

Things like the "Drug War" are a symptom and result of capitalism.

the Drug War is Socialism because it's the government dictating over individuals that they can't do what they want to their own body. As weed has become legal, what happened. Stores opened to provide for the desire to fulfill people's wants of smoking it.

The Drug War is a result of capitalists controlling the government. The people never asked for it.

There's money in for-profit prisons.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Capitalism in the US is a baby step away from slavery.

It is just the crappy system that happened to exist when human knowledge built during monarchy and slavery reached a tipping point. The Industrial Revolution.

The brutal and wasteful and violent capitalist systems that existed in the places that most benefited from the Industrial Revolution achieved a level of dominance. They immediately began the ugly and brutal practice of Colonialism.

It is sheer chance capitalism was able to dominate and maintain that dominance until the Technology Revolution and the Nuclear Age which allowed them to maintain their brutal dominance until now.

Nobody ever voted for a capitalist system.

Capitalism has nothing to do with democracy or freedom. China proves that.

It is about dominance and violence and exploitation.

Things like the "Drug War" are a symptom and result of capitalism.

the Drug War is Socialism because it's the government dictating over individuals that they can't do what they want to their own body. As weed has become legal, what happened. Stores opened to provide for the desire to fulfill people's wants of smoking it.

The Drug War is a result of capitalists controlling the government. The people never asked for it.

There's money in for-profit prisons.

The Drug war started 40 or more years ago. Long before for profit prisons and for profit prisons is a very small part of the Justice system. It was done for a couple of reasons, but the belief was that drugs were a harmful behavior holding people down and if we encouraged them through laws not to do it then they would improve people's lives long term.

 

[untermensche]

The Drug war started 40 or more years ago. Long before for profit prisons and for profit prisons is a very small part of the Justice system. It was done for a couple of reasons, but the belief was that drugs were a harmful behavior holding people down and if we encouraged them through laws not to do it then they would improve people's lives long term.

The Drug War was started by the government controlled by capitalists as a way to control the population.

Specifically, "the undesirables".

Minorities and the poor.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

There is a market for drugs. There are buyers and suppliers. Even though black market, that is capitalism.

The Drug War is the government enacting anti-capitalist legislation.

But since untermensche doesn't like the Drug War, and anything he doesn't like is capitalism, therefor it is capitalism. Never mind what capitalism actually is.

 

[Elixir]

The Drug war started 40 or more years ago. Long before for profit prisons and for profit prisons is a very small part of the Justice system. It was done for a couple of reasons, but the belief was that drugs were a harmful behavior holding people down and if we encouraged them through laws not to do it then they would improve people's lives long term.

The Drug War was started by the government controlled by capitalists as a way to control the population.

Specifically, "the undesirables".

Minorities and the poor.

Yabut now it's a profit center. That makes it even harder to get rid of.

 

[coloradoatheist]

The Drug war started 40 or more years ago. Long before for profit prisons and for profit prisons is a very small part of the Justice system. It was done for a couple of reasons, but the belief was that drugs were a harmful behavior holding people down and if we encouraged them through laws not to do it then they would improve people's lives long term.

The Drug War was started by the government controlled by capitalists as a way to control the population.

Specifically, "the undesirables".

Minorities and the poor.

The original drug war started as a reaction to opium from the Chinese. It was the government trying to fight the immigration of Chinese. The next biggest phase was Nixon at the start of the 70s. He did it as a fight against his two political opponents, the anti-war left and blacks. Reagan continued it. It's not a capitalism force driving it, but the government driving it.

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The Drug war started 40 or more years ago. Long before for profit prisons and for profit prisons is a very small part of the Justice system. It was done for a couple of reasons, but the belief was that drugs were a harmful behavior holding people down and if we encouraged them through laws not to do it then they would improve people's lives long term.

The Drug War was started by the government controlled by capitalists as a way to control the population.

Specifically, "the undesirables".

Minorities and the poor.

Yabut now it's a profit center. That makes it even harder to get rid of.

For government programs it is. For the DEA and police forces. Without it, the police might have to actually solve crimes which they are better at on TV and not life.

 

[untermensche]

There is a market for drugs. There are buyers and suppliers. Even though black market, that is capitalism.

The Drug War is the government enacting anti-capitalist legislation.

But since untermensche doesn't like the Drug War, and anything he doesn't like is capitalism, therefor it is capitalism. Never mind what capitalism actually is.

You are a naive child if you don't understand the US government is controlled by capitalists. The Republicans are totally controlled and the Democrats are mostly controlled.

That is why there is no national health insurance.

That is why money that should be repairing and modernizing infrastructure is going to constant war.

That is why the people of Iraq were attacked by the US and terrorized for a decade.

That is why the Drug War rages.

Capitalism is about exploitation.

It has exploited to the point it is destroying the environment.

And since capitalists control governments nothing is being done to stop the destruction.

 

[coloradoatheist]

There is a market for drugs. There are buyers and suppliers. Even though black market, that is capitalism.

The Drug War is the government enacting anti-capitalist legislation.

But since untermensche doesn't like the Drug War, and anything he doesn't like is capitalism, therefor it is capitalism. Never mind what capitalism actually is.

