The Decline Of Influence Of Christianity in USA

[steve_bank]

The Roman's considered religion essential to maintaining order. Whether they believed or not was not the issue.

As American Christianity fades in influence the question is what replaces it as a social glie.

People now quote movies and music as metaphor. Morality comes from music these days. In the 60s people took Bob Dylan as a prophet even when he said there was no particular meaning in his music.

 

[DBT]

Science and Philosophy?

 

[abaddon]

A story. It doesn't have to be a supernatural/religious story, but it does have to hold some culturally shared ideals that are esteemed.

I keep thinking of the evolutionary story some atheists tell in response to "so what's the meaning of life?" They say "To make babies and pass on my genes, that's the only use evolution has for me. Otherwise, I have a family, a job, and some hobbies."

It doesn't matter if anyone thinks "that's a fact", it is a story about the world too. Though a very droll one and reductive one.

A better, less reductive and less anthropocentric, more ecological and culture-wide story would be a good idea. Maybe along the lines of "We're expressions of nature like all life, but life that has become self-aware (as facets of earthly nature), and each with a unique gift that's at once both self-expression and social contribution". Again, doesn't need any supernatural elements. But it'll be a myth no matter what, because all "storying" about the world is that. We're primarily story-making animals. Facts too, when put together, make a story. Myths are not just the bronze-age tales found in holy books that some stupid superstitious people got overly 'literal' about as "the truth".

 

[rousseau]

The same thing that's always been our social glue: the economy.

When Christianity was at it's peak in the medieval period violence was more prevalent then it is today, and that was because of widespread economic insecurity. Religion isn't needed to keep the peace, food security is.

 

[Politesse]

The Roman's considered religion essential to maintaining order. Whether they believed or not was not the issue.

As American Christianity fades in influence the question is what replaces it as a social glie.

People now quote movies and music as metaphor. Morality comes from music these days. In the 60s people took Bob Dylan as a prophet even when he said there was no particular meaning in his music.

There are a number of things which play similar roles. Civic ritual and authorities, sporting organizations, music and media fandoms and the connected celebrity class, the medical and university systems, and corporations. All have borrowed the structure and some of the social functions of religion while contributing new and relevant versions of the ancient myths. Surely you do not think it accidental that our most lucrative titles in media are all fantasies? Or that our civic and institutional public rituals are often as elaborate and symbolically obtuse as any Catholic mass? A theoretical extraterrestrial anthropologist would be likely confused at first by the perceived difference between a Christian ordination and a governmental inauguration, if they were just watching the rituals themselves without any context.

And, of course, there are other religions.

 

[repoman]

Intersectionality, what can go wrong?

 

[southernhybrid]

One of my sisters left Christianity many years ago, but she replaced it with all kinds of nutty woo. She believes in fortune tellers, the magic of certain herbs, spirits, etc. At least she doesn't think I'm going to hell anymore. Unfortunately, the other sister still does.

 

[Lion IRC]

If religion really is a form of social glue, and the people reject it, why presume they want to replace it with another form of glue? It might be glue that people dislike - rather than religion.

The attraction of atheism is precisely its lack of...well...to put it bluntly - glue.

 

[Rhea]

If religion really is a form of social glue, and the people reject it, why presume they want to replace it with another form of glue? It might be glue that people dislike - rather than religion.

The attraction of atheism is precisely its lack of...well...to put it bluntly - glue.

What?
No.
Atheism is not “attractive” it just is. I’m an atheist because religions just don’t make any stormin sense. Atheism isn’t some “attractive choice,” it’s just what you are when the descriptions of gods sound like fairy tales.

 

[DBT]

The attraction of atheism is precisely its lack of...well...to put it bluntly - glue.

You know exactly what it's like to be an atheist, because you are one. Your atheism is relative. You are a relative atheist. Your atheism is related to all the gods and versions of God that you have no belief in...Brahma, Krishna, Shiva, etc, etc.....

