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The education system

Jason Harvestdancer

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I've been thinking about education quite a bit lately, and I think "Social Science" is the closest we have to a forum where this topic is appropriate.

Of the many aspects of education I've been contemplating, I'll bring one of them here. The art requirement. It is common to both High School and College. It generally includes many different options, such as drawing, sculpting, singing, acting, and if the school is big enough, dance.

What is the purpose of the art requirement? Is it to appreciate art, or to practice doing art? Is an art appreciation class what is wanted, or to try to get people to practice making art?
 
If you aren't impressed with our spiritual artifacts and our representations of living form then certainly you wouldn't expect art to be taught in many forms corresponding with writing, typing, physical training, mathematics, etc. Art is a normal human behavior of expression just like fluting, drumming walking, eating, and the other stuff I mentioned above. Education is a historically based discipline. Art is something we use many aspects of our capabilities to accomplish consequently it makes sense to comprehensively address it against those capabilities,

IOW Duh.*

*sorry about that.
 
I wasn't required to take Art in High School or College.

[FONT=&quot]“By participating in the arts, our students develop cognitive abilities and forms of intelligence that complement training in other disciplines, and in some cases they discover talents and interests that will shape their careers and principal avocations.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]– Shirley M. Tilghman (Princeton University President, 2001 – 2013)
[/FONT]
 
Where is art a requirement? Usually the requirement is to take one or more "elective" courses (of which art classes may be a part), but I've never heard of there being a specific "art" requirement. The only required course I can think of that might apply is English Literature, but that's more about expanding a student's mind in ways that otherwise would require them to physically travel and experience the things others have written about (as well as improving their reading and interpretation skills, which are practical measures that in turn prepare graduates for necessary real-world applications of those skills).

That said, I believe "art" should absolutely be a requirement, as there is no better way to stimulate intelligence and encourage self-exploration/self-reflection/self-expression, which are all likewise necessary ingredients for developing young minds and productive citizens.

Without stimulating a child's creativity, you have no innovation, no disruption, nothing that currently drives our economy. Practical skills are completely useless if all you are producing are automatons that can't think outside of their own boxes. Art is the best (and only) way to encourage that kind of unfettered thinking.
 
I've been thinking about education quite a bit lately, and I think "Social Science" is the closest we have to a forum where this topic is appropriate.

Of the many aspects of education I've been contemplating, I'll bring one of them here. The art requirement. It is common to both High School and College. It generally includes many different options, such as drawing, sculpting, singing, acting, and if the school is big enough, dance.

What is the purpose of the art requirement? Is it to appreciate art, or to practice doing art? Is an art appreciation class what is wanted, or to try to get people to practice making art?
Art programs are not instituted in a universal way, but if they are part of a general program of liberal arts, the idea is that they are skills worth cultivating for their own sake in each individual, as part of a healthy balance of skills and knowledge in many areas and modalities. The purpose is more practical than theoretical, and the emphasis is more likely on performance than appreciation.

In English-speaking countries, we often point to a brief pamphlet by Francis Bacon called "Of Studies" (1625), as an apt summary and intellectual precursor for the ideas behind a program of liberal arts; I reproduce it in full below:

"STUDIES serve for delight, for ornament, and for ability. Their chief use for delight, is in privateness and retiring; for ornament, is in discourse; and for ability, is in the judgment, and disposition of business. For expert men can execute, and perhaps judge of particulars, one by one; but the general counsels, and the plots and marshalling of affairs, come best, from those that are learned. To spend too much time in studies is sloth; to use them too much for ornament, is affectation; to make judgment wholly by their rules, is the humor of a scholar.

They perfect nature, and are perfected by experience: for natural abilities are like natural plants, that need proyning, by study; and studies themselves, do give forth directions too much at large, except they be bounded in by experience. Crafty men contemn studies, simple men admire them, and wise men use them; for they teach not their own use; but that is a wisdom without them, and above them, won by observation. Read not to contradict and confute; nor to believe and take for granted; nor to find talk and discourse; but to weigh and consider. Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested; that is, some books are to be read only in parts; others to be read, but not curiously; and some few to be read wholly, and with diligence and attention. Some books also may be read by deputy, and extracts made of them by others; but that would be only in the less important arguments, and the meaner sort of books, else distilled books are like common distilled waters, flashy things.

Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man. And therefore, if a man write little, he had need have a great memory; if he confer little, he had need have a present wit: and if he read little, he had need have much cunning, to seem to know, that he doth not. Histories make men wise; poets witty; the mathematics subtile; natural philosophy deep; moral grave; logic and rhetoric able to contend. Abeunt studia in mores.

