Free trade globalism has been a radical and spectacular failure with the result of populism - And here is why

[RVonse]

I have noticed a LOT of board members here pooping their pants over Trump, but he will come and go soon enough anyway. Too many are focusing only on the man but it is the populism that brought him to the White House anyway.

And you may think (thanks to CNN) that populism (nationalism) is bad, but it really isn't. Populism is not racist, nor is it sexist, or worried about religion (creed). It never has been, nor is Trump a racist either. All populism cares about is whether you are a citizen and whether you remain a sovereign nation. Populism defines the exact opposite of globalism which is really world wide communism (managed economy).

So stop falling for the circus playing on between Trump, CNN, corporate media, and others. There is no left vs right anymore anyway. Because the left went away during the Clinton years when they teamed up with big business and abandoned labor. All there really is now, is the party of Davos (Switzerland) and the party of Trump (populism). It is a singularity achieved where a majority of people in the world realized the radical and spectacular failure free trade globalism almost became. It started with Brexit and there is no turning back at this point.

The only question in my mind now is if the US will become populist under socialism (Bernie, et all) or populist under the conservative banner. The good news, is that either way you and I will be the better for it.

Communism just does not work. Not because the Soviet Union failed but it does not work because a top down managed economy has no efficient means to price and sell goods and services. Free market capitalism works because the lowest bottom members of the economy are making individual pricing decisions that the top members of the economy simply have no knowledge of. Yes free market capitalists are acting out of self interest but it is not the greed itself making it work well. It is the fact, that the individual who is going to the store to buy a pair of shoes knows better than anyone else how much money is in his pocket and how much money he will be willing to spend for new shoes.

My aforementioned discussion of communism is why globalism does not work. Globalism does not work because the people who meet at the economic summits in Davos are not smart. It is because those people simply can not know all that is going on at the lowest levels of the economy in other countries. The world is too big. Individual countries being different and separate nationalist entities is actually something to be celebrated. Because the nationalism and the borders that go along with the nationalism are what defines each individual country who are their own agents acting with self interest, just like individuals in a free market capitalistic economy. If you think about what almost could have happened with globalism, the experiment would have ended with the whole world being controlled and managed by top down bureaucrats. And no matter how smart those bureaucrats were, they could not possibly have been able to make pricing and supply chain decisions as well as local countries can as they interact with each other. Not even with the most powerful computers. Furthermore, the risk of a globalist economy being controlled by a monarchy or dictatorship would be enormous and just not worth it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Populism gave us the Great Depression. Populism gave us WWII.

Globalism mitigated Great Depression II into merely a Great Recession. Globalism has prevented WWIII.

Is global trade perfect? Nothing is perfect. Competition is always going to exist and some people need to understand that competition leads to efficiency and efficiency leads to job loss. The US economy is producing more than it ever has, but due to efficiency, many fewer people are needed to do it. This affects the office, the factory, all forms of employment.

We no longer have brakemen on trains, is this really a bad thing?

The biggest problem with populism is that it looks at the economy as a static entity, when it is anything but static. The desire for more money means trying to make processes more efficient, which means fewer jobs. Those former employees need to adapt. Populism lies to people and tries to tell them that they don't need to adapt, that nothing will change again. It is a lie, a stupid lie, a transparent lie. You aren't driving a Model T, so stop thinking the economy can be kept in the early 1900's.

 

[scombrid]

Because the nationalism and the borders that go along with the nationalism are what defines each individual country who are their own agents acting with self interest, just like individuals in a free market capitalistic economy. If you think about what almost could have happened with globalism, the experiment would have ended with the whole world being controlled and managed by top down bureaucrats. And no matter how smart those bureaucrats were, they could not possibly have been able to make pricing and supply chain decisions as well as local countries can as they interact with each other. Not even with the most powerful computers. Furthermore, the risk of a globalist economy being controlled by a monarchy or dictatorship would be enormous and just not worth it.

US Sovereignty was not under threat nor was UK's. Nation States were still nation states. That talk of "unelected bureaucrats" in the EU was a red herring. Complaining about them would be like a US citizen complaining about having to adhere to a treaty or trade agreement signed by the president and ratified by the senate because it wasn't voted in by popular referendum/direct vote by the people.

At what point was there some kind of plan for top down command and control of the entire world economy?

