Are you a moral person?

[untermensche]

They did a lot more than that.

They bombed Cambodia into the stone age creating the power vacuum that allowed Pol Pot to gain power.

Nasty bastards head capitalist nations.

 

[DrZoidberg]

They did a lot more than that.

They bombed Cambodia into the stone age creating the power vacuum that allowed Pol Pot to gain power.

Nasty bastards head capitalist nations.

Meh... USA is more guilty than that. When Norodom Sihanouk (king of Cambodia and an exceedingly capable ruler) went to China (1970) to seek an alliance with Mao, Lon Nol staged a coup back home. Whether or not instigated by the CIA is a bit murky. But USA immediately gave him support. Which makes them just as guilty as if they would have. Lon Nol was an incompetent ruler. His incopetence is what created the opening the Khmer Rouge exploited.

The bombing of Cambodia is more like frosting on that cake.

 

[fromderinside]

Maybe had the allies continued with the war to end tyranny (WWII) by bringing down the Soviets after the fall of Germany there would have never been the problems in China or SE asia.

History can be linked forever you know.

Maybe there would have been no rituals nor art had that little enclave been wiped out about 65000 years ago.

Where would morality be without them.

 

[untermensche]

Maybe if the Soviets had continued and taken out the US a lot more Vietnamese and Cambodians would have lived?

Doesn't make dictatorship moral.

Nothing can make dictatorship moral.

You either care or don't care, that is all.

 

[fromderinside]

When you settle on what is a dictatorship maybe we can have a discussion.

 

[untermensche]

It is a human made structure of power.

A structure where all real power is in the hands of a minority.

A structure where if you are not one of the dictators you either follow orders to the letter or you leave. There is no other choice.

 

[steve_bank]

It is a human made structure of power.

A structure where all real power is in the hands of a minority.

A structure where if you are not one of the dictators you either follow orders to the letter or you leave. There is no other choice.

Right on brother! Power to the people.

 

[untermensche]

John Lennon wrote a song about that.

 

[steve_bank]

John Lennon wrote a song about that.

Contrary to his radical avant guard image, he was a wealthy bourgeois aristocrat, a modern version.

'power to the people' came out as a slogan of black civil rights, along with a raised clenched fist.

 

[Speakpigeon]

Do you see yourself as a moral and ethical person in daily life? If so what guides you and why?

Is lying by word or omission in the work place ok? Taking pens or copy paper? Taking unfair advantage of someone?

We're all moral beings (or very nearly all).

But unfortunately we're all fucked up in one way or another. Morally perfect people are either liars or idiots. Hmm. Sorry, they are both liars and idiots.

Morality is like our sense of logic. We can use it if we feel like it or just ignore it if it's more convenient and otherwise go on with our lives because we feel we have to.

This is not even debatable.
EB

 

[fromderinside]

Deny your senses at your risk baby.

 

[untermensche]

John Lennon wrote a song about that.

Contrary to his radical avant guard image, he was a wealthy bourgeois aristocrat, a modern version.

He was wealthy because people freely paid for his music. His music gave them pleasure they could not have without it. He did not steal from anybody.

He was no aristocrat. That is what got him killed. He went out of his way to try to make his fans happy.

'power to the people' came out as a slogan of black civil rights, along with a raised clenched fist.

This was the 70's. Only 10 years removed from the Civil Rights Bill.

Women were demanding greater rights.

Gay rights was in it's infancy.

It wasn't just blacks feeling like they needed some power.

Lennon was somebody to admire.

He inspired a lot of people. He was on the side of peace and morality and fair play.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It is a human made structure of power.

A structure where all real power is in the hands of a minority.

A structure where if you are not one of the dictators you either follow orders to the letter or you leave. There is no other choice.

What about if somebody is uniquely competent at a job? A surgeon has dictatorial powers in an operating theatre. Some would say that's a good thing? Running a company is hard. That's why we have CEO's. They're not doing nothing. We could argue that they're over-paid. But not having a competent CEO in charge is arguably better than everybody voting about everything. There's a reason companies like that don't survive in the market.

 

[untermensche]

It is a human made structure of power.

A structure where all real power is in the hands of a minority.

A structure where if you are not one of the dictators you either follow orders to the letter or you leave. There is no other choice.

What about if somebody is uniquely competent at a job? A surgeon has dictatorial powers in an operating theatre. Some would say that's a good thing? Running a company is hard. That's why we have CEO's. They're not doing nothing. We could argue that they're over-paid. But not having a competent CEO in charge is arguably better than everybody voting about everything. There's a reason companies like that don't survive in the market.

The surgeon is in service to the patient. He is their slave.

The capitalist dictator is in service to themselves.

All in the organization serve the dictator or they are not in the organization.

To succeed in such a system you have to either be a sick self-centered dictator or a spineless worm that wants to kiss the butts of dictators.

It is an evil system.

But people born into systems are many times completely blind to the injustices in those systems.

