Intelligence, race and related issues.

[Politesse]

Ya know, the recent replication crisis in psychology knocked down many a supposed finding on human behavior, like priming. But not IQ. IQ findings are consistently and reliably replicated. To say there are no objective measures for intelligence is uninformed.

What are you talking about? IQ tests have been discredited for decades.

 

[ruby sparks]

Ya know, the recent replication crisis in psychology knocked down many a supposed finding on human behavior, like priming. But not IQ. IQ findings are consistently and reliably replicated. To say there are no objective measures for intelligence is uninformed.

What are you talking about? IQ tests have been discredited for decades.

When the adults in a sub-Saharan African country have an average IQ score of 59, and anything below 70-75 is labelled 'mentally retarded' in a western, developed country, it's a strong sign something may be wrong with using the same measure across very different cultures and societies.

 

[ruby sparks]

And also your study most likely are not considering adult IQ.

Not only wrong, but also previously noted by me in a reply to you. So, not only do you not provide citations, and not read ones that are cited for you, you don't even read posts properly.

But setting all that aside, what if, say, environment has little or no effect at adulthood? That wouldn't be altogether surprising, because we might expect it to have greater influence in earlier years and dissipate later. But it would seem to say very little about the general questions raised in and by the thread, vis-a-vis the role of genetics and/or environment in human intelligence. In other words, what was even your actual point anyway?

 

[Starr]

Just thought I'd share this with the thread, a wonderful critique of The Bell Curve, though it is the length of a feature length movie, so not for the faint of heart:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBc7qBS1Ujo

 

[barbos]

And also your study most likely are not considering adult IQ.

Not only wrong, but also previously noted by me in a reply to you. So, not only do you not provide citations, and not read ones that are cited for you, you don't even read posts properly.

I provided all the citations Why should I read your posts when you don't read mine?

But setting all that aside, what if, say, environment has little or no effect at adulthood? That wouldn't be altogether surprising, because we might expect it to have greater influence in earlier years and dissipate later. But it would seem to say very little about the general questions raised in and by the thread, vis-a-vis the role of genetics and/or environment in human intelligence. In other words, what was even your actual point anyway?

The actual point is that it's nature=100% and nurture=0% as opposed to the clearly erroneous initial claim that it's nature=0% and nurture=100%

 

[barbos]

Ya know, the recent replication crisis in psychology knocked down many a supposed finding on human behavior, like priming. But not IQ. IQ findings are consistently and reliably replicated. To say there are no objective measures for intelligence is uninformed.

What are you talking about? IQ tests have been discredited for decades.

When the adults in a sub-Saharan African country have an average IQ score of 59, and anything below 70-75 is labelled 'mentally retarded' in a western, developed country, it's a strong sign something may be wrong with using the same measure across very different cultures and societies.

Just because some idiots failed at conducting IQ test does not mean that test itself is bullshit.

 

[Trausti]

Remember, it’s an inconsequential fluke that global IQ tracks with global wealth. It’s just the wealthy countries are hoarding all the magic dirt, leaving low IQ countries with tragic dirt. Liberal creationists really need you to believe that.

 

[barbos]

Remember, it’s an inconsequential fluke that global IQ tracks with global wealth. It’s just the wealthy countries are hoarding all the magic dirt, leaving low IQ countries with tragic dirt. Liberal creationists really need you to believe that.

Well, introducing IQ tests developed in the west to countries which barely literate and have very different culture is problematic.
To get a reliable result one has to be willing to take the test and be familiar with it. I would not trust IQ test results of some amazon tribe.

 

[Trausti]

Remember, it’s an inconsequential fluke that global IQ tracks with global wealth. It’s just the wealthy countries are hoarding all the magic dirt, leaving low IQ countries with tragic dirt. Liberal creationists really need you to believe that.

Well, introducing IQ tests developed in the west to countries which barely literate and have very different culture is problematic.
To get a reliable result one has to be willing to take the test and be familiar with it. I would not trust IQ test results of some amazon tribe.

Which explains why East Asians score so poorly.

 

[barbos]

Remember, it’s an inconsequential fluke that global IQ tracks with global wealth. It’s just the wealthy countries are hoarding all the magic dirt, leaving low IQ countries with tragic dirt. Liberal creationists really need you to believe that.

