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The Southern Baptist sex scandals

 
 
 
S

southernhybrid

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Has anyone else been following the news regarding the children who have been sexually abused by preachers and volunteers in a large number of Southern Baptist Churches? I realize that predators can exist in any type of large organization, but I find it especially appalling that the SB's apparently tried to cover up some of these crimes and they've refused, at least in the past, to report these crimes or to even come up with a list of abusers as a warning to other churches. Child abuse in churches. It's not just for Catholic priests anymore. :mad: To date, the evidence suggests that over 700 children and teens have been victims of abuse.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-southern-baptist-sexual-abuse-cal-thomas-0215-20190214-story.html

The reporting by the Houston Chronicle, San Antonio Express-News and The Washington Post should turn any stomach. Most Baptists have had children in their Sunday school programs. What must they be thinking as they ponder whether to ask their child, who by now might be a teen or an adult, if they had ever been abused by a teacher, pastor or counselor?

The Washington Post reports: “… instead of ensuring that sexual predators were kept at bay, the Southern Baptist Convention, resisted policy changes. … Victims accused church leaders of mishandling their complaints, even hiding them from the public.”

The Post notes that while a majority of abusers have been convicted and are now registered as sex offenders, “the investigation found that at least three dozen pastors, employees and volunteers who showed predatory behavior still worked at churches.”

One explanation for such behavior — it's not the only one — appeared in a 2018 article in Christianity Today magazine: “Most pastors have struggled with porn.”

That's according to an online study of nearly 3,000 adults, teenagers and pastors by the Barna Group. The study included 432 pastors and 338 youth pastors, and was commissioned by Josh McDowell Ministry and Cru (formerly known as Campus Crusade for Christ).
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It's also happened with the Mormons and a bunch of amateur sports. Any time you have an organization where adults interact with groups of children, it seems like you're going to have occasions where you get sexual predators using the organization as a way to get to some victims. That's truly horrific, but it's even more horrific when you have others in those organizations consider the reputation of the organization to be more important than the victims of abuse so they try to cover it up or "handle it internally" rather than publicly freak the fuck out about how their organization was used as a way to enable this sort of thing and shine a massive fucking spotlight on it in order to try and figure out a way to not have it happen again.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
It's also happened with the Mormons and a bunch of amateur sports. Any time you have an organization where adults interact with groups of children, it seems like you're going to have occasions where you get sexual predators using the organization as a way to get to some victims. That's truly horrific, but it's even more horrific when you have others in those organizations consider the reputation of the organization to be more important than the victims of abuse so they try to cover it up or "handle it internally" rather than publicly freak the fuck out about how their organization was used as a way to enable this sort of thing and shine a massive fucking spotlight on it in order to try and figure out a way to not have it happen again.
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Exactly this.
 
That, and the overarching principle that people who are a part of and financially dependent on an organization are always going to look out for themselves before they do victims. If someone's livelihood is on the line it's pretty clear what choice is going to be made.

So we can continue to sit here with our moral outrage, but realistically it's never going to stop until:

a) the opportunities for abuse go away
b) there is more independent oversight on organizations that perpetrate this behavior
 
That stuff is old news. Over the last 40 years there have be numerous scandals involving prominent Christians.
 
I guess this one hit me more personally because I was forced to attend a very conservative Baptist church throughout my childhood. Hopefully, there weren't any sexual predators in that church.I was never aware of that problem. Some would say that the church teachings themselves, the guilt and condemnation toward non believers were abusive enough to the developing minds of young children. While I escaped from this disgusting belief system, I feel that it did do emotional damage to my younger sister, who has been the victim of guilt and anxiety throughout her life. But, I digress.

The church I attended was the northern version of the SB. It's the self righteous piety of this type of Christian that makes me so disgusted. These folks condemn gay people, condemn sexual activity outside of heterosexual marriage, but then cover up the sexual predators in their own communities. The church leaders considered having a list of predators in 2013 that could be reported to other SB churches but decided against that. After all, why try to prevent more children from being harmed when it might make them and their sick religious message look bad?

