Walmart and Gun Control

[southernhybrid]

Here's some food for thought.

Loaded guns are not permitted at gun shows. There are law enforcement agents at the door that check every gun to make sure it's not loaded.

Guns aren't permitted in most, possibly all government buildings. For example, when I go the local court house to pay my taxes, etc. I have to go through medal detector and if I'm carrying a purse, it's searched by law enforcement.

Guns aren't allowed at sporting events, afaik. The last time I went to a baseball game with family in New York, we had to empty our purses, bags etc. and go through a medal detector.

But, in some states, guns are permitted in bars, and pretty much anywhere else. Legal guns are always permitted on the streets in states that have open carry or concealed carry permits. And, why are gun laws so different in each state? Just sayin'.

I used to see quite a few people openly carry at Walmart. Yesterday, I saw none, but I did see this big man with a big knife tucked into his belt. What was that about? And why do some of these big badass looking men seem to think they need to open carry in the middle of the afternoon on a weekday? Do they seriously think they will stop a mass shooter with a semi automatic weapon? I think they will run and try to hide just like everybody else. Our gun culture has reached cray cray levels. Most gun owners agree that we've gone nuts over guns.

I think it's good that Walmart has stopped selling guns and ammo. I'd actually like to see more businesses take a stand, because as long as the chicken shit Republicans are controlling most branches of government, I seriously doubt a thing will change.

And, please. Nobody wants to take your guns. We just would like to have the type of regulations that we had in the past. For starters, lets' get back to the assault weapon ban that lasted from 1994-2004. Fuck. I don't even know how many fucking guns are in my house, thanks to the liberal gun collector husband. ( Yes. Liberals own guns ) But, I do know the damn things are really hard to sell because he's tried. That's why I know a lot about gun shows. Been there. Interesting, weird places. But, since the guns aren't loaded, at least you feel safe.

 

[Gun Nut]

How about just make a law that a guy must either leave his gun or his penis in the car when entering private businesses.

I never really got that penis / gun connection.

You don't need to. It is a simple option. gun or penis stays in the car.

lol, you were being literal.. that's hysterical. Rather sexist, though, to say women can't carry guns because they don't have a penis, don't ya think?

 

[Elixir]

It's interesting that Alaska is in the top five. Until recently this was the only state that Walmart still sold handguns.

What stuck me was that the number of murders per capita more than doubled in 7 years in many States. At that rate of increase, murder will not only be the leading cause of death, it will be the ONLY cause of death in 50 years!

What struck me was that New Hampshire had > 0.0 murders, yet a 0 per capita murder rate. That link has issues. First off, they list per capita numbers as percentages. Secondly, six states have a 0 per capita murder rate. The Alabama numbers seem quite off as well. US Murders aren't exploding.

Try this.

Actual numbers before rounding are given. I was being intentionally hyperbolic of course.
From human perspectives, nothing that merely doubles in frequency over 7 years is "exploding".
The calc is explained in the text above the chart:

Note that each data point reflects the number of people who were murdered in a given state per 100,000 people. As an example, Alabama’s murder rate in 2017 is a value of 12.9, but this is not an average number of people killed in the state annually. Instead, for every 100,000 residents of Alabama, there are nearly 13 deaths caused by homicide.
By taking the state’s population, dividing that value by 100,000 people, and then multiplying it by the murder rate, you can figure out a closer estimation of the annual murder rates per state. The murder rates by state in 2017 are in the table below.

Still, not a pretty picture if projected for several 7-year periods...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What struck me was that New Hampshire had > 0.0 murders, yet a 0 per capita murder rate. That link has issues. First off, they list per capita numbers as percentages. Secondly, six states have a 0 per capita murder rate. The Alabama numbers seem quite off as well. US Murders aren't exploding.

Try this.

Actual numbers before rounding are given. I was being intentionally hyperbolic of course.
From human perspectives, nothing that merely doubles in frequency over 7 years is "exploding".

A doubling of the murder rate would be extremely concerning. The data doesn't follow there.

Note that each data point reflects the number of people who were murdered in a given state per 100,000 people. As an example, Alabama’s murder rate in 2017 is a value of 12.9, but this is not an average number of people killed in the state annually. Instead, for every 100,000 residents of Alabama, there are nearly 13 deaths caused by homicide.
By taking the state’s population, dividing that value by 100,000 people, and then multiplying it by the murder rate, you can figure out a closer estimation of the annual murder rates per state. The murder rates by state in 2017 are in the table below.

