Should Obama-Hillary Dems also be investigated? prosecuted?

[Lumpenproletariat]

e.g., for illegally "spying" on Trump, etc.?


There are two narratives of the political scandals happening: The Red Narrative and the Blue Narrative. Neither one can be shown to be the objective scientific truth. Rather, each narrative respectively, i.e., of the two Gangs running the country, has its own version of the truth, or of the facts of what's happening. And the news media has no narrative separate from either of these two. At best, the media just report the battles going on between the two Gangs, or warring factions, telling us which side won a new battle, or which narrative scored more points on a given day.

So neither the investigations per se nor the media can tell us what the objective truth is, apart from the Blue or Red Narrative, but can only present to us the daily battles going on between the two Gangs running the country, and so far the Democrats have maintained the offensive, probably scoring more points because of the many House investigations they control. But the Trumpsters are now demanding investigations into the Obama-Clinton scandals, and Bill Barr seems about to start something, like investigating possible criminal behavior by those who originated the Trump investigations.


And why should ANY investigations be ruled out?

If there is suspicion of criminal conduct by either Gang, why should it not be investigated? But also, why must we rely on only the Red and Blue Partisans to investigate, or to determine "the truth" for us? Every House investigation will inevitably conclude that the Reds have committed crimes and that no Blues are guilty of anything. And every Trump-appointed official will find that only Blues have committed any crimes and that no Reds are guilty of anything.

The outcomes of such investigations are fixed in advance, because of the inherent Partisan impetus driving each of the two warring camps. So, as soon as an investigation is launched, the outcome of it is already predetermined, with no need to go through the mechanics or routine of the fact-finding. Any investigation will inevitably find the "facts" it needs in order to arrive at the Partisan results intended by the respective Red or Blue Gang which launched whatever investigation.

Can't there be any truth-finding entity other than these two Gangs which run the country? each confined to its own world of predetermined Blue or Red facts to present based on its respective narrative? Is there no other form of fact-finding than one dominated by the Red or Blue Gang?


Why not GRAND JURIES which are not partisan-based? Why couldn't there be grand-jury investigation of both the Trump/Red crimes and the Obama-Hillary/Blue crimes? There is probably some guilt on both sides which would be exposed by a neutral entity not committed to either of the two Gangs.

If Grand Juries were mobilized to investigate all criminal accusations against those in power, on either side, then maybe the Congress could turn its attention to legislation rather than these investigations of which the outcomes are already predetermined. This would mean Grand Jury investigation of the previous Administration, rather than by Bill Barr, since we know in advance that a Red-appointed Attorney General must inevitably produce the predetermined outcome required by the Red crusaders (i.e., Sean Hannity, Jay Sekulow, etc.) who are charging the Obama-Hillary Cabal with several crimes.

What we need are fact-finding investigations done by someone separate from the two warring factions -- i.e., not inherently committed in advance to produce the outcome dictated by the Red or Blue Gang controlling the investigation. Who would this someone be, other than Grand Juries? And, since there are easily dozens of suspected perpetrators on either side -- from the Red and Blue Gangs -- this might require several Grand Juries, even hundreds of citizens serving on them, to perform the work needed to investigate all the allegations made against each side by the other.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

If Hillary will finally go away from the limelight, I say let her. Let her fizzle away into obscurity. The last thing we need is more Hillary controversy.

 

[ZiprHead]

Your basic premise right from the start is wrong so I'll not bother responding to your always too wordy blather.

Bonespurs campaign was not "spied" on "illegally". A member of his campaign had many contacts with Russian agents, some of whom had already been convicted of espionage activities. This person was monitored with the approval of the courts.

 

[Lumpenproletariat]

Why should we believe you if you're obviously a Whole-Hearted DEVOTEE of either the Blue Gang or the Red Gang?

Your basic premise right from the start is wrong so I'll not bother responding to your always too wordy blather.

Your Gang, the Blue Gang, agrees with the Red Gang on this point. But you disagree on which Gang, the Red or Blue, is the source of truth.

Your Gang says it's only the Reds who commit any crimes and that Blues are always innocent of anything.

Bonespurs campaign was not "spied" on "illegally". A member of his campaign had many contacts with Russian agents, some of whom had already been convicted of espionage activities. This person was monitored with the approval of the courts.

That's the Blue Narrative version of the truth.

Why can't there be someone who investigates this and reports the facts to us who is not either a Blue Crusader or a Red Crusader?