I realize that this type of thing happens wherever large organizations have adults interacting with children, but it's the hypocrisy that I find especially disgusting in this particular situation.
 
Yes. Religion is the paragon of morality for so many people in the U.S. so I doubt that this will dent that affliction.

I think that many religious people use religion to control their own recognized demons. For some psychological reason they identify with sexual predation, and even if they are able to control it in themselves they are unable to confront it as criminal behavior, see and deal with it for what it is. Calling out gays and atheists is really projecting, they actually see themselves as the problem and somehow demonizing others makes up for their own criminal inclinations.

Religion is not a complete cesspool but it certainly has its share of turds.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
It's also happened with the Mormons and a bunch of amateur sports. Any time you have an organization where adults interact with groups of children, it seems like you're going to have occasions where you get sexual predators using the organization as a way to get to some victims. That's truly horrific, but it's even more horrific when you have others in those organizations consider the reputation of the organization to be more important than the victims of abuse so they try to cover it up or "handle it internally" rather than publicly freak the fuck out about how their organization was used as a way to enable this sort of thing and shine a massive fucking spotlight on it in order to try and figure out a way to not have it happen again.
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^common sense^
:clapping:

I would add that much of what was 'covered up' was unsubstantiated gossip and hearsay, as well as activities which the victims themselves wanted covered up.

Mandatory reporting...
"...well, officer, I'd like to report a rumour I heard from someone who wants to remain anonymous. You just gotta believe me. Have a little faith"
 
And I'm not sure why the narrative of this entire saga STILL revolves around self-regulation and self-policing and voluntary reporting by the institution where those crimes allegedly took place.

Why is the (anti-religion) secular media acting as if the local bishop is the most logical person we should rely upon to instigate and pursue the prosecution of pedophiles hiding in the clergy? Shouldn't the police be doing that? Why, if it really is a case of the fox being in charge of the hen house, would we expect the fox to report a few missing hens?

Time and time again I find myself reading anti-church polemics declaring as a fact, that Bishop "X" knew about [a gazillion] sexual abuse accusations for decades and did nothing. But the only way such a claim about Bishop "X" could be true, is if a gazillion accusers ALSO knew and did nothing.
 
Lion IRC said:
And I'm not sure why the narrative of this entire saga STILL revolves around self-regulation and self-policing and voluntary reporting by the institution where those crimes allegedly took place.

Why is the (anti-religion) secular media acting as if the local bishop is the most logical person we should rely upon to instigate and pursue the prosecution of pedophiles hiding in the clergy? Shouldn't the police be doing that? Why, if it really is a case of the fox being in charge of the hen house, would we expect the fox to report a few missing hens?

Time and time again I find myself reading anti-church polemics declaring as a fact, that Bishop "X" knew about [a gazillion] sexual abuse accusations for decades and did nothing. But the only way such a claim about Bishop "X" could be true, is if a gazillion accusers ALSO knew and did nothing.
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You are absolutely right. If an eight year old victim who is being threatened with dire consequences if they tell anyone what happened doesn't file a police report, then it's completely unreasonable to expect an adult whose job it is to supervise the perpetrator to file one when they become aware of the crimes. :rolleyes:
 
Lion IRC said:
And I'm not sure why the narrative of this entire saga STILL revolves around self-regulation and self-policing and voluntary reporting by the institution where those crimes allegedly took place.

Why is the (anti-religion) secular media acting as if the local bishop is the most logical person we should rely upon to instigate and pursue the prosecution of pedophiles hiding in the clergy? Shouldn't the police be doing that? Why, if it really is a case of the fox being in charge of the hen house, would we expect the fox to report a few missing hens?

Time and time again I find myself reading anti-church polemics declaring as a fact, that Bishop "X" knew about [a gazillion] sexual abuse accusations for decades and did nothing. But the only way such a claim about Bishop "X" could be true, is if a gazillion accusers ALSO knew and did nothing.
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You are blaming children for not reporting abuses inflicted on them in a timely manner, while apparently holding the church leaders blameless for knowingly sheltering and enabling their abusers. For years, sometimes decades. That is the truly horrific part - that the church leaders often knew about the abuses, and in many cases chose to do nothing to stop the criminal priests.

