What's the Harmful Effect of Christianity?

[Rhea]

... asked the narcissistic Christian who thinks nothing wrong has every happened in the name of Christianity...


We can start with looking at the modern harms, since they are currently in need of being stopped.

• Shall we start with the Global Gag Rule which forces women to donate their bodies to rapists and misogyny?
• Or perhaps the ongoing push by Christians to prevent the advertising of condoms to people in AIDS-ridden countries, resulting in thousands of deaths daily?
• We could talk about the cruel and monstrous belief that "suffering is Christ-like" by examining the actions of mother theresa who collected money world-wide to help the poor, but who gave the money to the Vatican and told the poor that their suffering was beautiful to her as she held their hands when they died in pain?
• let's talk about the people who made a 9 year old give birth - and die from it - because they thought she had to follow "god's will" about her rapist's legacy.
• We can discuss the millions of women who suffer lower pay because the religion claims that men "should" be the breadwinners.
• We can talk about all the people who want to live life apart from Christianity, but can't because they shove it down our throats in schools and law.
• We can talk about the horrible and cruel shaming that Christianity creates by their belief in gender roles and "right" and "wrong" things to wear or like or love.
• We can talk about the destruction of the environment by Christians who are so sure that the end times are nigh (again, sigh,) that they don't care about the environment because it doesn't matter to them.
• We can talk about the inexcusable barbarity of Christians thinking that native children should be torn from their parents so they don't ~gasp~ get raised without "god"
• We can talk about the hideous effects of the christian tribal thought process - of "chosen" groups and "damned" groups.
• How about the horrible child-rearing practices they worship like beating children so they won't "sin"

Others, I'm sure, can add to the list and add detail to these above.
It is horrible and it is daily AND YOU (Christians) OWN IT.

 

[Rhea]

• There are the gay and lesbian couples whose christian families try to rip children away from a surviving parent due to their "sinful nature"
• There are oppressive christians who insist on using christianity to question the patriotism and right of fair trial for Americans by putting their stupid "under god" in the pledge and stupid 10 "commandments" in the courtrooms, making precarious the safety and civil rights of non-christians.
• And speaking of "under god" in the pledge, there are the Christians using their religion as a cudgel against young children; 4, 5, 6 years old and up, to make sure they are shamed and ostracised by their classmates for not being believers. Look, great, we have this TEST every morning where you, yes you, 6 year old little Anna, are forced to either LIE out loud about your beliefs or be outed to the rest of the group as different and wrong. Try that on for size little Anna? What will you do? Every day?

 

[Jobar]

Atheists and anger

Greta Christina's 2007 blog on the subject packs as much power today as it did when it was new.

 

[rousseau]

Christianity, at it's core, is an organization that exists to provide a living for the people who depend on it continuing to exist. Just like any other company or group, the real value of the organization to the well-being of people is secondary to the people who run it being able to survive. The problem there is obvious: the entire thesis of Christianity is based on ancient, out-dated, and incorrect ideas about reality, that are only being sustained because your local priest can't afford groceries if he admits it's all bullshit. So the lie continues.

One could also frame a pretty good argument that there are tons of other organizations out there with the same dynamic/problem. An organization is by it's very nature predatory/capitalistic, not inherently virtuous.

So the harmful effects of Christianity are pretty much anything stupid it does in the name of the lie that it's promoting.

 

[Lion IRC]

Another atheist wins straw argument by talking to themself thread.
*yawn*

 

[steve_bank]

Thinking about it gives me indigestion.

 

[Jobar]

Another atheist wins straw argument by talking to themself thread.

Well, Mr. Christian, you're entirely free to refute it, or show why it's a straw argument. In fact I often wish there were more believers willing to do so.

I note that when we unbelievers try to engage believers on their own discussion boards, we usually aren't extended the same courtesy.

 

[steve_bank]

Atheists and anger

Greta Christina's 2007 blog on the subject packs as much power today as it did when it was new.

If you want anger and rage listen to some of the Evangelical radio and TV preachers. Some is pure hate speech.

In the facility I am in a preacher runs a weekly bible group. He screams and rants at the evil atheists in league with Satan who are out to get him and his fellow Christians. Every Thursday night you can hear him all around the floor.

 

[Rhea]

Another atheist wins straw argument by talking to themself thread.
*yawn*

Now that’s an interesting comment.

A straw man is, as we all know, an argument set up _instead_ of yours, that’s easier to knock down. An argument that is perhaps even quite opposed to your argument, but since I can’t refute your argument, I try to set up the different argument and pretend it’s yours so I can claim victory.

So, here we have

The question: Why can’t Christians stop harming us?
Lion: What harms have Christians done doing these two specific Christian-ey things (well we claim they are Christian-ey, even though everyone knows these two things are not exclusive to Christianity)? These two specific things? (In answer to why won’t CHristians stop harming us? Which was about far more than those two carefully selected specific things)

The astute reader might notice that this is a straw man. No one said “why won’t Christians stop treating us as they’d like to be treated”. Or “why won’t Christians stop having charities”. But that’s the way Lion replied to the question of why won’t christians stop harming us?