Still, not a pretty picture if projected for several 7-year periods...

"By taking the state’s population, dividing that value by 100,000 people, and then multiplying it by the murder rate, you can figure out a closer estimation of the annual murder rates per state."

Wah?

If you do the math above, that gives you the number of people murdered per capita, not a rate. The website is wrong. Use the wiki link instead.

 

[Derec]

That was 2012. What do you think that number will be this year?

Probably not very different. Certainly not nearly approaching levels in Louisiana and DC.

Do you have more recent numbers?

 

[Derec]

Bigger. Here are some stark numbers by state for 2010 vs 2017

So Texas murder rate increased somewhat, but is still in the lower half of states, so my point still stands.

Louisiana jumped to 14. What the hell is happening there?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Are there companies that are willing to withdrawal from Texas because it's too violent. Probably not.

Actually Texas doesn't have a particularly high murder rate.
View attachment 23504
Are companies going to withdraw out of South Carolina, DC, Louisiana or Missouri because they are too violent? Probably not.

Wow. I didn't realize it was so scary down there in the US. Canada is that much safer?? The next time I am in Windsor and look across to Detroit, maybe I should bring a bulletproof vest.

 

[Derec]

What struck me was that New Hampshire had > 0.0 murders, yet a 0 per capita murder rate.

Good catch! Their formula must be broken. It should be 1.25.

That link has issues. First off, they list per capita numbers as percentages.

Yes. The murder rate is given as per 100,000 which is very different than a percentage.

 

[Derec]

Wow. I didn't realize it was so scary down there in the US. Canada is that much safer?? The next time I am in Windsor and look across to Detroit, maybe I should bring a bulletproof vest.

The numbers are per 100,000. So your chances of getting killed are still slim.

 

[Kusa]

To put it very simply. The government gives you the right to free speech, but that doesn't mean that Walmart has to allow you to say whatever you want in their stores.

The government gives you the right to own a gun, assuming you aren't a criminal, but that doesn't mean that Walmart has to allow you to carry your gun into their stores.

The government does not give rights.

 

[Patooka]

To put it very simply. The government gives you the right to free speech, but that doesn't mean that Walmart has to allow you to say whatever you want in their stores.

The government gives you the right to own a gun, assuming you aren't a criminal, but that doesn't mean that Walmart has to allow you to carry your gun into their stores.

The government does not give rights.

Governments are the only ones that can. It's not the fucking hari krishnas that can deny you the right to vote, free speech etc.

 

[Kusa]

To put it very simply. The government gives you the right to free speech, but that doesn't mean that Walmart has to allow you to say whatever you want in their stores.

The government gives you the right to own a gun, assuming you aren't a criminal, but that doesn't mean that Walmart has to allow you to carry your gun into their stores.

The government does not give rights.

Governments are the only ones that can. It's not the fucking hari krishnas that can deny you the right to vote, free speech etc.

Read the US Constitution. It doesn’t grant rights, it recognizes them and puts limitations on governmental infringement of them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How about just make a law that a guy must either leave his gun or his penis in the car when entering private businesses.

I never really got that penis / gun connection. When I see a rocket, I see a rocket, not a penis... that's pretty gay. When I see a gun, I see a gun, not a penis... That's not exactly what's on my mind... like ever.

Perhaps those that imagine penises when they think about anything that has any part on it that is cylindrical may have some issues to work out. <shrug>

If guns are supposed to be substitute genitalia, and only those who dislike guns refer to them that way, what does it say about their desire to restrict and eliminate guns? Some sort of castration fantasy?

Nobody can have a bigger dick than me!

 

[Patooka]

Governments are the only ones that can. It's not the fucking hari krishnas that can deny you the right to vote, free speech etc.

Read the US Constitution. It doesn’t grant rights, it recognizes them and puts limitations on governmental infringement of them.

That's a difference without distinction. Rights can't exist without government consent. Try it and prove me wrong. Tell David Koresh I said hi.

 

[Elixir]

Are there companies that are willing to withdrawal from Texas because it's too violent. Probably not.

Actually Texas doesn't have a particularly high murder rate.
View attachment 23504
Are companies going to withdraw out of South Carolina, DC, Louisiana or Missouri because they are too violent? Probably not.

Wow. I didn't realize it was so scary down there in the US. Canada is that much safer?? The next time I am in Windsor and look across to Detroit, maybe I should bring a bulletproof vest.

