Why do people believe in hell?

[ruby sparks]

Yeah, like, not worshipping a god is so totally evil. And the only fair punishment is eternal suffering.

Go Christianity. What lovely woo it is. Good job it’s a complete load of superstitious bollocks.

 

[abaddon]

So, when I read an article recently that asked why people believe in hell, I found it intriguing and disturbing. I'd like to know the thoughts of others, especially any Christian conservatives that dare to explain why they believe in hell.

I take the Bible seriously, even the parts that horrify, baffle, confound me.
That means that cherry picking is not really acceptable.
That means that hell is pack of the package, notwithstanding whatever I may feel about it.The Bible treats it seriously so I must too.

Agreed.

Also, hell is logically consistent with (theological) morality.

A God who didn't punish unrepentant evil wouldn't deserve to be called God. A law which isn't enforced isn't really a law at all.

So it'd be awful if a serial killer broke God's law and killed several people. It's not enough to compensate the evil he's done if he goes to prison for life, and not enough if he's given a lethal injection.

But if that serial killer goes to hell forever, then is justice done? Does that make things right?

 

[DBT]

So, when I read an article recently that asked why people believe in hell, I found it intriguing and disturbing. I'd like to know the thoughts of others, especially any Christian conservatives that dare to explain why they believe in hell.

I take the Bible seriously, even the parts that horrify, baffle, confound me.
That means that cherry picking is not really acceptable.
That means that hell is pack of the package, notwithstanding whatever I may feel about it.The Bible treats it seriously so I must too.

Agreed.

Also, hell is logically consistent with (theological) morality.

A God who didn't punish unrepentant evil wouldn't deserve to be called God. A law which isn't enforced isn't really a law at all.

Is atheism a case of unrepentant evil? Or belonging to the 'wrong' religion?

 

[steve_bank]

If I may, an old joke.

A man dies and goes to Hell. He is met by Satan who says it isn't too bad you do have a few options on how to spend eternity.

They walk into a cave where people are screaming in agony being torn appart by a rain of spears.

'I'll pass on this one', says the man.

Thy go to a second cave where people are on fire, and the man declines.

They walk into a third cave where people are up to their necks in a pool of floating turds and sewage drinking coffee,

'This doesn't look too bad', the man says grabbing a cup of coffee and wading in. As Satan leaves he says, 'Coffee break is over, back on your heads'

It is funny how theists leerily interpret and invent what hell may or may not be. Each on to themselves a deep profound thinker pondering deep theological questions.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

If I may, an old joke.

A man dies and goes to Hell. He is met by Satan who says it isn't too bad you do have a few options on how to spend eternity.

They walk into a cave where people are screaming in agony being torn appart by a rain of spears.

'I'll pass on this one', says the man.

Thy go to a second cave where people are on fire, and the man declines.

They walk into a third cave where people are up to their necks in a pool of floating turds and sewage drinking coffee,

'This doesn't look too bad', the man says grabbing a cup of coffee and wading in. As Satan leaves he says, 'Coffee break is over, back on your heads'

It is funny how theists leerily interpret and invent what hell may or may not be. Each on to themselves a deep profound thinker pondering deep theological questions.

It's the power of fantasy.

I think there is also a touch of survival strategy also involved, specifically the strategy of clinging to an abusive guardian. Hey, I may have to sacrifice everything decent, ethical and wholesome that I hold dear, but at least I'll be alive tomorrow.

 

[Politesse]

The Pew forum provided some interesting statistics on this topic about five years ago, as part of the larger Religious Landscape Study. This was a massive study, sample size 35,000. At that time, about 58% of Americans believed in Hell in some form or another, a proportion which has remained relatively consistent the past few decades despite a general decline in religious participation during the same time frame. Theists are more likely to believe in hell than non-theists, though there is considerable variation between denominations and faiths. More Americans believe in heaven than believe in hell, by about a ten percent margin, suggesting that Universalism is a more common position than is normally supposed.

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/belief-in-hell/

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The Pew forum provided some interesting statistics on this topic about five years ago, as part of the larger Religious Landscape Study. This was a massive study, sample size 35,000. At that time, about 58% of Americans believed in Hell in some form or another, a proportion which has remained relatively consistent the past few decades despite a general decline in religious participation during the same time frame. Theists are more likely to believe in hell than non-theists, though there is considerable variation between denominations and faiths. More Americans believe in heaven than believe in hell, by about a ten percent margin, suggesting that Universalism is a more common position than is normally supposed.

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/belief-in-hell/

That is absolutely, incredibly, fascinatingly, unbelievably amazing. Such a crazy, crazy, crazy irrational concept has such a following.