Anyway, so as not to derail the topic of that thread, I place my answer to his straw-man question here, to give it full consideration. And I address EXACTLY the two questions that he tries to carefully craft as having only a positive answer. We don’t want to be treated as Christians treat themselves because we are not Christian and your Christianity is abhorrent. And your charities are cruel and damaging.

Except the Christian narcissism prevented him from seeing that Christian behavior in these two domains is NOT wholly benevolent and is quit often harmful.

And I expanded: These are more ways in which christianity is NOT benevolent, as was originally posted above his attempt to carefully narrow the question in a way that he thought could only be answered positively.

Christians have a very VERY hard time honestly studying the ways in which their religion is harmful. It makes them scream and writhe in pain.

But Christianity is not benevolent. And they own that.

I don’t know if Lion will be able to participate in a conversation about the harmful effects of Christianity. I suspect he will writhe and obfuscate and deny and dodge.

Christianity is not all-benevolent as christians like to believe. This thread is about exploring those dark spots on Christianity in modern society.

 

[Jobar]

Atheists and anger

Greta Christina's 2007 blog on the subject packs as much power today as it did when it was new.

If you want anger and rage listen to some of the Evangelical radio and TV preachers. Some is pure hate speech.

In the facility I am in a preacher runs a weekly bible group. He screams and rants at the evil atheists in league with Satan who are out to get him and his fellow Christians. Every Thursday night you can hear him all around the floor.

If there were more Christians who tried to practice more of what Jesus preached- do good to those who persecuted them, to love their enemies, to resist not evil- well, the world would probably be a better place, wouldn't it?

Alas, there are all too many who preach hatred, all the while claiming they do it in the name of love.

 

[Jobar]

From George H. Smith's 1979 work, Atheism: The Case Against God; the final chapter, "The Sins of Christianity". From pg. 306 forward, some quotes-

While the content of Christian ethics has varied throughout history, this principle has remained unchanged: God is the master, man is the slave- and the fundamental characteristic of a slave is that he is not permitted, under the threat of force, to act according to his own judgement. But the Christian God far surpasses the capabilities of any human slavemaster, for he can monitor, not only the actions of men, but their thoughts and feelings as well. The Christian God can, and does, command how man should think and feel.

It is commonly said of totalitarian power seekers that they wish to "play God." This comment has a double edge, and is far more insightful than most people realize.
...

Whether their consequences are beneficial or harmful, acts of faith are united by their submission to an authoritative moral code. God demanded of the early Christians that they refuse to submit to state decrees, and they sacrificed themselves in obedience to his will. God demanded of the medieval Christians that they eradicate heresy, and they sacrificed others in obedience to his will. Men praise the former as acts of courage, and condemn the latter as moral atrocities, but the underlying principles in each case are identical: passive obedience to moral rules.
...

The man who seeks truth calls on reason; the man who seeks conformity calls on faith. A morality of independence relies on reason; a morality of obedience relies on faith.
...

A morality of conformity, a morality divorced from consequences- this idea has sanctioned more bloodshed and devastation than any comparable notion in ethical theory. Millions of persons have been slaughtered, mutilated and tortured in the name of religious morality, in the name of obedience to a "higher," "nobler" realm.
...

In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince men that they need salvation, that there is something to be "saved" from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy man living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on Earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, man is sinful and helpless in the fact of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of Hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
...

It cannot be emphasized too strongly that Christianity has a vested interest in human misery. This central theme manifests itself again and again in Christian doctrines, and most Christian doctrines are unintelligible unless viewed in this context. The spectacular success of Christianity has been a topic of heated debate among scholars, and it is certainly true that definite historical factors influenced that success. I suggest, however, that much of Christianity's success can be accounted for in another way: Christianity, perhaps more than any religion before or since, capitalized on human suffering; and it was enormously successful in insuring its own existence through the perpetuation of human suffering.
...

Since the foremost aim of Christian ethics, psychologically speaking, is to cultivate a mentality of obedience, Christian ethics, to the extent that one adopts it, will cause and contribute to a variety of psychological problems. It encourages intellectual passivity, fear that one's thoughts and emotions may be sinful, guilt at the thought of sexual assertiveness, and the pervading feeling that one is basically helpless, unimportant and evil.

 

[steve_bank]

Atheists and anger

Greta Christina's 2007 blog on the subject packs as much power today as it did when it was new.

If you want anger and rage listen to some of the Evangelical radio and TV preachers. Some is pure hate speech.

In the facility I am in a preacher runs a weekly bible group. He screams and rants at the evil atheists in league with Satan who are out to get him and his fellow Christians. Every Thursday night you can hear him all around the floor.