Nay, there is no stond or impediment in the wit, but may be wrought out by fit studies; like as diseases of the body, may have appropriate exercises. Bowling is good for the stone and reins; shooting for the lungs and breast; gentle walking for the stomach; riding for the head; and the like. So if a man’s wit be wandering, let him study the mathematics; for in demonstrations, if his wit be called away never so little, he must begin again. If his wit be not apt to distinguish or find differences, let him study the Schoolmen; for they are cymini sectores. If he be not apt to beat over matters, and to call up one thing to prove and illustrate another, let him study the lawyers’ cases. So every defect of the mind, may have a special receipt."
 
My college and my high school both had an art requirement. There was a list of classes one could choose from. Not all schools have it, yes. It isn't exactly the same thing as an elective.

For instance, suppose your college required you to take one art class, and you took three because you enjoyed the first one. The other two are clearly just electives. Most schools require it as more of a production based requirement, not an appreciation based requirement - art as opposed to art history. I'm just trying to get a feel for what is best here.

I have been pondering my own education for many years now, and while some of it made sense why I had to take a particular course, others didn't make as much sense. This is only one of the issues I've been pondering. I agree the arts are valuable, I'm just contemplating the distinction between production and appreciation. So far it seems that production is the preferred course.
 
Seems to me one of the basic functions of primary (k-12) education is to produce a person who can determine relative value of choices such as where to and for what reasons to go to particular college. If one gets lost in the competition aspect of choosing a best university without skill of proper selection one should continue to learn at the most reasonable rates possible.

It's tough. I know. I chose the best university in my sate and the most difficult discipline when I had not nearly enough tools to succeed. Flunked out, went to jr college having lost motivation wound up in the Navy, then IBM, then college again at a state school then won a fellowship to a leading university in my chosen discipline.

However I didn't get into the workforce in that line of work until I was 36, way too late for ame fortune or even high income. Still even this 'disaster' route provided a very satisfying 25 years of productive and rewarding endeavor.

Looking back I see how I should have prepared and decided differently. Just saying avoiding 15 or more 'wasted' years is probably worth re-examining how one goes through early training.

It turns out that art would probably have been useful for me and that sciences would have been useful to my brother who came to art at an early age.

Then again it just could be we weren't going to succeed because we weren't ready when choice times came for other reasons than lack of foundation.
 
I have been pondering my own education for many years now, and while some of it made sense why I had to take a particular course, others didn't make as much sense.

I heard people in my schools say the same thing. "Why do I have to take all these math and science courses??"
 
I agree the arts are valuable, I'm just contemplating the distinction between production and appreciation. So far it seems that production is the preferred course.

I see value in both, although I am imagining "appreciation" as being more about gaining knowledge about human beings and even social issues, events, and culture via a focus on art. After all, art has been a major part of human society since we were "human" if not before. I think such a course should be part of the history/social-studies curriculum.

I do think I had an art requirement in middle school, but not High School or College.
 
My college and my high school both had an art requirement. There was a list of classes one could choose from. Not all schools have it, yes. It isn't exactly the same thing as an elective.

For instance, suppose your college required you to take one art class, and you took three because you enjoyed the first one. The other two are clearly just electives. Most schools require it as more of a production based requirement, not an appreciation based requirement - art as opposed to art history. I'm just trying to get a feel for what is best here.

I have been pondering my own education for many years now, and while some of it made sense why I had to take a particular course, others didn't make as much sense. This is only one of the issues I've been pondering. I agree the arts are valuable, I'm just contemplating the distinction between production and appreciation. So far it seems that production is the preferred course.

No art requirements for either high school or college for me.

I did have some out-of-field requirements, though, and I have a bit of a disagreement on how you are defining them. There was no specific class that was required, but rather x credit hours from y department. They could be any classes you met the requirements for. You can't define one as a requirement and another as an elective even if you took more than was required.
 
I think there should definitely be a vocational skills-based requirement as well as a financial responsibility requirement as well as an art requirement. Kids are sponges and every study ever conducted proves again and again and again that you can cram their heads full of almost anything--second languages in particular--during their formative years, so adding those in around middle school onward at least (art and languages much much earlier) would be a good idea.

If, you know, we actually want to produce well-rounded and productive members of society and not just volunteer-army fodder like we do now.
 
Back in the day voc and financial skills were exclusively applied to those on non-college or technical skill tracks along with geography as a replacement for american and world history three years of science and maths beyond fractions.

We’ve gotten progressively stupider as a nation since then, thanks primarily to Ronald Reagan and, ironically, the removal of the draft. When the world needs ditch diggers (and canon fodder), yank federal funding to public education and dumb those fuckers down.
 
I don't agree. Reagan yes for killing mental health care, but, no for harming education. Education lowering is consequence of bringing in people who have no tradition for educating children by the state or church and as a response for including inner city kids in education increasing class size beyond practical limits.. Farm boys and girls were always more interested in the family than in education explains the small town drops in education.

