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Yellow Jacket uprising in France

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[YOUTUBE]T2tgIlEhOZE[/YOUTUBE]

Of course they white nationalists are trying to make this about white supremacism, Jewish banker conspiracies, etc., but it's pretty much about austerity politics that hurt the working class for the benefit of the wealthy.

Of course, Americans put up with far more austerity crap than the French because we are all just serfs who exist to serve the economic elites. America will put up with anything that benefits the aristocracy, but it looks like the rest of the Western world has had quite enough of austerity politics and increasing wealth gaps.
 
[YOUTUBE]T2tgIlEhOZE[/YOUTUBE]

Of course they white nationalists are trying to make this about white supremacism, Jewish banker conspiracies, etc., but it's pretty much about austerity politics that hurt the working class for the benefit of the wealthy.

Of course, Americans put up with far more austerity crap than the French because we are all just serfs who exist to serve the economic elites. America will put up with anything that benefits the aristocracy, but it looks like the rest of the Western world has had quite enough of austerity politics and increasing wealth gaps.

How do you define Austerity Crap? The US government spends a trillion dollars more per year than what it takes in taxes. If they spent 2 trillion more, would they be non austere?
 
Are you suggesting we should have a violent revolution? How exactly is that going to help solve anything? And, America used stimulus, not austerity during the last recession. It's true that the stimulus package would have been larger if not obstructed by the Republicans, but it seemed to be enough to get things moving again. Maybe I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Could you clarify?

The French are angry, at least in part because they don't want to pay high taxes plus they have lost their infatuation with Macron. Macron gave the upper few percent a tax break and was planning to pay for that with an increased fuel tax, but he backed off on that after the protests became violent. I could be wrong but that is what I gathered after reading about this for the last few weeks. To me, it seems as if the French want to keep their generous safety net and social programs but they don't want to pay the amount of taxes that it takes to support these programs. France's taxes are far more progressive than the US. The French protesters are also upset over stagnant wages. There is probably more to it, but that's the impression I got from reading about this. Perhaps some kind, more informed European can help shed more light on this.

So, what exactly is the solution?

Fyi. I can't get the sound to work on the computer I'm using today, so I couldn't watch your video. My reply is based on several articles that I've read in the MSM.
 
There is probably more to it, but that's the impression I got from reading about this. Perhaps some kind, more informed European can help shed more light on this.

I found the following, from an American now living in France, interesting. The author is one Pamela Anderson -yes, that Pamela Anderson- apparently channeling Karl Polanyi:

Pamela Anderson said:
"Yellow Vests" ("Gilets Jaune" named after roadside-safety vests) are a mass popular movement against the current establishment. It is a revolt that has been simmering in France for years. A revolt by ordinary people against the current political system which - as in many other western countries – colludes with the elite and despises its own citizens.

The protest started when President Macron announced an increase in carbon and air pollution taxes. The next increase will happen in January. This is supposed to collect more money for the state budget and also motivate people to use alternatives to diesel-fuelled cars. Macron would like to ban diesel cars by 2040.

But the French state encouraged people to buy diesel fuelled cars for many years. For example, in 2016, 62% of cars in France were diesel cars, as well as 95% of all vans and small lorries. So it is no wonder that many people view the new policy as a total betrayal.

Getting a new car is probably not a big deal for President Macron and his ministers. But it is way too difficult for many people who are already financially stretched to the max . Many poor people will not be able to get to work, especially if there is no reliable public transport in place throughout. Many old people will not be able to get to the shops or to the doctor.

Lots of media see Yellow Vests protesters as criminals causing destruction.

I see forces of destruction on the other side.

What about the violence?

I am a committed pacifist. I despise violence. But I also know that when protests end in violence it is too often the failure and the fault of the state. The failure of the state to enable people to be heard. This is the position of many international human rights organisations including Amnesty International.

Also, the critics of "violent riots" pretend that the current capitalist society is non-violent. Violence is a part of modern society and comes in many forms.

For example, Philippe Bourgois recognises four types of violence.

Political violence is conducted in the name of some state power or ideology.

Structural violence concerns the political and economic order of society in which the conditions of inequality and exploitation are institutionalised, including the exploitation of "cheap labour" and natural resources in the developing world.

Symbolic violence is involved when the oppressed and powerless internalize their humiliation and inequality.

And finally, everyday violence is the violence of "ordinary" life, such as criminality or domestic violence. This violence is often closely linked to structural violence (for example criminality can be associated with poverty) or a symbolic one (domestic violence can be linked to gender inequality).

So what is the violence of all these people and burned luxurious cars compared to the structural violence of the French and global elites?

When some protesters destroy cars and burn shops, they symbolically attack private property that is the basis of capitalism. When they attack police officers, they symbolically reject and challenge repressive state forces - forces that primarily protect capital.