This is why religion is so abhorrent. It corrupts the minds of otherwise rational, compassionate people and leaves them unable to distinguish right from wrong. Shame on you.

EDIT: Also important to note: while Lion is trying to implicate children in not being timely reporters, and the Church leaders acting as enablers of the pedophile priests, the Christian god also has a role to play. God watched children being raped and sodomized, but stood by and did nothing. Other than random acts of intervention usually involving violence and murder, and plagues and infestations of regional and global extent, God always stands by and does nothing.
 
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Where did I ..apparently hold the church leaders blameless for knowingly sheltering and enabling their abusers.?

Any adult who knew something and didn't report it is blameworthy.

Parents (who weren't, themselves, also abusers with a dirty little secret to hide)
Family friends (ditto above)
Teachers...(yeah! You saw the signs too didn't you.)
Journalists...(no protecting your anonymous sources - we're talking about child rape FFS!)
Lawyers...(no professional privilege for you you gutless wonders)

And yes, all those stupid and egotistical church hierarchy officials who knew something and did nothing. Those blind Pharisees who didn't really believe the words of Jesus, when He said that He - not they - would ensure that not even the gates of hell would prevail against His Kingdom. What church leader could possibly miss Jesus' stark warning to Nicodemus that the way you defeat evil (like closet pedophiles hiding in the clergy) is with the Truth. Because darkness hates the light.

Which "teacher of the law" could miss Jesus' laser-guided irony (sarcasm?) when He declares that "men loved the darkness rather than the Light" and He is speaking to someone who "came to Jesus at night" probably wanting to avoid being seen with Jesus.
 
Good thing they were Baptists and not Roman Catholic, else they'd be atheists parading around as clergy.
 
What do you mean?
How can an atheist be a pastor/priest?
 
Lion IRC said:
What do you mean?
How can an atheist be a pastor/priest?
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Dan Barker was once a conservative Christian preacher who became an atheist while he was still preaching. He did eventually leave the church and has been an atheist activist for many years. I heard him give a lecture once in Atlanta many years ago.

I agree with you that these assaults should have been immediately reported to the police, once an adult found out. The problem is that religious authorities usually don't do that, probably out of fear of the negative attention it will bring to their churches. These Southern Baptists didn't even tell other SB churches to be cautious concerning particular pastors and volunteers. Instead they ignored or covered up these crimes. What does that say about them?

But, please don't expect children to report these things to the police. Children are often too fearful to tell anyone that they've been assaulted, and many times the adults don't even believe the children when they do report what happened.
 
Lion IRC said:
What do you mean?
How can an atheist be a pastor/priest?
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I was simply alluding to your claims in other threads that the same RCC problem was caused by clergy that were atheist.

To sohy's point, what allows this behavior to continue has to do with the fact that the society generally wishes to preserve the reputation of the institution at the expense of the individual. Southern Baptist culture goes beyond the doors of their churches, just like RCC culture does in the north. Those communities are affected by religious behavior in their police forces, fire departments, etc. It's about power and prestige, not taking care of children. That's what makes religious behavior so insidious. It isn't like enough people don't know this is happening, it's that they value their religion above the welfare of children. You can't go much lower than that when it comes to scumbaggery.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
To sohy's point, what allows this behavior to continue has to do with the fact that the society generally wishes to preserve the reputation of the institution at the expense of the individual. Southern Baptist culture goes beyond the doors of their churches, just like RCC culture does in the north. Those communities are affected by religious behavior in their police forces, fire departments, etc. It's about power and prestige, not taking care of children.
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This is an important point. Many times, the Police are also in the thrall of the religion, indeed are Pastors and Ministers themselves with a vested interest in the reputation of the church.

T.G.G. Moogly said:
That's what makes religious behavior so insidious. It isn't like enough people don't know this is happening, it's that they value their religion above the welfare of children. You can't go much lower than that when it comes to scumbaggery.
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Yes, this.
Like the Roman Catholic poster who says, "why blame the bishops when it's the children who weren't active enough in their own defense?"
 
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