Education can work in large society, it can even work in multiethnic society, but doing so is demonstrably difficult and expensive requiring almost total buy in by national community.

Aside. Sold Great Books back in the early sixties. Several fathers told me their kids didn't need any more education than they had attained, less than five years. So I'm sure it wasn't Reagan, much more likely related to Board of Education SC ruling in '54.
 
I don't agree. Reagan yes for killing mental health care, but, no for harming education.

A Brief History of GOP Attempts to Kill the Education Dept.

Education can work in large society, it can even work in multiethnic society, but doing so is demonstrably difficult and expensive requiring almost total buy in by national community.

Exactly. And Reagan--nearly single-handedly--destroyed that "buy in by national community."

So I'm sure it wasn't Reagan, much more likely related to Board of Education SC ruling in '54.

You mean Brown v. Board? How so?

Reagan not only had control of the purse strings, he had the bully pulpit:

From the moment the Department of Education was born, critics — Republicans, almost exclusively — have sought to dismantle it.

The department, created under Jimmy Carter, began operating in May 1980. Ronald Reagan, then campaigning against Carter for the presidency, marked the occasion in blistering fashion. “At 11:01 a.m. Eastern Standard Time on Sunday,” he said, “President Jimmy Carter’s new bureaucratic boondoggle was born: the Department of Education.”

Reagan went on to lay out what has become one of the Republicans’ primary arguments against the agency: “Welfare and education are two functions that should be primarily carried out at the state and local levels.”

As president, Reagan said, he would seek to dismantle the department. His first education secretary, Terrel H. Bell, arrived with a mandate to do just that, and initially proposed recasting the agency as a foundation, according to Education Week. But Bell grew convinced of the department’s value. During his second term, Reagan replaced Bell with William J. Bennett, who had no such qualms about calling for the agency’s elimination.

Reagan and Bennett never got their wish. But the president succeeded in clipping the department’s wings. From 1981, when the Reagan-backed Education Consolidation and Improvement Act curtailed the department’s reach, to 1988, the agency’s budget declined by 11 percent in real dollars, according to “Making Democracy Work,” a history of federal reorganization published by the University of Virginia’s Miller Center of Public Affairs. The department’s regulatory authority was limited as well.

It is precisely because of this mentality--states and local over national--that we have such problems today, which was ironically underscored by Reagan in an arbeit macht frei bit of duplicitous theatrics:

Thirty-five years ago, in April of 1983, Ronald Reagan appeared before the press to publicize a government report warning of “a rising tide of mediocrity” that had begun to erode America’s education system. Were such conditions imposed by an unfriendly foreign power, the authors declared, “we might well have viewed it as an act of war.”

Despite its grave tone, the report, titled “A Nation at Risk,” had little direct impact on policy. It did, however, establish a new way of talking about public education in the United States, a master narrative that has endured—and even subtly changed American education policy for the worse—over the past several decades.

Across that stretch of time, politicians and policy makers have spoken often of the inadequacy of “America’s schools.” In fact, this trope is one of the few things that Betsy DeVos, Donald Trump’s regulation-averse secretary of education, has in common with her predecessors; she and previous education secretaries have regularly discussed the nation’s schools as a cohesive whole. This phrasing is useful shorthand for a national official, but it obscures the fact that the United States does not actually have a national education system. Many countries do. In France, for example, a centralized ministry of education governs schools directly. But in the U.S., all 50 states maintain authority over public education. And across those 50 states, roughly 13,000 districts shape much, possibly even most, of what happens in local schools.

The abstraction of “America’s schools” may be convenient for rousing the collective conscience, but it is not particularly useful for the purpose of understanding (or improving) American education. Consider the issue of funding. On average, federal money accounts for less than 10 percent of education budgets across the country, and the rest of the financial responsibility falls to states and local schools. If local schools are unable to raise what they need, the state is usually well positioned to make up the difference, but states differ dramatically in their approaches. On average, states spend roughly $13,000 per student on public education—but looking at the average alone is misleading. Only about half of states spend anything close to that figure: A dozen spend 25 percent more than the national average, and 10 states spend 25 percent less. The result is significant disparities, and some striking incongruities. New York’s schools, for instance, spend roughly three times as much per student as Utah’s schools—a huge difference, even after accounting for New York’s higher cost of living.
...
Though states often take similar approaches on curricula and teacher licensure, they tend to differ considerably in policy and practice. Things like early-childhood education, charter-school regulation, sex education, arts programs, teacher pay, and teacher evaluation are anything but uniform across the 50 states. To say that America’s schools are failing students on any of these issues would be a gross generalization—it would obscure all the national variety, like the fact that in Massachusetts, charter schools are tightly regulated, while in Arizona, they’re hardly regulated at all.
...
Public schools in the United States differ so much from state to state and from district to district that it hardly makes sense to talk about “America’s schools.” In fact, a focus on large-scale national reform can actually do harm, insofar as it must emphasize generic one-size-fits-all solutions that ignore state- and local-level needs. The nationwide push to evaluate teachers using student standardized test scores is a classic example. Strongly backed by former Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, so-called “value added” models of assessing teachers were adopted across the nation despite the concerns of education scholars. Worse, the models have undermined trust in the process of teacher evaluation and driven some successful educators out of the profession.