As I see it, there are certain global companies that want to split up international nation-state alliances because it is easier for them to control and manipulate isolated governments. That is certainly the way it is playing with Trump and his destruction of the EPA for the benefit of global energy companies.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I have noticed a LOT of board members here pooping their pants over Trump, but he will come and go soon enough anyway. Too many are focusing only on the man but it is the populism that brought him to the White House anyway.

And you may think (thanks to CNN) that populism (nationalism) is bad, but it really isn't. Populism is not racist, nor is it sexist, or worried about religion (creed). It never has been, nor is Trump a racist either. All populism cares about is whether you are a citizen and whether you remain a sovereign nation. Populism defines the exact opposite of globalism which is really world wide communism (managed economy).

So stop falling for the circus playing on between Trump, CNN, corporate media, and others. There is no left vs right anymore anyway. Because the left went away during the Clinton years when they teamed up with big business and abandoned labor. All there really is now, is the party of Davos (Switzerland) and the party of Trump (populism). It is a singularity achieved where a majority of people in the world realized the radical and spectacular failure free trade globalism almost became. It started with Brexit and there is no turning back at this point.

The only question in my mind now is if the US will become populist under socialism (Bernie, et all) or populist under the conservative banner. The good news, is that either way you and I will be the better for it.

Communism just does not work. Not because the Soviet Union failed but it does not work because a top down managed economy has no efficient means to price and sell goods and services. Free market capitalism works because the lowest bottom members of the economy are making individual pricing decisions that the top members of the economy simply have no knowledge of. Yes free market capitalists are acting out of self interest but it is not the greed itself making it work well. It is the fact, that the individual who is going to the store to buy a pair of shoes knows better than anyone else how much money is in his pocket and how much money he will be willing to spend for new shoes.

My aforementioned discussion of communism is why globalism does not work. Globalism does not work because the people who meet at the economic summits in Davos are not smart. It is because those people simply can not know all that is going on at the lowest levels of the economy in other countries. The world is too big. Individual countries being different and separate nationalist entities is actually something to be celebrated. Because the nationalism and the borders that go along with the nationalism are what defines each individual country who are their own agents acting with self interest, just like individuals in a free market capitalistic economy. If you think about what almost could have happened with globalism, the experiment would have ended with the whole world being controlled and managed by top down bureaucrats. And no matter how smart those bureaucrats were, they could not possibly have been able to make pricing and supply chain decisions as well as local countries can as they interact with each other. Not even with the most powerful computers. Furthermore, the risk of a globalist economy being controlled by a monarchy or dictatorship would be enormous and just not worth it.

I hate to tell you this, but you can't stop globalism. It's already here. You either have to embrace it with the challenges and opportunities that it presents, or you'll fall behind. The world is flat. Borders really don't mean as much today. I compete and work with foreigners many times without even knowing it. If you put a Trumpian wall and try to hide from it - you'll just fall further behind.

 

[RVonse]

Populism gave us the Great Depression. Populism gave us WWII.

Globalism mitigated Great Depression II into merely a Great Recession. Globalism has prevented WWIII.

l would have said just the opposite. That big time globalists like Hillary and lare J McCain were and still are the biggest war mongering warhawks to ever live. Perhaps you can better explain where you are coming from.

Is global trade perfect? Nothing is perfect. Competition is always going to exist and some people need to understand that competition leads to efficiency and efficiency leads to job loss. The US economy is producing more than it ever has, but due to efficiency, many fewer people are needed to do it. This affects the office, the factory, all forms of employment.

We no longer have brakemen on trains, is this really a bad thing?

Its not fear of job loss to modernization that populism is concerned about. All populism is addressing is how the county (as a whole) competes with the rest of the world.

P
The biggest problem with populism is that it looks at the economy as a static entity, when it is anything but static. The desire for more money means trying to make processes more efficient, which means fewer jobs. Those former employees need to adapt. Populism lies to people and tries to tell them that they don't need to adapt, that nothing will change again. It is a lie, a stupid lie, a transparent lie. You aren't driving a Model T, so stop thinking the economy can be kept in the early 1900's.

The most nationalistic country right now is Switzerland and they are not driving model T's. And please notice also, that Switzerland carefully avoids becoming involved in any military adventures, historically was a neutral country during WW2. If we could only become more like them!