We should make Canada a State, in order to bring down the overall US rate.

 

[fast]

A legal right is a creature of law. Where there is no law, there is no legal right. No legal rights exist in a lawless society. Legal rights are granted by government.

There are rights that may exist without the existence of law (like, oh say, natural rights), but similar as they may be, there’s a subtle difference between the two that oughtn’t be readily dismissed.

Let’s suppose we wanted to create a list of animals that would make for a good pet. Not everyone will generate the same list. Someone somewhere is going to include a hippopotamus on her list, and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if a unicorn found it’s way on someone’s list too. I would submit that some purported natural rights don’t even exist and not all those that do exist will be recognized by (and granted by and protected by) a governing body, but those natural rights recognized by law is on a list of its own and referred to as legal rights.

 

[braces_for_impact]

As repubs often say - let the marketplace handle issues instead of overreaching government regulations. So is Walmart's kinda sorta new request to please not carry guns into the store and reduced the selling of ammunition a marketplace response to the lack of gun control? I think it is but it's token. Are there companies that are willing to withdrawal from Texas because it's too violent. Probably not. I as a business owner have had opportunities in Texas, but its very much an OBC (Old Boys Club). I have found more opportunities in Wyoming surprisingly (as a female business owner), but I digress.

I don't think the marketplace can handle the gun violence issue. There will still be too many ways to obtain guns illegally and without laws that regulate guns - more gun violence will happen at greater frequency.,

Corporations are in it for the money, and so will do whatever is good for business, which usually means whatever is popular with the people. These two things often, but not always, align. Corporations that have made recent firearm announcements like Walmart, Kroger etc. recognize the value in not scaring their customers when they're present to do shopping. Put simply, many of us will show up to do some shopping and see a gentleman strolling down aisle 5 with an AR-15 strapped to his back, are going to leave, post haste. The guy could lose his shit. The gun could go off by accident, it could draw some other kind of trouble. What if they don't let him use double coupons?! The hardcore gun fetishists however, are not huge in number, and for all their protestations of not shopping in Walmart anymore will not affect sales much.

The real issue is that the corporations own the politicians through our system of (legal, but still) bribery. So now we have trouble addressing the politicians to make changes, as is obvious by so many in the US wanting more background checks and other measures taken (Even Republicans) that do not take place. So we have to petition the corporations for those changes now. Not your House Rep and Senator. Sad, but true.

 

[Kusa]

Governments are the only ones that can. It's not the fucking hari krishnas that can deny you the right to vote, free speech etc.

Read the US Constitution. It doesn’t grant rights, it recognizes them and puts limitations on governmental infringement of them.

That's a difference without distinction. Rights can't exist without government consent. Try it and prove me wrong. Tell David Koresh I said hi.

Rights can exist without government consent. You have the right to defend yourself. The government didn’t grant that to you, you simply have it. That doesn’t mean that you won’t be attacked by someone including your own government.

 

[fast]

Rights can exist without government consent.

Correct. Natural rights can. Legal rights cannot.

You have the right to defend yourself.

Correct. You have the natural right no what the government says. You have the legal right if the government says so.

The government didn’t grant that to you, you simply have it.

Correct. The government can’t grant natural rights. They can recognize that we have natural rights and decide to grant us the legal right to exercise them.

That doesn’t mean that you won’t be attacked by someone including your own government.

Correct. Four out of four. I would have expected better, but you can only do what you can do.

 

[southernhybrid]

Other stores following Walmart's example.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/06/business/open-carry-walmart-cvs-walgreens.html

Several more of the country’s most ubiquitous retail chains said this week that they will ask customers to refrain from openly carrying guns in their stores. The requests, days after Walmart announced a similar policy, marked a notable shift in the debate about the presence of guns in everyday life in the United States.

In a short statement posted Thursday, CVS Health requested that customers, other than authorized law enforcement personnel, do not bring firearms into its 9,900 stores in the country. Walgreens, with 9,500 stores, did so as well. Both chains noted that they were joining other retailers. Wegmans, a supermarket chain with 99 stores mainly in the Northeast, noted its request on Twitter.

“The sight of someone with a gun can be alarming, and we don’t want anyone to feel that way at Wegmans,” the tweet said.

As private entities, the retailers have the right to restrict guns in their stores. But it remained unclear how they might compel customers to comply, and the policies were framed as requests, not outright bans. Several other large chains have enacted similarly worded policies over the last several years, including Starbucks, Target, Costco and Chipotle.