Is Human Nature Determined by Our Material Conditions?

[Bomb#20]

If X is our human nature, then it would be only there because of the environment that gave birth to us. Seems like we are islands that oceans make, change or destroy.

Which effectively eliminates the idea of free will?

Wally: Is human motivation the result of genetics or environment?

Pointy-Haired Boss. Both. Duh. But I called you in here so we could discuss your poor job performance.

Wally: We just did. You said it wasn't my fault.

 

[DBT]

If X is our human nature, then it would be only there because of the environment that gave birth to us. Seems like we are islands that oceans make, change or destroy.

Which effectively eliminates the idea of free will?

Wally: Is human motivation the result of genetics or environment?

Pointy-Haired Boss. Both. Duh. But I called you in here so we could discuss your poor job performance.

Wally: We just did. You said it wasn't my fault.

The ability to make decisions, skills, abilities, adaption, drive, will, are not necessarily examples of 'free will'

Wallly's problems are more complex than his flippant manner suggests.

 

[ryan]

If X is our human nature, then it would be only there because of the environment that gave birth to us. Seems like we are islands that oceans make, change or destroy.

Which effectively eliminates the idea of free will?

The ocean/universe would create free will and affect it and even end it.

And any outcome from free will could also defy any set of human natures.

 

[DBT]

If X is our human nature, then it would be only there because of the environment that gave birth to us. Seems like we are islands that oceans make, change or destroy.

Which effectively eliminates the idea of free will?

The ocean/universe would create free will and affect it and even end it.

And any outcome from free will could also defy any set of human natures.

How is that possible? It needs to be described with a given definition of free will.

 

[ryan]

The ocean/universe would create free will and affect it and even end it.

And any outcome from free will could also defy any set of human natures.

How is that possible? It needs to be described with a given definition of free will.

What are you asking for, a definition for free will?

 

[DBT]

The ocean/universe would create free will and affect it and even end it.

And any outcome from free will could also defy any set of human natures.

How is that possible? It needs to be described with a given definition of free will.

What are you asking for, a definition for free will?

Both. Two parts. A description of how the "ocean/universe creates free will" with a given definition of free will.

 

[ryan]

What are you asking for, a definition for free will?

Both. Two parts. A description of how the "ocean/universe creates free will" with a given definition of free will.

I don't know how free will is created although there are theories that we talked about before. And the definition is what it always is in our conversations: the ability to have done otherwise with everything else staying the same.

 

[fromderinside]

The problem there is one didn't do otherwise just hypothesized one could do so. Methinks free will is doing otherwise. That leaves it up to the reader to discover what wasn't otherwise.

 

[DBT]

What are you asking for, a definition for free will?

Both. Two parts. A description of how the "ocean/universe creates free will" with a given definition of free will.

I don't know how free will is created although there are theories that we talked about before. And the definition is what it always is in our conversations: the ability to have done otherwise with everything else staying the same.

Yet it is common to regret a decision we made only a moment after having made it, a decision that may have serious consequences.

So if we could have done otherwise in the moment of decision making, why did we not take that option and avoided unwanted problems that could have been avoided had we exercised this form of 'free will?'

 

[DBT]

In other words, how can the universe with its progression of events allow some of its parts to have done otherwise in any given instance in time?

 

[ryan]

The problem there is one didn't do otherwise just hypothesized one could do so. Methinks free will is doing otherwise. That leaves it up to the reader to discover what wasn't otherwise.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

 

[ryan]

In other words, how can the universe with its progression of events allow some of its parts to have done otherwise in any given instance in time?

That's QM. Nobody knows why the universe has QM rather than no QM.

 

[DBT]

In other words, how can the universe with its progression of events allow some of its parts to have done otherwise in any given instance in time?

That's QM. Nobody knows why the universe has QM rather than no QM.

How does QM help you in relation to the decision making process?

 

[SLD]

In other words, how can the universe with its progression of events allow some of its parts to have done otherwise in any given instance in time?

That's QM. Nobody knows why the universe has QM rather than no QM.

How does QM help you in relation to the decision making process?

QM, or more appropriate, QED governs the electrical impulses in your brain, and the ways photons react to the nerves in your eyes. The wave function collapses one way and you pick the chicken, it collapses another, and you pick steak. Maybe.

 

[fromderinside]

maybe not ...

 

[DBT]

How does QM help you in relation to the decision making process?

QM, or more appropriate, QED governs the electrical impulses in your brain, and the ways photons react to the nerves in your eyes. The wave function collapses one way and you pick the chicken, it collapses another, and you pick steak. Maybe.

Random probability and an absence of will when one option is taken over another being an example of freedom of will?

 

[ryan]

In other words, how can the universe with its progression of events allow some of its parts to have done otherwise in any given instance in time?

That's QM. Nobody knows why the universe has QM rather than no QM.

How does QM help you in relation to the decision making process?

Do remember the Posner molecules from Fisher's paper? If true they would make our brains quantum processors.

 

[DBT]

How does QM help you in relation to the decision making process?

Do remember the Posner molecules from Fisher's paper? If true they would make our brains quantum processors.

Even if that was true, how does it help the case for free will? Does a quantum information processor necessarily have free will?

 

[bilby]

How does QM help you in relation to the decision making process?

Do remember the Posner molecules from Fisher's paper? If true they would make our brains quantum processors.

Even if that was true, how does it help the case for free will? Does a quantum information processor necessarily have free will?

You are wasting your time. Ryan will always argue for the existence of free will. He couldn't do otherwise.

 

[DBT]

Even if that was true, how does it help the case for free will? Does a quantum information processor necessarily have free will?

You are wasting your time. Ryan will always argue for the existence of free will. He couldn't do otherwise.

True, but he (or someone else) may have been working on a new argument or angle during the break between free will debates that could be interesting, you never know.