Moralising about burned cars and banks’ broken windows is misplaced. This must be seen in the context of the current status quo. A status quo in which the power of the powerful and the powerlessness of the powerless is maintained. A status quo of societies where only a few profit and the many lose.

(more...)
 
To me, it seems as if the French want to keep their generous safety net and social programs but they don't want to pay the amount of taxes that it takes to support these programs.

It's not that they don't want to pay the taxes, it's that the tax breaks which have been given out have been disproportionately going to the top 1% and the loss in revenue coming from that has been made up by slashing social programs and increasing taxes on the bottom percentiles. The gas tax itself is simply the straw which broke the camel's back over the issues of inequality within the French system.
 
[YOUTUBE]T2tgIlEhOZE[/YOUTUBE]

Of course they white nationalists are trying to make this about white supremacism, Jewish banker conspiracies, etc., but it's pretty much about austerity politics that hurt the working class for the benefit of the wealthy.

Of course, Americans put up with far more austerity crap than the French because we are all just serfs who exist to serve the economic elites. America will put up with anything that benefits the aristocracy, but it looks like the rest of the Western world has had quite enough of austerity politics and increasing wealth gaps.

Austerity is about people stopping with spending money that they don't have. Why would that be a bad thing?
 
To me, it seems as if the French want to keep their generous safety net and social programs but they don't want to pay the amount of taxes that it takes to support these programs.

It's not that they don't want to pay the taxes, it's that the tax breaks which have been given out have been disproportionately going to the top 1% and the loss in revenue coming from that has been made up by slashing social programs and increasing taxes on the bottom percentiles. The gas tax itself is simply the straw which broke the camel's back over the issues of inequality within the French system.
I understand Macron abolished wealth tax, top income tax is still pretty ridiculous and got higher with Macron (according to wikipedia it went from 41 to 45) I suspect we have a case of protesters who are not good at math and Government which is not good at realizing that people are not good at math.
In any case, France is known for riots. Macron should have known better when he tried to make France like Germany.
 
[YOUTUBE]T2tgIlEhOZE[/YOUTUBE]

Of course they white nationalists are trying to make this about white supremacism, Jewish banker conspiracies, etc., but it's pretty much about austerity politics that hurt the working class for the benefit of the wealthy.

Of course, Americans put up with far more austerity crap than the French because we are all just serfs who exist to serve the economic elites. America will put up with anything that benefits the aristocracy, but it looks like the rest of the Western world has had quite enough of austerity politics and increasing wealth gaps.

Austerity is about people stopping with spending money that they don't have. Why would that be a bad thing?

It wouldn't be bad for a firm or household.

It's bad for a currency issuer to "save", i.e. run a budget surplus, i.e. tax more out of the private sector than it spends in during a slowdown in economic activity because it will probably further slow down economic activity.

It's more complex with Eurozone countries whose govts no longer issue their own currencies and cannot devalue (devaluing your currency isn't necessarily bad).

The problem with the EU is the Euro


..or, more specifically, ECB (the currency issuer's) policy, which is pretty much monetarism. That is crazy in a currency union of economies as different as Germany and Greece, and likely to produce creditor/debtor standoffs manifesting as ugly politics.
 
[YOUTUBE]T2tgIlEhOZE[/YOUTUBE]

Of course they white nationalists are trying to make this about white supremacism, Jewish banker conspiracies, etc., but it's pretty much about austerity politics that hurt the working class for the benefit of the wealthy.

Of course, Americans put up with far more austerity crap than the French because we are all just serfs who exist to serve the economic elites. America will put up with anything that benefits the aristocracy, but it looks like the rest of the Western world has had quite enough of austerity politics and increasing wealth gaps.

Austerity is about people stopping with spending money that they don't have. Why would that be a bad thing?

It wouldn't be bad for a firm or household.

It's bad for a currency issuer to "save", i.e. run a budget surplus, i.e. tax more out of the private sector than it spends in during a slowdown in economic activity because it will probably further slow down economic activity.

It's more complex with Eurozone countries whose govts no longer issue their own currencies and cannot devalue (devaluing your currency isn't necessarily bad).

The problem with the EU is the Euro


..or, more specifically, ECB (the currency issuer's) policy, which is pretty much monetarism. That is crazy in a currency union of economies as different as Germany and Greece, and likely to produce creditor/debtor standoffs manifesting as ugly politics.

Fair enough. But would you agree that the Trump administration is far far from austere! The US government is currently spending a trillion more per year than what we take in! And that's during good times. I know that Trump is trying to claim how he battling the budget with a sabre saw!
 
[YOUTUBE]T2tgIlEhOZE[/YOUTUBE]

Of course they white nationalists are trying to make this about white supremacism, Jewish banker conspiracies, etc., but it's pretty much about austerity politics that hurt the working class for the benefit of the wealthy.

