Can the definition of infinity disprove an infinite past?

[Lion IRC]

If you can add 1 then it wasn't infinite to start with.
And I agree - it's not a number.
1 is a number.
Can you add a non-number to a number?
Does truth become 15% more truthful if you multiply it by 1.15 ?
Does God live an extra few years by not smoking? No. He exists for a past and future eternity.

Like I said. It's an oxymoron to give an abstraction like infinity a finite quality like the ability to ADD it to something.

 

[Learner]

Technically speaking, we should ask, "what is the age of the universe as we know it?"

Because if there was a big bang, that came from a (rather immense) singularity, that posits that the singularity existed before the big bang. That our universe was, in fact, at that time, a singularity. And was possibly something else before that.

So ... everthing is included in the singularity. Is that the same notion as the universe (including its physical properties) fitting into a thimble? Sounds far more fantastical than there being any creator, if it is.

Making it clear that yes, our universe existed before, but in an entirely different form. Which is fine with me. No one ever convinced me that our universe had to look the same all the time for its entire infinite existence.

Otherwise caterpillars and butterflies would not be the same creature, right?

The existence of the big bang has no implications whatsoever on the existence of an infinite universe.

It does if you think the observed physical matter has always been infinite.

(Although Learner probably thinks the Big Bang is still happening)

Thats not the description in Genesis. So no

 

[skepticalbip]

So ... everthing is included in the singularity. Is that the same notion as the universe (including its physical properties) fitting into a thimble? Sounds far more fantastical than there being any creator, if it is.



It does if you think the observed physical matter has always been infinite.

(Although Learner probably thinks the Big Bang is still happening)

Thats not the description in Genesis. So no

You are aware, aren't you, that there are two different creation stories in Genesis? Of the two, the one that Christians normally go with has light being created then divided from darkness to give us day and night four days (if I remember correctly) before the Sun was created. The writers of Genesis had no understanding that we get our light from the Sun - for them light wasn't at all related to the Sun but the Sun was created to rule the day that had already been created four days earlier. Current Christian dogma ignores most of the description of how the universe works in Genesis because it is understood by theologians that the writers had a piss poor understanding of reality.

 

[Learner]

So ... everthing is included in the singularity. Is that the same notion as the universe (including its physical properties) fitting into a thimble? Sounds far more fantastical than there being any creator, if it is.



It does if you think the observed physical matter has always been infinite.

(Although Learner probably thinks the Big Bang is still happening)

Thats not the description in Genesis. So no

You are aware, aren't you, that there are two different creation stories in Genesis? Of the two, the one that Christians normally go with has light being created then divided from darkness to give us day and night four days (if I remember correctly) before the Sun was created. The writers of Genesis had no understanding that we get our light from the Sun - for them light wasn't at all related to the Sun but the Sun was created to rule the day that had already been created four days earlier. Current Christian dogma ignores most of the description of how the universe works in Genesis because it is understood by theologians that the writers had a piss poor understanding of reality.

No contradiction, its the same when I used to work on building sites, there were NO electrical wiring yet put in, so lights were temporary brought in so that people of all trades were able to work in the building and see what they were doing (in the dark void, if you will) like putting in the wires in the first place.

Plants and vegetation i.e. life in Genesis were before the sun and moon therefore they had good lighting, so to speak before then.

 

[none]

If you can add 1 then it wasn't infinite to start with.
And I agree - it's not a number.
1 is a number.
Can you add a non-number to a number?
Does truth become 15% more truthful if you multiply it by 1.15 ?
Does God live an extra few years by not smoking? No. He exists for a past and future eternity.

Like I said. It's an oxymoron to give an abstraction like infinity a finite quality like the ability to ADD it to something.

You might want to learn about some mathematics concerning infinity
You can add numbers to infinity, you can add infinity to infinity and you can subtract likewise numbers and infinity from infinity
I could be wrong

 

[none]

You are aware, aren't you, that there are two different creation stories in Genesis? Of the two, the one that Christians normally go with has light being created then divided from darkness to give us day and night four days (if I remember correctly) before the Sun was created. The writers of Genesis had no understanding that we get our light from the Sun - for them light wasn't at all related to the Sun but the Sun was created to rule the day that had already been created four days earlier. Current Christian dogma ignores most of the description of how the universe works in Genesis because it is understood by theologians that the writers had a piss poor understanding of reality.