 

[Jarhyn]

The most nationalistic country right now is Switzerland and they are not driving model T's. And please notice also, that Switzerland carefully avoids becoming involved in any military adventures, historically was a neutral country during WW2. If we could only become more like them!

Seriously? Switzerland makes their money on the back of globalism. They are an international banking center; they make their money by holding other foreign people's money. That's globalism.

 

[RVonse]

I hate to tell you this, but you can't stop globalism. It's already here. You either have to embrace it with the challenges and opportunities that it presents, or you'll fall behind. The world is flat. Borders really don't mean as much today. I compete and work with foreigners many times without even knowing it. If you put a Trumpian wall and try to hide from it - you'll just fall further behind.

The same kind of global trade was also here back in the late 1700's when we were trading with England. Back then we were trading our low value raw materials for their high value goods. Same exact trade relationship we have with China today. We eventually bettered ourselves with Britain and we can and hopefully do better with China moving forward.

China was successful to do what they did by taking advantage of a public brainwashed with media along with political corruption of both parties.

 

[RVonse]

The most nationalistic country right now is Switzerland and they are not driving model T's. And please notice also, that Switzerland carefully avoids becoming involved in any military adventures, historically was a neutral country during WW2. If we could only become more like them!

Seriously? Switzerland makes their money on the back of globalism. They are an international banking center; they make their money by holding other foreign people's money. That's globalism.

Banking is not globalism nor is economic trade with other countries.

What is meant by globalism is the loss of sovereignty to other world leaders and/or central committee's. The European union for example which Switzerland is NOT a part of.

 

[untermensche]

Nationalism is a form of human ignorance.

Deep deep ignorance.

The human ignorance that is willing to hurt anyone.

 

[RVonse]

At what point was there some kind of plan for top down command and control of the entire world economy?
.

As I see it, most of the corruption began during the Clinton regime when NAFTA trade and other agreements with China resulted in the destruction of high value jobs in the US. It started then but I would also place blame on other later presidents who continued what Clinton began.

- - - Updated - - -

Nationalism is a form of human ignorance.

Deep deep ignorance.

The human ignorance that is willing to hurt anyone.

Do you really believe the Swiss are ignorant? I don't.

 

[untermensche]

Nationalism is a form of human ignorance.

Deep deep ignorance.

The human ignorance that is willing to hurt anyone.

Do you really believe the Swiss are ignorant? I don't.

Culture is one thing. A nation another.

Culture is natural and has no distinct borders.

Nations are unnatural.

I have no connection to a supporter of Trump.

To say we are part of the same nation is pure abstraction and nothing natural.

 

[RVonse]

Nationalism is a form of human ignorance.

Deep deep ignorance.

The human ignorance that is willing to hurt anyone.

Do you really believe the Swiss are ignorant? I don't.

Culture is one thing. A nation another.

Culture is natural and has no distinct borders.

Nations are unnatural.

I have no connection to a supporter of Trump.

To say we are part of the same nation is pure abstraction and nothing natural.

I get it that you dont like Trump but it is probably NOT due to him being a populist. The reason I say that is because
Bernie Sanders is also a populist (nationalist) but he is a socialist populist.

Most people on this board can relate to Bernie, perhaps you can too.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Nationalism is a form of human ignorance.

Deep deep ignorance.

The human ignorance that is willing to hurt anyone.

Do you really believe the Swiss are ignorant? I don't.

Culture is one thing. A nation another.

Culture is natural and has no distinct borders.

Nations are unnatural.

I have no connection to a supporter of Trump.

To say we are part of the same nation is pure abstraction and nothing natural.

I served in the Air Force in the 1990's. I loved it. I was stationed in Germany. What an experience. We used to rent cars and drive all over Europe. We'd split the costs. I loved being in foreign places, experiencing the food, hearing the different languages, experiencing the culture. We had a great time. However, I remember that many US soldiers were very uncomfortable going off base. And they didn't need to go off base. A US base in Europe is a fully contained US City with stores, theatres, bars, barbers, and everything else. Many guys never left base. I used to ask them to come with us. And these were young guys. In my experience, there are many many Americans who are just terrified and intimidated by foreigners. I don't think that they are all biased. I just think that they were set in their ways and uncomfortable around people who look and act different than them. Anyway, just my 10 cents...

 

[untermensche]

Culture is one thing. A nation another.