You are a naive child if you don't understand the US government is controlled by capitalists. The Republicans are totally controlled and the Democrats are mostly controlled.

That is why there is no national health insurance.

That is why money that should be repairing and modernizing infrastructure is going to constant war.

That is why the people of Iraq were attacked by the US and terrorized for a decade.

That is why the Drug War rages.

Capitalism is about exploitation.

It has exploited to the point it is destroying the environment.

And since capitalists control governments nothing is being done to stop the destruction.

Funny coming from a guy who says he is an anarchist but the solution to every problem is bigger government as long as the government agrees with you, which it doesn't here in the case of drugs.

And I've said your system would help the environment, if we all become rice paddy farmers we won't have to worry about the long term environment.

Drug War--Socialism. Trying to dictate people's lives from government
War in Iraq. I agree with you here on this one. The war in Iraq is to make sure the economy continues to get something our economy needs and will need for a long time.
National health care. Lack is because of belief in capitalism and the believed harm from the US government running with it.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

There is a market for drugs. There are buyers and suppliers. Even though black market, that is capitalism.

The Drug War is the government enacting anti-capitalist legislation.

But since untermensche doesn't like the Drug War, and anything he doesn't like is capitalism, therefor it is capitalism. Never mind what capitalism actually is.

You are a naive child if you don't understand the US government is controlled by capitalists. The Republicans are totally controlled and the Democrats are mostly controlled.

You are the one saying laws preventing commerce are capitalism.

Try giving a technical definition of capitalism instead of a "these are what I perceive as the goals" definition. See if it fits the definition then.

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Funny coming from a guy who says he is an anarchist but the solution to every problem is bigger government as long as the government agrees with you, which it doesn't here in the case of drugs.

Do you know why An-Caps get told to "move to Somalia" but not An-Coms?

Because only An-Coms think An-Coms are anarchists.

 

[dismal]

the Drug War is Socialism because it's the government dictating over individuals that they can't do what they want to their own body. As weed has become legal, what happened. Stores opened to provide for the desire to fulfill people's wants of smoking it.

Legal pot is socialism too: Colorado Pot Tax Revenue Surpasses $500M (Not including taxes imposed by municipalities and other local entities)
And much of it is earmarked for {{{shudder}}} PUBLIC education. Education is the nemesis of alt-rightism, so this is definitely a Deep State commie conspiracy!

No, "socialism" is not equal "the government does stuff".

Socialism is an economic system wherein the government/collective owns/controls the means of production. Capitalism is an economic system where there is private ownership and mutually voluntary exchange. The government does stuff in both. In particular, the government passes and enforces the very laws that determine which economic system exists.

 

[untermensche]

There is a market for drugs. There are buyers and suppliers. Even though black market, that is capitalism.

The Drug War is the government enacting anti-capitalist legislation.

But since untermensche doesn't like the Drug War, and anything he doesn't like is capitalism, therefor it is capitalism. Never mind what capitalism actually is.

You are a naive child if you don't understand the US government is controlled by capitalists. The Republicans are totally controlled and the Democrats are mostly controlled.

That is why there is no national health insurance.

That is why money that should be repairing and modernizing infrastructure is going to constant war.

That is why the people of Iraq were attacked by the US and terrorized for a decade.

That is why the Drug War rages.

Capitalism is about exploitation.

It has exploited to the point it is destroying the environment.

And since capitalists control governments nothing is being done to stop the destruction.

Funny coming from a guy who says he is an anarchist but the solution to every problem is bigger government as long as the government agrees with you, which it doesn't here in the case of drugs.

Anarchists say the answers are complicated and include recognition of all rights, not just property rights, and most importantly democracy.

Democracy and more democracy.

Bottom up democracy where representatives actually are part of the same class of the majority of people they represent.

Democracy where a sustainable future means more than present day profits.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

the Drug War is Socialism because it's the government dictating over individuals that they can't do what they want to their own body. As weed has become legal, what happened. Stores opened to provide for the desire to fulfill people's wants of smoking it.

Legal pot is socialism too: Colorado Pot Tax Revenue Surpasses $500M (Not including taxes imposed by municipalities and other local entities)
And much of it is earmarked for {{{shudder}}} PUBLIC education. Education is the nemesis of alt-rightism, so this is definitely a Deep State commie conspiracy!

No, "socialism" is not equal "the government does stuff".

Socialism is an economic system wherein the government/collective owns/controls the means of production. Capitalism is an economic system where there is private ownership and mutually voluntary exchange. The government does stuff in both. In particular, the government passes and enforces the very laws that determine which economic system exists.

This accurate post describes why most of the posts in this thread are nonsense.

 

[dismal]

No, "socialism" is not equal "the government does stuff".

Socialism is an economic system wherein the government/collective owns/controls the means of production. Capitalism is an economic system where there is private ownership and mutually voluntary exchange. The government does stuff in both. In particular, the government passes and enforces the very laws that determine which economic system exists.

This accurate post describes why most of the posts in this thread are nonsense.

The "discussion" in this thread doesn't seem to get much past "socialism" means "me likey" and "capitalism" means "me no likey".

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

That's why so many people objected to me defining Socialism as collective ownership of the means of production, and even tried to come up with absurd justifications as to why that definition should cover joint stock corporations.