This is not to say that taking the national perspective can’t be valuable. Troubling patterns do exist across the U.S., and discussions about them can play an important role in shaping both public understanding and education policy. Achievement gaps across race and class, for instance, are an important reminder of broader social and economic inequalities, and advocates have used evidence about those patterns to make the case for universal early-childhood education. Similarly, a national dialogue about the disproportionate punishment of black and brown children in schools has drawn attention to an issue that might otherwise have gone unnoticed. These kinds of broad conversations can generate both political will and policy responses.

But more-abstract national-reform rhetoric has little to redeem it. In a system that affords significant authority to schools, districts, and states, it is ill suited for identifying the actual strengths and weaknesses of schools. And when used to drive policy, such rhetoric can generate support for policies that are at best distracting and at worst detrimental. One major example of this is No Child Left Behind (NCLB), the piece of Bush-era legislation that pushed schools to improve students’ standardized test scores each year. But because the federal government has limited power over schools, it offered little other than punishments, such as staff reassignments or school closures, to induce those gains. States and school districts focused their energies on avoiding such punishments, often ignoring critical issues like school culture and student engagement.
 
Art is not required in FL beyond elementary school. Even then, it's only once a week for an hour.
I've been thinking about education quite a bit lately, and I think "Social Science" is the closest we have to a forum where this topic is appropriate.

Of the many aspects of education I've been contemplating, I'll bring one of them here. The art requirement. It is common to both High School and College. It generally includes many different options, such as drawing, sculpting, singing, acting, and if the school is big enough, dance.

What is the purpose of the art requirement? Is it to appreciate art, or to practice doing art? Is an art appreciation class what is wanted, or to try to get people to practice making art?
 
MOST school districts have cut art and music. And for the record, those that take/study music do statically better in math. Just sayin'
My college and my high school both had an art requirement. There was a list of classes one could choose from. Not all schools have it, yes. It isn't exactly the same thing as an elective.

For instance, suppose your college required you to take one art class, and you took three because you enjoyed the first one. The other two are clearly just electives. Most schools require it as more of a production based requirement, not an appreciation based requirement - art as opposed to art history. I'm just trying to get a feel for what is best here.

I have been pondering my own education for many years now, and while some of it made sense why I had to take a particular course, others didn't make as much sense. This is only one of the issues I've been pondering. I agree the arts are valuable, I'm just contemplating the distinction between production and appreciation. So far it seems that production is the preferred course.
 
Take the Reagan talk to Politics, I'm trying to discuss education as a social science and philosophy.

What do you think politics is but a subset of "social science"? And it was the philosophy of Reagan (and the right) that is at issue. They believe the world needs ditchdiggers--while at the same time understanding that education needs to be a protected privilege not a general right-- so the way to do that is to destroy it through fragmentation and disunity.

Iow, they are deliberately creating and maintaining a purposefully ignorant sub-class of worker drones, essentially, but what they did not envision, of course, was the power of a nascient technology and how it would open the world--finally--to a truly global awareness. So we have a shit load of ignorant, largely gullible citizens that have no skills and whose intelligence has barely if ever been stimulated, aka, "ditchdiggers" only with no ditches to dig.

And instead of correcting that generational mistake (as Bill Clinton attempted), now the philosophy has shifted to an even darker place due to the other neglect at the top; the priority of environmental sustainability.

We created a generation of ditchdiggers when we needed scientists and now the ditchdiggers will turn into gravediggers for the rich.
 
The idea that education can be discussed in a scientific/philosophical vacuum, insulated from politics, is laughable. I would go even further and suggest that it can't be insulated from economics. The education system is primarily a tool used by capital to prepare the majority of people for a life of basically endless work. It normalizes the relations that are most beneficial to that arrangement and marginalizes those that aren't. As far as art goes, this neatly explains OP's observation that art classes are primarily geared toward production and not appreciation. However, since art is not a growth industry, simultaneously we're seeing drastic cuts to creative programs across the board. The message is: if you want to go to school, you should spend most of your time becoming willing and able to work in the future, but if you must pursue an interest in art, please channel it appropriately into something that you will have to do for money.
 
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