Culture is natural and has no distinct borders.

Nations are unnatural.

I have no connection to a supporter of Trump.

To say we are part of the same nation is pure abstraction and nothing natural.

I get it that you dont like Trump but it is probably NOT due to him being a populist. The reason I say that is because
Bernie Sanders is also a populist (nationalist) but he is a socialist populist.

Most people on this board can relate to Bernie, perhaps you can too.

I can relate to some of the positions Bernie supports.

I relate to ideas, not people. Not some artificial boundary.

 

[untermensche]

Culture is one thing. A nation another.

Culture is natural and has no distinct borders.

Nations are unnatural.

I have no connection to a supporter of Trump.

To say we are part of the same nation is pure abstraction and nothing natural.

I originally served in the Air Force in the 1990's. I loved it. I was stationed in Germany. What an experience. We used to rent cars and drive all over Europe. We'd split the costs. I loved being in foreign places, experiencing the food, hearing the different languages, experiencing the culture. We had a great time. However, I remember that many US soldiers were very uncomfortable going off base. And they didn't need to go off base. A US base in Europe is a fully contained US City with stores, theatres, bars, barbers, and everything else. Many guys never left base. I used to ask them to come with us. And these were young guys. In my experience, there are many many Americans who are just terrified and intimidated by foreigners. I don't think that they are all biased. I just think that they were set in their ways and uncomfortable around people who look and act different than them. Anyway, just my 10 cents...

That shows a lack of curiosity, not fear.

Fear of strangers is somewhat natural. Trump knows this and uses carefully tested language to play on these fears.

But a complete lack of curiosity of incredible and different cultures is a pathology.

 

[Jarhyn]

Culture is one thing. A nation another.

Culture is natural and has no distinct borders.

Nations are unnatural.

I have no connection to a supporter of Trump.

To say we are part of the same nation is pure abstraction and nothing natural.

I originally served in the Air Force in the 1990's. I loved it. I was stationed in Germany. What an experience. We used to rent cars and drive all over Europe. We'd split the costs. I loved being in foreign places, experiencing the food, hearing the different languages, experiencing the culture. We had a great time. However, I remember that many US soldiers were very uncomfortable going off base. And they didn't need to go off base. A US base in Europe is a fully contained US City with stores, theatres, bars, barbers, and everything else. Many guys never left base. I used to ask them to come with us. And these were young guys. In my experience, there are many many Americans who are just terrified and intimidated by foreigners. I don't think that they are all biased. I just think that they were set in their ways and uncomfortable around people who look and act different than them. Anyway, just my 10 cents...

That shows a lack of curiosity, not fear.

Fear of strangers is somewhat natural. Trump knows this and uses carefully tested language to play on these fears.

But a complete lack of curiosity of incredible and different cultures is a pathology.

I wouldn't say trump tests any of his language carefully. Instead, he just spews out raw chaos and anything he says that has an effect he likes, he spews more of. It's like a brute force solution to the Chinese Room.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

So the choice is to isolate from the rest of the world, or to subsume your nation to an international identity?

Whatever happened to peaceful relations with all, entangling alliances with none? Like the Swiss?

 

[Elixir]

I wouldn't say trump tests any of his language carefully. Instead, he just spews out raw chaos and anything he says that has an effect he likes, he spews more of. It's like a brute force solution to the Chinese Room.

So throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks isn't "careful testing"? Trump has a tremendous, incredible natural instinct for science, so pasta pitching must be very scientifical.

 

[Elixir]

The entire RVonse treatise is belied by the facts. Every step the US has ever taken toward populism, isolationism and Nationalism has been followed by increased wealth gaps, poor economy, a more divided nation and usually wars... whereas Globalists like Obama have pulled the nation out of economic depression, have tried (with little or no success due to the interests of the military/industrial complex) to extract us from wars, and have generally improved the unity of national consciousness.
If populism was effective as RVonse asserts, Trump would have a roaring stock market and a booming economy without the injection of $1,500,000,000,00 borrowed dollars to prop it up - not the anemic performance, rapidly expanding wealth gap and burgeoning debt we have seen since the inertia of Obama's good work has run out.

Then there's the fact that the US has gone from world leader to world laughingstock... no biggie there, I suppose, since populists couldn't care less what anyone else thinks...

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Obama made the exact opposite of efforts to extract us from wars.