I don't think this "spying" charge is about ONLY ONE member of Trump's campaign. And some court rulings are overturned by others, or were a result of false evidence. When courts rule on such things they often are given totally one-sided evidence.

Plus, there are many other charges against the Obama-Clinton Cabal than just the "spying" one.

No one has proved that the charges against the Trump gang are more legitimate than those against the Obama-Hillary gang. Only a neutral entity can be trusted to judge it.

It's inevitable that Crusaders on both sides will say that the accusations from the other side are phony and that only the other side is guilty of anything.

I'm sure Jay Sekulow would run circles around you in a debate about who is guilty. There's every reason to believe that both sides have committed some of the crimes alleged.

 

[ZiprHead]

I charge that you are an asshole with teeth. This should be investigated.

 

[Ford]

So, how's that "lock her up" thing coming along?

 

[RVonse]

As stated in the OP, the press is NOT doing its job. It should be the job of the press to:

1. Become an impartial observer of the facts.
2. Be equally hated and/or liked by both sides.
3. Bring all the news to the people.

Right now the so called mainstream media is just a mouthpiece for the Democrat party. And the political junkies like Limbaugh and Hannity....well we know what they are. The only thing the press knows how to do is make money. There is no value added to society with today's so called press.

So the solution is to fix the press. Once the press is fixed, then politicians cant get away with so much anymore. But Im not sure how that should be done. Perhaps breaking them up under the anti sherman act?

The OP mentions investigations and grand jury's...but who is going to pay for all of that?

 

[ZiprHead]

As stated in the OP, the press is NOT doing its job. It should be the job of the press to:

1. Become an impartial observer of the facts.
2. Be equally hated and/or liked by both sides.
3. Bring all the news to the people.

Right now the so called mainstream media is just a mouthpiece for the Democrat party. And the political junkies like Limbaugh and Hannity....well we know what they are. The only thing the press knows how to do is make money. There is no value added to society with today's so called press.

So the solution is to fix the press. Once the press is fixed, then politicians cant get away with so much anymore. But Im not sure how that should be done. Perhaps breaking them up under the anti sherman act?

The OP mentions investigations and grand jury's...but who is going to pay for all of that?

This was covered by the press. That's how I came to know what I said in my very first post in this thread.

 

[RVonse]

As to the question mentioned in the thread title. Yes Hillary and the previous administration should be investigated too.

If what they are accused of is true, it is actually worse than what the Trump team was investigated for.

 

[Ford]

Yeah, maybe they should investigate just what happened in Benghazi. Nobody ever investigated Hillary for that. She didn't respond to any subpoena, or testify in front of Congress, or cooperate in any way. So much worse than the transparent and open Trump administration!

 

[ZiprHead]

As to the question mentioned in the thread title. Yes Hillary and the previous administration should be investigated too.

If what they are accused of is true, it is actually worse than what the Trump team was investigated for.

What are they accused of?

 

[RVonse]

As stated in the OP, the press is NOT doing its job. It should be the job of the press to:

1. Become an impartial observer of the facts.
2. Be equally hated and/or liked by both sides.
3. Bring all the news to the people.

Right now the so called mainstream media is just a mouthpiece for the Democrat party. And the political junkies like Limbaugh and Hannity....well we know what they are. The only thing the press knows how to do is make money. There is no value added to society with today's so called press.

So the solution is to fix the press. Once the press is fixed, then politicians cant get away with so much anymore. But Im not sure how that should be done. Perhaps breaking them up under the anti sherman act?

The OP mentions investigations and grand jury's...but who is going to pay for all of that?

This was covered by the press. That's how I came to know what I said in my very first post in this thread.

You mean its how you became mis-informed.

Lumpenproletariat and I dont often agree with each other. But this time he is correct.

 

[ZiprHead]

As stated in the OP, the press is NOT doing its job. It should be the job of the press to:

1. Become an impartial observer of the facts.
2. Be equally hated and/or liked by both sides.
3. Bring all the news to the people.

Right now the so called mainstream media is just a mouthpiece for the Democrat party. And the political junkies like Limbaugh and Hannity....well we know what they are. The only thing the press knows how to do is make money. There is no value added to society with today's so called press.

So the solution is to fix the press. Once the press is fixed, then politicians cant get away with so much anymore. But Im not sure how that should be done. Perhaps breaking them up under the anti sherman act?

The OP mentions investigations and grand jury's...but who is going to pay for all of that?

This was covered by the press. That's how I came to know what I said in my very first post in this thread.

You mean its how you became mis-informed.