 

[abaddon]

The attraction of atheism is precisely its lack of...well...to put it bluntly - glue.

You know exactly what it's like to be an atheist, because you are one. Your atheism is relative. You are a relative atheist. Your atheism is related to all the gods and versions of God that you have no belief in...Brahma, Krishna, Shiva, etc, etc.....

This is one of atheism's weakest arguments. Even IF a theist thought the other gods didn't exist in the same sense their God exists, they must still fail at understanding atheism. They don't "lack" a belief in other gods, they demote them to a lesser status than their God. To some theists they're incomplete realizations of God, to others they're demons leading "heathens" astray.

To Lion, atheism is hedonist/immoral abandon in defiance of God. It's godlessness, which isn't a lack of god-belief but a kind of faithlessness.

So, no, Lion like so many theists cannot conceive what it's like to be an atheist.

 

[DBT]

I didn't really expect to make any headway with the remark, but made it anyway, perhaps there was an element of hope at work......

 

[funinspace]

If religion really is a form of social glue, and the people reject it, why presume they want to replace it with another form of glue? It might be glue that people dislike - rather than religion.

The attraction of atheism is precisely its lack of...well...to put it bluntly - glue.

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

― Mahatma Gandhi

 

[ideologyhunter]

Sometimes that's good. A lot of Christian churches don't go on & on about hell and the gnashing of teeth like the Prince o' Peace did. (Y'know, if you leave out the Helter Skelter business, Charlie Manson had some wisdom to impart on recycling, dumpster diving, and getting back to nature.) Know when to edit your guru.

 

[Lion IRC]

I didn't really expect to make any headway with the remark, but made it anyway, perhaps there was an element of hope at work......

Of course it didn't make any headway.
I don't defend Christian Particularism. I'm NOT just an atheist who believes in zero gods +1
Every time folks ask me if I believe in Thor or Ra or Zeus I monotonously post a picture of blind men feeling different parts of an elephant.

 

[bilby]

I didn't really expect to make any headway with the remark, but made it anyway, perhaps there was an element of hope at work......

Of course it didn't make any headway.
I don't defend Christian Particularism. I'm NOT just an atheist who believes in zero gods +1
Every time folks ask me if I believe in Thor or Ra or Zeus I monotonously post a picture of blind men feeling different parts of an elephant.

Thereby repeatedly demonstrating your inability to reason, and your massive (and misplaced) egotism in believing that you are able to see the bigger picture, despite having no excuse whatsoever for pretending to be less blind than everyone else.

It's a sad indictment of our education system's failure to teach epistemology. But it's assuredly not evidence that you are not wildly and hilariously wrong about pretty much everything.

 

[James Brown]

I didn't really expect to make any headway with the remark, but made it anyway, perhaps there was an element of hope at work......

Of course it didn't make any headway.
I don't defend Christian Particularism. I'm NOT just an atheist who believes in zero gods +1
Every time folks ask me if I believe in Thor or Ra or Zeus I monotonously post a picture of blind men feeling different parts of an elephant.

If all religions are just "blind men feeling a different part of the same elephant" then idolatry is not a sin. Imagine the blind man feeling the trunk telling the blind man feeling the leg, "You are a heretic and are in error. Repent or be damned."

If every god worshiper is worshiping the One True God, then Evangelicals should cease and desist their missionary work and instead devote their resources to eliminating poverty.

 

[Lion IRC]

Being blind is not a sin.

 

[James Brown]

Being blind is not a sin.

I didn't say it was.

 

[DBT]

I didn't really expect to make any headway with the remark, but made it anyway, perhaps there was an element of hope at work......

Of course it didn't make any headway.
I don't defend Christian Particularism. I'm NOT just an atheist who believes in zero gods +1
Every time folks ask me if I believe in Thor or Ra or Zeus I monotonously post a picture of blind men feeling different parts of an elephant.

I didn't say that you were an atheist who believes in zero gods +1. I said that you are a theist who has no belief in the gods that others believe exist, only your own.