Well, introducing IQ tests developed in the west to countries which barely literate and have very different culture is problematic.
To get a reliable result one has to be willing to take the test and be familiar with it. I would not trust IQ test results of some amazon tribe.

Which explains why East Asians score so poorly.

East Asians practice taking these tests since kindergarten. Despite attempts to make IQ tests insensitive to training/practice it is sensitive.
I had to practice before my GRE, in USSR there was nothing which would prepare me for retarded scenarios in these tests.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Which explains why East Asians score so poorly.

East Asians practice taking these tests since kindergarten. Despite attempts to make IQ tests insensitive to training/practice it is sensitive.
I had to practice before my GRE, in USSR there was nothing which would prepare me for retarded scenarios in these tests.

Did you score well with the retarded scenarios?

 

[barbos]

Which explains why East Asians score so poorly.

East Asians practice taking these tests since kindergarten. Despite attempts to make IQ tests insensitive to training/practice it is sensitive.
I had to practice before my GRE, in USSR there was nothing which would prepare me for retarded scenarios in these tests.

Did you score well with the retarded scenarios?

Below average, 30% if I remember correctly. My English was terrible at the time but the main problem with GRE test was time, there was not enough time to do it all in a proper way and one had to do a lot of guessing and skipping. Completely alien strategy for me or anyone in Russia.
Also, I remember doing practice tests and one of the problem was simply wrong becasue it had two correct answers

 

[Trausti]

Which explains why East Asians score so poorly.

East Asians practice taking these tests since kindergarten. Despite attempts to make IQ tests insensitive to training/practice it is sensitive.
I had to practice before my GRE, in USSR there was nothing which would prepare me for retarded scenarios in these tests.

Uh, no they don't. And it's unclear how that would affect Asian-Americans who, shockingly, score similarly to their cousins in East Asia. Indeed, looking at the US, racial groups tend to match their global cousins' IQ. 1. East Asian; 2. White; 3. Latino; 4. Black.

 

[barbos]

Which explains why East Asians score so poorly.

East Asians practice taking these tests since kindergarten. Despite attempts to make IQ tests insensitive to training/practice it is sensitive.
I had to practice before my GRE, in USSR there was nothing which would prepare me for retarded scenarios in these tests.

Uh, no they don't. And it's unclear how that would affect Asian-Americans who, shockingly, score similarly to their cousins in East Asia. Indeed, looking at the US, racial groups tend to match their global cousins' IQ. 1. East Asian; 2. White; 3. Latino; 4. Black.

I am not saying there is no real difference in IQ tests between (genetically) different groups, in fact I was the one who said that one should expect difference. I am merely saying that cultural/educational bias is present.

 

[barbos]

Watched Bones yesterday and 75% nature and parenting being pointless was mentioned there. Looks like it's becoming common knowledge that parenting and forced education is bullshit.

 

[fromderinside]

So we've come all this way and never a mention of Burt and Trivers: Genes in Conflict:The Biology of Selfish Genetic Elements https://www.google.com/search?q=Gen...69i57j69i60.4268j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 For an overview read  Intragenomic conflict.

I read it right along with Diamond's work. Burt and Trivers emphasize that for most alleles there are several genes or gene groups competing in each of us for ascendency in expression. So internal, external, and modifiable (eg. Methylation) factors can influence every grab bag term like IQ, tribe, nature, nurture. My plan is to wait until we can model all of this before I begin speculating about socially defined terms genetic or behavioral consequences.

That means I'm not going to speculate beyond saying Shockley, one of the Bell labs Nobel prize winners for the transistor, was an idiot on his use of statistics in which was described in the much read and misused book Shockley On Eugenics and Race by Roger Pearson: https://www.gwern.net/docs/genetics/selection/1992-pearson-shockleyoneugenicsandrace.djvu.

 

[Trausti]

Remember, race does not exist.

 

[Trausti]

Ancestry has nothing to do with intelligence. Nothing.

 

[repoman]

Bone marrow transplants were not available in the past for any species that had children with moderately disparate members of that species.

It is something that is an odd quirk and means little.

Now if you had a family history of leukemia and were proven to carry a dominant (not sure about how it works) gene for it then it would be a good idea to have a child with someone who not only was of the same race, but even a closer match than that.

This is so rare as to be meaningless.

 

[repoman]

Is there something related to neoteny and maturation time and intelligence?

Humans are neotenic primates and Chi/Jap/Kor area people are neotenic even by human standards?