Lumpenproletariat and I dont often agree with each other. But this time he is correct.

You are quite welcome to inform me "correctly" if you can. Or you can continue the mutual ass-kissing between you and Lumpy.

 

[RVonse]

As to the question mentioned in the thread title. Yes Hillary and the previous administration should be investigated too.

If what they are accused of is true, it is actually worse than what the Trump team was investigated for.

What are they accused of?

If you believe what comes from the Hannity/Limbaugh crowd its very bad. Political actors from both the FBI and CIA under direction of the Obama regime attempted to subvert a legitimate election of POTUS. So instead of Russia interference it was interference from within. Besides the fact that that kind of interference is more believable than Russia it is also a much worse problem to fix rot in our government that is from within.

 

[RVonse]

You mean its how you became mis-informed.

Lumpenproletariat and I dont often agree with each other. But this time he is correct.

You are quite welcome to inform me "correctly" if you can. Or you can continue the mutual ass-kissing between you and Lumpy.

Thats just the problem. Neither Lumpy, you, or myself really knows the truth. We can guess what the truth might be by taking a middle position between what left wing news and right wing news reports.

But without reliable press, its just a guess.

 

[Ford]

As to the question mentioned in the thread title. Yes Hillary and the previous administration should be investigated too.

If what they are accused of is true, it is actually worse than what the Trump team was investigated for.

What are they accused of?

If you believe what comes from the Hannity/Limbaugh crowd its very bad. Political actors from both the FBI and CIA under direction of the Obama regime attempted to subvert a legitimate election of POTUS. So instead of Russia interference it was interference from within. Besides the fact that that kind of interference is more believable than Russia it is also a much worse problem to fix rot in our government that is from within.

And who wouldn't believe those guys? Limbaugh is not part of the mainstream media, and is just a plucky outsider working for a small, upstart company. Hannity? He works for Fox News, which is also totally not a mainstream outlet run by a giant media corporation! Plus they're fair and balanced!

So if they said that the CIA and FBI under Obama were nefarious, then you'd better believe it's true. That's much more credible than the Mueller Report, which absolutely didn't conclude that the Russians tried to interfere in our election. That whole narrative is just fake news. No collusion! No obstruction! Lock her up!

 

[ZiprHead]

As to the question mentioned in the thread title. Yes Hillary and the previous administration should be investigated too.

If what they are accused of is true, it is actually worse than what the Trump team was investigated for.

What are they accused of?

If you believe what comes from the Hannity/Limbaugh crowd its very bad. Political actors from both the FBI and CIA under direction of the Obama regime attempted to subvert a legitimate election of POTUS. So instead of Russia interference it was interference from within. Besides the fact that that kind of interference is more believable than Russia it is also a much worse problem to fix rot in our government that is from within.

What is the proof evidence of this. Remember that an investigation requires probable cause to start.

 

[RVonse]

And who wouldn't believe those guys?

They like to talk about Comey and Clapper a lot. And one of the questions pretty hard to ignore (no matter what side you are) is the lying Clapper did under oath and the leaking Comey has publically admitted to.

Whatever your ideology or political beliefs those are crimes that deserve some jail time. But I guess the FBI and CIA have immunity just like the banksters did.

 

[ZiprHead]

And who wouldn't believe those guys?

They like to talk about Comey and Clapper a lot. And one of the questions pretty hard to ignore (no matter what side you are) is the lying Clapper did under oath and the leaking Comey has publically admitted to.

Whatever your ideology or political beliefs those are crimes that deserve some jail time. But I guess the FBI and CIA have immunity just like the banksters did.

The statute of limitations has run out on Clapper and has nothing to do with the Trump campaign.

I am unaware of leaks by Comey, unless you mean his letter to congress telling them that the investigation into Clinton was being re-opened. That letter was then leaked to the press by a Republican congressperson.

 

[RVonse]

And who wouldn't believe those guys?

They like to talk about Comey and Clapper a lot. And one of the questions pretty hard to ignore (no matter what side you are) is the lying Clapper did under oath and the leaking Comey has publically admitted to.

Whatever your ideology or political beliefs those are crimes that deserve some jail time. But I guess the FBI and CIA have immunity just like the banksters did.

The statute of limitations has run out on Clapper and has nothing to do with the Trump campaign.

I am unaware of leaks by Comey, unless you mean his letter to congress telling them that the investigation into Clinton was being re-opened. That letter was then leaked to the press by a Republican congressperson.

Right after Trump fired Comey he asked a friend to share one of his memo's to the Washington Post.