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Non-believers - Ever prayed really hard for God to reveal himself?

excreationist

excreationist

Married mouth-breather
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Probably in a simulation
Hi I am a non-believer but while in high school I believed in young-earth creationism. I was also the "dux" (top) of my grade 12. Near the end I prayed that I would know the truth, no matter how bad it made me feel. At that time I also felt a tingling feeling. With the help of Ed Babinski, an ex-creationist, I gave up belief in young-earth creationism and since I believed that the foundation of the Bible is in the literal truth of Genesis I also became an atheist. Since that time I have had brief times of belief in some form of god/God.

But I haven't tried praying hard to God for him to reveal himself though Jesus said "seek and you will find" - that doesn't mean that the search would necessarily be easy.

So for other non-believers, what about you? I know there have been atheists that have tried praying but what about you?
 
BTW there aren't many consequences about whether you are correct in your belief about whether Poseidon exists or not. On the other hand there is a slight (non-zero) possibility that you will suffer eternally in hell if you are incorrect about whether the Christian God exists. Assuming it is a non-zero possibility and the punishment is infinite in size (since it is infinite in duration) then it matters to some degree whether you're right about God and one way to find out is to seek him out in prayer. (just playing devil's advocate)
 
I found this:

Jeremiah:29:13 - And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

BTW it doesn't say pray hard it says "search for me with ALL your heart".
 
excreationist said:
BTW there aren't many consequences about whether you are correct in your belief about whether Poseidon exists or not. On the other hand there is a slight (non-zero) possibility that you will suffer eternally in hell if you are incorrect about whether the Christian God exists. Assuming it is a non-zero possibility and the punishment is infinite in size (since it is infinite in duration) then it matters to some degree whether you're right about God and one way to find out is to seek him out in prayer. (just playing devil's advocate)
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Most religions promise some sort of unpleasantness in the afterlife if you don't follow their tenets.

Threats don't make things true.
 
Yes hell isn't proven but I think it is a slight possibility. Also following the tenets of most religions to avoid unpleasantness just involves being good rather than bad. I think Christianity may be the only religion that threatens eternal extreme punishment (not just "some sort of unpleasantness") for everyone that isn't a sincere believer.
 
Oh ya, there have been times when I've really wanted God to be real and I prayed that he give me a sign.

Then a frost giant showed up and I had to kill him myself, so alas, I had to conclude that Odin was fictional. This is a true story and I don't want anybody to be saying that it wasn't a frost giant but just the mailman like the stupid police were trying to tell me. :mad:
 
excreationist said:
Yes hell isn't proven but I think it is a slight possibility. Also following the tenets of most religions to avoid unpleasantness just involves being good rather than bad. I think Christianity may be the only religion that threatens eternal extreme punishment (not just "some sort of unpleasantness") for everyone that isn't a sincere believer.
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Call me overly skeptical, but some 'magical fiery place' that exists only to torture dead human beings for all eternity sounds like something with a zero probability to me. For one it defies the laws of physics and so its existence necessitates some alternate reality besides the one which we know exists (extremely unlikely). Two, its existence necessitates that the Christian God is actually a real thing (also extremely unlikely). And three, it presumes that somehow humans go on existing after they die (basically completely illogical).

And so: extremely unlikely + extremely unlikely + completely illogical = zero probability (and extremely unlikely is a vast under statement)

As for praying, I think I legitimately prayed once when I was 10 or 11. Shortly thereafter I wondered why I did that, and stopped doing it.
 
rousseau:

Zero probability is different to a googol zeroes and then a 1. For some reason there are some very intelligent believers that don't have significant problems with it. As far as alternate realities go I think a very large proportion of theoretical physicists believe in the multiple worlds interpretation of quantum physics (though that is unrelated). BTW the Bible says that the path to Heaven or God is very narrow. BTW the Bible says that hell was made for the devil and his angels. I believe in "conditional immortality" (see the link in this youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzynfCuJRBY ) - assuming the Bible is true - that humans would burn up after a while.

From 1 Corinthians 1:
"the foolishness of God is wiser than men" "but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise"

I personally know a lot of very intelligent people who have become very strong believers...
 
rousseau said:
.....sounds like something with a zero probability to me.
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What it sounds like to you doesn't prove it is in fact a zero probability.

For one it defies the laws of physics
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God is supernatural and isn't bound by the laws of physics!

Two, its existence necessitates that the Christian God is actually a real thing (also extremely unlikely).
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Yet billions of people believe in it - some were non-believers originally. And many are highly intelligent.

And three, it presumes that somehow humans go on existing after they die (basically completely illogical).
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Yet apparently this is what a lot of the Greeks believed and their philosophers were experts on logic. So it isn't "completely" illogical. (I think that is true - based on a website that says universal immortality was a Greek idea) I don't think the Bible says that everyone will live forever - only those who eat of the fruit of the tree of life and/or have their names written in the book of life. But many/most Christians would believe that it is logical that everyone lives forever because God made souls that way.
 