Of course, Americans put up with far more austerity crap than the French because we are all just serfs who exist to serve the economic elites. America will put up with anything that benefits the aristocracy, but it looks like the rest of the Western world has had quite enough of austerity politics and increasing wealth gaps.

Austerity is about people stopping with spending money that they don't have. Why would that be a bad thing?

It wouldn't be bad for a firm or household.

It's bad for a currency issuer to "save", i.e. run a budget surplus, i.e. tax more out of the private sector than it spends in during a slowdown in economic activity because it will probably further slow down economic activity.

It's more complex with Eurozone countries whose govts no longer issue their own currencies and cannot devalue (devaluing your currency isn't necessarily bad).

The problem with the EU is the Euro


..or, more specifically, ECB (the currency issuer's) policy, which is pretty much monetarism. That is crazy in a currency union of economies as different as Germany and Greece, and likely to produce creditor/debtor standoffs manifesting as ugly politics.

Well... not quite. But it does require politicians to plan ahead more and be more fiscally careful. Which certainly is a doomed project. This is why Sweden didn't join the Euro. It turned out very well for us. But belonging to the Euro has turned out well for Germany and Holland etc.
 
It wouldn't be bad for a firm or household.

It's bad for a currency issuer to "save", i.e. run a budget surplus, i.e. tax more out of the private sector than it spends in during a slowdown in economic activity because it will probably further slow down economic activity.

It's more complex with Eurozone countries whose govts no longer issue their own currencies and cannot devalue (devaluing your currency isn't necessarily bad).

The problem with the EU is the Euro


..or, more specifically, ECB (the currency issuer's) policy, which is pretty much monetarism. That is crazy in a currency union of economies as different as Germany and Greece, and likely to produce creditor/debtor standoffs manifesting as ugly politics.

Fair enough. But would you agree that the Trump administration is far far from austere! The US government is currently spending a trillion more per year than what we take in! And that's during good times. I know that Trump is trying to claim how he battling the budget with a sabre saw!

Who cares about his intentions or what he says? But Trump is retarded. I doubt anybody expects much from that moron anymore. We all know he'll fuck up anything he touches. We're just waiting for the next election so Americans can elect adults to the White House again.
 
It wouldn't be bad for a firm or household.

It's bad for a currency issuer to "save", i.e. run a budget surplus, i.e. tax more out of the private sector than it spends in during a slowdown in economic activity because it will probably further slow down economic activity.

It's more complex with Eurozone countries whose govts no longer issue their own currencies and cannot devalue (devaluing your currency isn't necessarily bad).

The problem with the EU is the Euro


..or, more specifically, ECB (the currency issuer's) policy, which is pretty much monetarism. That is crazy in a currency union of economies as different as Germany and Greece, and likely to produce creditor/debtor standoffs manifesting as ugly politics.

Well... not quite. But it does require politicians to plan ahead more and be more fiscally careful. Which certainly is a doomed project. This is why Sweden didn't join the Euro. It turned out very well for us. But belonging to the Euro has turned out well for Germany and Holland etc.

Not quite what? What does "fiscally careful" mean? Sweden has the typical Scandinavian public spend of ~50% of GDP. UK public spending is ~40% of GDP and US public spending ~37%. Yet the UK and US have the big deficits. If Sweden's yer example, "fiscally careful" would appear to mean something rather different from what the ECB means.
 
It wouldn't be bad for a firm or household.

It's bad for a currency issuer to "save", i.e. run a budget surplus, i.e. tax more out of the private sector than it spends in during a slowdown in economic activity because it will probably further slow down economic activity.

It's more complex with Eurozone countries whose govts no longer issue their own currencies and cannot devalue (devaluing your currency isn't necessarily bad).

The problem with the EU is the Euro


..or, more specifically, ECB (the currency issuer's) policy, which is pretty much monetarism. That is crazy in a currency union of economies as different as Germany and Greece, and likely to produce creditor/debtor standoffs manifesting as ugly politics.

Well... not quite. But it does require politicians to plan ahead more and be more fiscally careful. Which certainly is a doomed project. This is why Sweden didn't join the Euro. It turned out very well for us. But belonging to the Euro has turned out well for Germany and Holland etc.

Not quite what? What does "fiscally careful" mean? Sweden has the typical Scandinavian public spend of ~50% of GDP. UK public spending is ~40% of GDP and US public spending ~37%. Yet the UK and US have the big deficits. If Sweden's yer example, "fiscally careful" would appear to mean something rather different from what the ECB means.

I think you're actually agreeing with me.
 