No contradiction, its the same when I used to work on building sites, there were NO electrical wiring yet put in, so lights were temporary brought in so that people of all trades were able to work in the building and see what they were doing (in the dark void, if you will) like putting in the wires in the first place.

Plants and vegetation i.e. life in Genesis were before the sun and moon therefore they had good lighting, so to speak before then.

AMD when it's not fact it's metaphorical
When it's not science it's metaphorical
How do you know the difference? What metric are you using

 

[Learner]

AMD when it's not fact it's metaphorical
When it's not science it's metaphorical
How do you know the difference? What metric are you using

The same measure Skeps was using to make the contradiction of the theology's context.

 

[none]

AMD when it's not fact it's metaphorical
When it's not science it's metaphorical
How do you know the difference? What metric are you using

The same measure Skept was using trying to make the contradiction of the theology's context.

Which is?
Hopefully you are rabid enough tonight to converse with

 

[Learner]

Read his previous post

 

[none]

Read his previous post

he's skeptical because he's reading the bible literally
I asked for the metric you are using
Are you reading the bible literally?
What is a day?

 

[Learner]

Read his previous post

he's skeptical be cause he's reading the bible literally
I asked for the metric you are using
Are you reading the bible literally?
What is a day?

I see well its still twelve hours as its always been (biblically). The luni-solar calender. (lunar months)

 

[skepticalbip]

You are aware, aren't you, that there are two different creation stories in Genesis? Of the two, the one that Christians normally go with has light being created then divided from darkness to give us day and night four days (if I remember correctly) before the Sun was created. The writers of Genesis had no understanding that we get our light from the Sun - for them light wasn't at all related to the Sun but the Sun was created to rule the day that had already been created four days earlier. Current Christian dogma ignores most of the description of how the universe works in Genesis because it is understood by theologians that the writers had a piss poor understanding of reality.

No contradiction, its the same when I used to work on building sites, there were NO electrical wiring yet put in, so lights were temporary brought in so that people of all trades were able to work in the building and see what they were doing (in the dark void, if you will) like putting in the wires in the first place.

Plants and vegetation i.e. life in Genesis were before the sun and moon therefore they had good lighting, so to speak before then.

What utter hand waving BS. Do you really want to go through all the many, many blatant errors of how reality works in Genesis and do hand waving for them or accept the take of theologians who attribute them to metaphors?

 

[Learner]

What utter hand waving BS. Do you really want to go through all the many, many blatant errors of how reality works in Genesis and do hand waving for them or accept the take of theologians who attribute them to metaphors?

Metaphors hand waiving? It was an answer that fits (at least to me / theists) although not to your liking.

 

[skepticalbip]

What utter hand waving BS. Do you really want to go through all the many, many blatant errors of how reality works in Genesis and do hand waving for them or accept the take of theologians who attribute them to metaphors?

Metaphors? It was an answer that fits although not to your liking.

It fits if you assume that god is an idiot to not realize that he needed to make the sun first to have daylight so he wouldn't need to use his handy Craftsman generator and floodlights so he could see what he was doing.

 

[Learner]

It fits if you assume that god is an idiot to not realize that he needed to make the sun first to have daylight so he wouldn't need to use his handy Craftsman generator and floodlights so he could see what he was doing.

For greeny leafy life .. not God to see.

 

[none]

Read his previous post

he's skeptical be cause he's reading the bible literally
I asked for the metric you are using
Are you reading the bible literally?
What is a day?

I see well its still twelve hours as its always been (biblically). The luni-solar calender. (lunar months)

Ok
So day is nothing to do with sunrise and sunset
Are you sure about this interpretation

 

[skepticalbip]

Read his previous post

he's skeptical because he's reading the bible literally
I asked for the metric you are using
Are you reading the bible literally?
What is a day?

Or better... if the Bible is read literally, how do you make a goat be born with a checkerboard pattern in its fur?

 

[none]

Read his previous post

he's skeptical because he's reading the bible literally
I asked for the metric you are using
Are you reading the bible literally?
What is a day?

Or better... if the Bible is read literally, how do you make a goat be born with a checkerboard pattern in its fur?

Or you can troll

 

[Learner]

Ok
So day is nothing to do with sunrise and sunset
Are you sure about this interpretation

Its still sunrise and sunset in the interpretation as I understand it.

 

[skepticalbip]

Or better... if the Bible is read literally, how do you make a goat be born with a checkerboard pattern in its fur?

Or you can troll

The Bible does describe what causes coloration patterns in animals... it's nothing to do with reality but was taken as truth at the time the Bible was written.