People born into slave societies fully accepted the morality of the system. (not the slaves)

They went to war because they saw nothing wrong with the slave system and wanted to preserve it.

 

[fromderinside]

Again you need to trust your lying senses.

You say the surgeon is slave of patient.

Yet surgeon cuts into patient, removes or changes stuff, puts the patient back together then is protected by discipline, practice and law against patient in most things.

On the other hand the patient must suffer the surgeons work, reside where the surgeon wants her, submit to procedures , practices, and humiliations including being put under anesthesia where she has no control whatever.

I say the surgeon is in control whilst the patient is subject to both disease that got her to the surgeon, facility where the surgeon practices, and protocols surgeon chooses to employ. In fact the patient must pay what the surgeon demands so saying the patient pays the surgeon for services is no lynchpin to having control.

 

[Bronzeage]

The difference between this thread and debating a toddler is, eventually the toddler will take a nap.

 

[DrZoidberg]

He was wealthy because people freely paid for his music. His music gave them pleasure they could not have without it. He did not steal from anybody.

He was no aristocrat. That is what got him killed. He went out of his way to try to make his fans happy.

'power to the people' came out as a slogan of black civil rights, along with a raised clenched fist.

This was the 70's. Only 10 years removed from the Civil Rights Bill.

Women were demanding greater rights.

Gay rights was in it's infancy.

It wasn't just blacks feeling like they needed some power.

Lennon was somebody to admire.

He inspired a lot of people. He was on the side of peace and morality and fair play.

What? I'd never thought I'd ever come to call you a corporate tool. He's rich because Disney and RKO manipulated copyright laws to the point of absurdity. And somehow managed to get the rest of the world to swallow their horseshit. Which is truly remarkable.

We've lost our compass completely regarding what is fair compensation to creators of copyright. Today it's bizarre what we waste our courts time with defending.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It is a human made structure of power.

A structure where all real power is in the hands of a minority.

A structure where if you are not one of the dictators you either follow orders to the letter or you leave. There is no other choice.

What about if somebody is uniquely competent at a job? A surgeon has dictatorial powers in an operating theatre. Some would say that's a good thing? Running a company is hard. That's why we have CEO's. They're not doing nothing. We could argue that they're over-paid. But not having a competent CEO in charge is arguably better than everybody voting about everything. There's a reason companies like that don't survive in the market.

The surgeon is in service to the patient. He is their slave.

The capitalist dictator is in service to themselves.

All in the organization serve the dictator or they are not in the organization.

To succeed in such a system you have to either be a sick self-centered dictator or a spineless worm that wants to kiss the butts of dictators.

It is an evil system.

But people born into systems are many times completely blind to the injustices in those systems.

People born into slave societies fully accepted the morality of the system. (not the slaves)

They went to war because they saw nothing wrong with the slave system and wanted to preserve it.

Oh, man. You really need to read Marx. I think you've failed to grasp all his most central tennets. Capitalists are slaves to the market. That's what Marx's problem with it was. They are NOT free. Because they are slaves and NOT free, they are perverted by the market to do evil, for the benefit of nobody. In Marx's concept the capitalist paradigm the world is like an ongoing rape where everybody is a victim, even the "perpetrators".

Not to be too harsh, but I think you have embraced a leftist cartoon of socialism, so common among the left today. People who want stuff for nothing and who've made out capitalists as evil cartoons more reminiscent of Sauron than anything Marx wrote about. It makes me sad, because I think Karl Marx is one of our greatest thinkers of all time. I think the current left besmirch his legacy. You as well.

Because of this haven't voted left for years, even though I'm very much a socialist

Somebody just being a slave doesn't make them good people. Another of Marx's tennets. All slaves will be awful people. That's his problem with slavery

 

[untermensche]

The difference between this thread and debating a toddler is, eventually the toddler will take a nap.

Why don't you take a nap then?

The child supports dictatorship without even knowing why.

The adult should reject it without problem.

Sometimes an adult finds themselves in a room of children.

 

[untermensche]

He was wealthy because people freely paid for his music. His music gave them pleasure they could not have without it. He did not steal from anybody.

He was no aristocrat. That is what got him killed. He went out of his way to try to make his fans happy.

'power to the people' came out as a slogan of black civil rights, along with a raised clenched fist.

This was the 70's. Only 10 years removed from the Civil Rights Bill.

Women were demanding greater rights.

Gay rights was in it's infancy.

It wasn't just blacks feeling like they needed some power.

Lennon was somebody to admire.

He inspired a lot of people. He was on the side of peace and morality and fair play.

What? I'd never thought I'd ever come to call you a corporate tool. He's rich because Disney and RKO manipulated copyright laws to the point of absurdity. And somehow managed to get the rest of the world to swallow their horseshit. Which is truly remarkable.

We've lost our compass completely regarding what is fair compensation to creators of copyright. Today it's bizarre what we waste our courts time with defending.

Who do you think should profit from a work of art?

And why do you care how much they profit if their profit is based on the free and uncoerced purchase of the art?