And of course, xtians seem to have noticed that NDE tales are for some reason compelling, so they are selling hard the "23 minutes in hell can save you 15% on car insurance" type horror stories.

In answer to the OP, yes, I did. Now, I get told that only those whose seek him that fervently and faithfully every day of their lives, without "giving up" have any chance of seeing him before judgement day.
 
rousseau:

BTW in some ways the cosmic speed limit being the speed of light is illogical. So is some aspects of quantum physics. That doesn't prove they are false. Also in Einstein's thought experiments he worked out that matter can be converted into energy and that time can slow down due to gravity. There is also the idea that the universe is like the surface of a sphere - it is limited but has no end. Some of those things could be considered to be breaking the laws of physics or at least Newton's laws.
 
If the Christian God exists and he wants me to believe in him, he's capable of providing me with the evidence I need to do so -- which is a damn sight more than a 'tingling feeling'. Since he hasn't done that, I can only conclude that if he exists, he doesn't want me to believe in him, and I'm happy to oblige. And of course if he doesn't exist I shouldn't believe in him either, so I'm covered both ways.

But seriously, do you really think that if the Supreme Ruler and Head Honcho of the entire universe existed and wanted you to believe in him, you would have any choice in the matter? An ant or a grain of sand can make you believe in it, just by showing up: are they more powerful than this hypothetical God?
 
Another verse:

http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/4-29.htm
"But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul."

It looks like you might also need to seek him with all of your soul as well as your heart...
 
excreationist said:
Another verse:

http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/4-29.htm
"But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul."

It looks like you might also need to seek him with all of your soul as well as your heart...
Click to expand...

Then why bother? If he wants to play hide and seek, let him get on with it. I've got more interesting things to do.
 
jonJ said:
If the Christian God exists and he wants me to believe in him, he's capable of providing me with the evidence I need to do so -- which is a damn sight more than a 'tingling feeling'. Since he hasn't done that, I can only conclude that if he exists, he doesn't want me to believe in him, and I'm happy to oblige. And of course if he doesn't exist I shouldn't believe in him either, so I'm covered both ways.

But seriously, do you really think that if the Supreme Ruler and Head Honcho of the entire universe existed and wanted you to believe in him, you would have any choice in the matter? An ant or a grain of sand can make you believe in it, just by showing up: are they more powerful than God?
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What about this analogy - there are lots of children that are starving to death. Do you want them to starve to death? If not, why aren't you helping solve that problem? Though God is infinite (if he exists) he has a history of not intervening a lot. BTW when Satan was tempting Jesus, Jesus said "do not put the Lord to the test".

Matthew 7:13-14
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

According to Christians people deserve to go to hell because they can't meet God's perfect holy standards. Salvation is a gift, not something everyone deserves.
 
jonJ said:
Then why bother? If he wants to play hide and seek, let him get on with it. I've got more interesting things to do.
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To save your soul from the slight chance of hell being real. If it is real you'd be regretting your life choices for an eternity. Or perhaps you'd just suffer with no regrets.
 
Pascal's - My father fully embraces this concept. He told me he was attending church more regularly and when I asked why he said, "Just hedging my bets." Sound pretty much like what you are advocating, excreationist.

Me personally - I think praying to Jesus sincerley is a pretty goofy catch 22. You can't really do that unless you are already a True Believer, so of course you'll get the answer you want straight out of the depths of your own consious/unconsious desires. You'll suddenly be able to interpret the slightest silliness as confirmation (tingling, voices in yer head, etc)

So Im with jonJ - God knows my mind better than me, once he sees the sincere desire (or whatever his requirments are), he'll let me know. If he doesn't and punishes me for it later on - then he's just a dick and not worthy of my belief/worship anyway.
 
excreationist said:
What it sounds like to you doesn't prove it is in fact a zero probability.


God is supernatural and isn't bound by the laws of physics!


Yet billions of people believe in it - some were non-believers originally. And many are highly intelligent.


Yet apparently this is what a lot of the Greeks believed and their philosophers were experts on logic. So it isn't "completely" illogical. (I think that is true - based on a website that says universal immortality was a Greek idea) I don't think the Bible says that everyone will live forever - only those who eat of the fruit of the tree of life and/or have their names written in the book of life. But many/most Christians would believe that it is logical that everyone lives forever because God made souls that way.
Click to expand...

If it isn't a zero probability, it is an astronomically low enough probability that I'm completely comfortable assuming it is untrue.

Also, lots of people believing that something is true doesn't make the thing any more likely to be true. Lots of those same people disbelieve evolution, which actually is true, so that says something. If there's anything the study of science and psychology has shown me it's that usually people aren't rational, and they especially aren't rational about things that have become world-wide, normalized memes.
 
I used to. The last time it was less like a prayer and more like giving the Bible god a rain check. Something like, "All right, I'll believe in you when you do your part and show up in a non-ambiguous way".
 
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