[YOUTUBE]T2tgIlEhOZE[/YOUTUBE]

Of course they white nationalists are trying to make this about white supremacism, Jewish banker conspiracies, etc., but it's pretty much about austerity politics that hurt the working class for the benefit of the wealthy.

Of course, Americans put up with far more austerity crap than the French because we are all just serfs who exist to serve the economic elites. America will put up with anything that benefits the aristocracy, but it looks like the rest of the Western world has had quite enough of austerity politics and increasing wealth gaps.

Austerity is about people stopping with spending money that they don't have. Why would that be a bad thing?

If you really want an answer to that, read this book:

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/austerity-9780199389445?cc=us&lang=en&
 
[YOUTUBE]T2tgIlEhOZE[/YOUTUBE]

Of course they white nationalists are trying to make this about white supremacism, Jewish banker conspiracies, etc., but it's pretty much about austerity politics that hurt the working class for the benefit of the wealthy.

Of course, Americans put up with far more austerity crap than the French because we are all just serfs who exist to serve the economic elites. America will put up with anything that benefits the aristocracy, but it looks like the rest of the Western world has had quite enough of austerity politics and increasing wealth gaps.

Austerity is about people stopping with spending money that they don't have. Why would that be a bad thing?

If you really want an answer to that, read this book:

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/austerity-9780199389445?cc=us&lang=en&

Of course austerity hurts. The question is whether not doing it will end up hurting worse in the long run.
 
Now in it’s eighth week and no sign of the yellow jackets backing down. Macron’s government looking increasingly shakey. And yet not much news coverage, pourquoi BBC.
 
Now in it’s eighth week and no sign of the yellow jackets backing down. Macron’s government looking increasingly shakey. And yet not much news coverage, pourquoi BBC.
I've been following the mess all eight weeks and it looks like the difficulty France will have solving it is steadily increasing as different factions of the demonstrators express their demands. Some demand lower taxes, some demand higher wages, some demand more government benefit programs, some want 'Frexit', many want Macron ousted, some want jobs, some oppose the immigrates, some are communists, some are antifa, etc. It seems that some group of the demonstrators can be found that are demanding almost any cause imaginable.

The French uprising, Germany's problems, Venezuela's problems, etc. would all have been big news for the U.S. media not that long ago but are barely if ever mentioned. Now about all the U.S. media covers is U.S. politics and Trump. WTF happened to our media?
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/world/europe/yellow-vest-france-arrest-eric-drouet.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fworld&action=click&contentCollection=world&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=30&pgtype=sectionfront

ARIS — The French police have arrested a prominent leader of the Yellow Vest movement for a second time, in a clear sign that the government is following through on a pledge to crack down on the protests that have shaken France for much of the past six weeks.

Éric Drouet, a 33-year-old truck driver from the Paris exurbs who was one of the original organizers of the movement, was arrested Wednesday night in Paris for what the authorities said was “organizing an undeclared demonstration.” On Thursday, he was released pending a trial.

“We’ve got to shock public opinion,” Mr. Drouet said in a video on Facebook before going to the Place de le Concorde on Wednesday and placing candles for the movement’s wounded. He called for “action” on the Champs-Élysées, where several dozen Yellow Vests were waiting for him that evening outside a McDonald’s restaurant.

Instead, shortly after 9 p.m., Mr. Drouet was hustled into a police van by riot police officers.

French law requires the organizers of street demonstrations to inform the local authorities about their plans. Violations can bring six months in jail and a fine of 7,500 euros, about $8,500.


The NYTimes had at least four stories about the yellow jacket movement since last month. The most recent one was from Jan. 3rd. You can see the rest of their coverage at the bottom of my linked story. The Times allows you to read 10 articles a month if you aren't a subscriber. If you're interested in more world news, subscribe to the NYT for 15 bucks a month for unlimited coverage. There's a lot going on in the world. Even the Times can't cover what's going on in every country every single day.
 
Here's one from the AP that was published in WaPo yesterday. WaPo doesn't always allow nonsubscriber to read linked articles, like the NYT does.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/paris-protesters-try-to-revive-yellow-vest-movement/2019/01/05/6bed186c-10ea-11e9-8f0c-6f878a26288a_story.html?utm_term=.ec44cb68481d


The march on the eighth consecutive Saturday of yellow vest protests had been declared in advance and approved, in contrast to some illegal December demonstrations that degenerated into vandalism, looting and chaos.

The atmosphere mostly was calm, but turned when some protesters tried to cross the river on a pedestrian bridge not on the official route from City Hall to the National Assembly, the lower house of parliament. Police used clubs and tear gas, then held the bridge in a standoff while violence broke out.

Some confrontations between police and protesters took place in other cities around France, with tear gas fired in Bordeaux in the southwest and in Rouen in Normandy.

So, there are somef US news sources that are following this movement in France.
 
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