If there were more Christians who tried to practice more of what Jesus preached- do good to those who persecuted them, to love their enemies, to resist not evil- well, the world would probably be a better place, wouldn't it?

Alas, there are all too many who preach hatred, all the while claiming they do it in the name of love.

And there in lies the rub. Christians can not agree on 'what god wants'.

There are two Christs in the gospels. The angry Jesus raging at commerce in the temple resorting to violence. There is also the tranquil Jesus in the Sermon On The Mount. There is no coherent morality in the gospels. Jesus was a rabi talking to Jews. People pick and choose interpretation.

 

[Learner]

Its the same Jesus angry and tranquil.

 

[Rhea]

Its the same Jesus angry and tranquil.

and harmful.

 

[Learner]

Oh yes, harmful (to the psyche of the wicked).

 

[Rhea]

Oh yes, harmful (to the psyche of the wicked).

No, learner. And no cute raspberry is appropriate.

Is it a funny funny tongue wag when people in Africa get AIDS because the religionists call condoms evil? Is that so ha-ha funny to you?
Is it funny when the 9 year old girl raped by her father dies in childbirth because "Jesus" said all life is sacred?


Oh, so humorous! Ha ha! Ha! Oh, their wicked psyches sure took a hit there! Ha. Ha.

 

[Lion IRC]

All life is sacred.
Pro-life religion has saved millions of lives. That's a cause for celebration. [Insert happy face here]

And a nine year old rape victim didn't die in childbirth because of religion. She died because she was raped.
That fact is true and would be true even if she was an atheist who chose to proceed with her pregnancy.

And Christian religion doesn't think condoms are evil. It thinks adultery is evil.
You think cheating adulterous men can tell their wife, "don't worry, it's ok because I used a condom when I had sex with the injecting drug user or HIV positive gay man" ?

 

[Rhea]

All life is sacred.

Except the lives of women, who are sacrificed against their will for fetuses. Or for unwanted marriages. Or the lives of children, sacrificed for the “godliness” of the rod. Or the lives of homosexuals, who are brutalized in the name of Jesus.

Pro-life religion has saved millions of lives. That's a cause for celebration. [Insert happy face here]

And it has cost millions of lives. [insert face of a monster, here [it’s the same smiling christian face, btw]]

And a nine year old rape victim didn't die in childbirth because of religion. She died because she was raped.

She died because religion denied her an abortion. Her life was worthless to the religionists, as long as it acted as the vessel they wanted it to be. And they let her die from a pregnancy that she could never have survived and should never have had to endure.

That fact is true and would be true even if she was an atheist who chose to proceed with her pregnancy.

An atheist would have no reason AT ALL to force a 9 year old to continue a pregnancy against her will.

And Christian religion doesn't think condoms are evil. It thinks adultery is evil.

Oh? Then why were/ARE they denied to married couples? Why do christian bishops in Africa spread false information about condoms causing evil even if used by marrried couples?

You think cheating adulterous men can tell their wife, "don't worry, it's ok because I used a condom when I had sex with the injecting drug user or HIV positive gay man" ?

God, you’re sick. No, I think cheating men will say, “at least I won’t give my wife a deadly disease from my cheating.

But you christians, you LOOOVE the “wages of sin,” don’t you? Preach it brother! If a man commits adultery, his wife should die, too!

And who said anything about gay sex? Are you so steeped in your love of punishing sin that you don’t even realize HIV is spread through heterosexual sex, too?

 

[Learner]

No, learner. And no cute raspberry is appropriate.

Is it a funny funny tongue wag when people in Africa get AIDS because the religionists call condoms evil? Is that so ha-ha funny to you?

I was not aware your previous reply (harmful) would lbe about the "evil of condoms". I mean't Jesus (the teachings or philosophy) is troublesome for evil-doers.

Is it funny when the 9 year old girl raped by her father dies in childbirth because "Jesus" said all life is sacred?


Oh, so humorous! Ha ha! Ha! Oh, their wicked psyches sure took a hit there! Ha. Ha.

Lions post # 17 has answered this part but I realize you have some talent to read "a lot" in just a few words of my post #15.

 

[Rhea]

Lions post # 17 has answered this part

Nah, he didn’t. He dodged and fabricated.

but I realize you have some talent to read "a lot" in just a few words of my post #15.

Your few words were, “tragedy and pain? LOLZ! Own Fault!”
So it doesn’t take any talent at all to read that in the context of the thread of the harm that Christianity does to humankind.

I mean't Jesus (the teachings or philosophy) is troublesome for evil-doers.

Of course you did. Because that’s what Christians do. When asked, “have you even thought about the harm Christianity does?” You all stick your fingers in your ears and say, “What about them!?”

But in this thread, the christians following Jesus ARE the evildowers. And Jesus doesn’t seem to have a lick of help to give. His words, indeed are what is used to justify the behavior.