I recall a similar finding about our ancestral parents supposedly inhabiting a magical garden. The crazy is not lurking just below the surface, the crazy is the surface. Memetics rule.

 

[steve_bank]

If I may, an old joke.

A man dies and goes to Hell. He is met by Satan who says it isn't too bad you do have a few options on how to spend eternity.

They walk into a cave where people are screaming in agony being torn appart by a rain of spears.

'I'll pass on this one', says the man.

Thy go to a second cave where people are on fire, and the man declines.

They walk into a third cave where people are up to their necks in a pool of floating turds and sewage drinking coffee,

'This doesn't look too bad', the man says grabbing a cup of coffee and wading in. As Satan leaves he says, 'Coffee break is over, back on your heads'

It is funny how theists leerily interpret and invent what hell may or may not be. Each on to themselves a deep profound thinker pondering deep theological questions.

It's the power of fantasy.

I think there is also a touch of survival strategy also involved, specifically the strategy of clinging to an abusive guardian. Hey, I may have to sacrifice everything decent, ethical and wholesome that I hold dear, but at least I'll be alive tomorrow.

I agree that anything providing a group identity enhances survival. Unless it leads to war and destruction. One of the past British PMs said on religion and American politics 'religion has its place'. A rational approach.

 

[steve_bank]

What, pray tell, does an atheist hell look like?

Time and time aging the word atheist is used without definition. Years back a British study on religion vs atheism concluded it was pointless. There is no one singular atheist. One can be atheist and believe in ghosts.

Atheist is a rejection of a belief, it has no specific beliefs attached to it.

 

[Learner]

People believe in hell because it feels good to think they are going to heaven. Without the duality heaven has no meaning.

Believing in hell doesn't feel good as you think, if those close to us don't believe in it.

 

[Learner]

People believe in hell because it feels good to think they are going to heaven. Without the duality heaven has no meaning.

There is still eternal life vs annihilationism.

Annihilationism, yes excreationist nice one, that was what I meant in my previous post - extinguished into smoke. There have been two views and debates with some of the verses amongst theists. I think its both i.e. judgement of the lesser-evils to the extreme-evil so to speak

 

[DBT]

There are verses that suggest that, then there are verses that explicitly state eternal torment.

 

[Learner]

There are verses that suggest that, then there are verses that explicitly state eternal torment.

Absolutely, I'm glad you now mention it.

when I said when reading the bible we don't read it the same way . I meant the bible ...not those few verses you picked out.

 

[Learner]

What do you believe these verses are saying;

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." - Daniel 12:2

''And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.'' - Revelation 20:15


“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. - Matthew 25:41

''And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” - Revelation 14:11

''But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him! '' - Luke 12:5

I'm pretty certain it can mean whatever anyone wants it to mean, regardless of what it actually says. That's how religion works.

I don't think the religious should take all the "credit", atheists have talents too.

Besides, Its not just the NT (as some posts claim), the post in bold highlights Daniel in the OT saying the same thing... well spotted!

 

[DBT]

There are verses that suggest that, then there are verses that explicitly state eternal torment.

Absolutely, I'm glad you now mention it.

when I said when reading the bible we don't read it the same way . I meant the bible ...not those few verses you picked out.

The quoted verses are not negated because there are other things in the bible, they are just a small sample. They are not somehow transformed to mean the opposite of what they clearly say.

 

[Learner]

There are verses that suggest that, then there are verses that explicitly state eternal torment.

Absolutely, I'm glad you now mention it.

when I said when reading the bible we don't read it the same way . I meant the bible ...not those few verses you picked out.

The quoted verses are not negated because there are other things in the bible, they are just a small sample. They are not somehow transformed to mean the opposite of what they clearly say.

I don't suggest we see it as opposite, I can agree with the above. We both agree it reads, all sinners go to hell. I'm saying 'not all' may end up there forever (to be consumed or to perish) as you seem to agree with:

There are verses that suggest that, then there are verses that explicitly state eternal torment.

It is an on-going progressive process of course,and I think there are theists starting to take to it, still needs further study tbh. Just clicked on a vid with Frank Turek, who was also asked about annihilationism, and even though he is a believer of the common understanding of hell. He says that those paticular verses do seem possibly to say that too. We are learning.

 

[DBT]

The quoted verses are not negated because there are other things in the bible, they are just a small sample. They are not somehow transformed to mean the opposite of what they clearly say.

I don't suggest we see it as opposite, I can agree with the above. We both agree it reads, all sinners go to hell. I'm saying 'not all' may end up there forever (to be consumed or to perish) as you seem to agree with:

Why is it a matter of what I may or may not agree with, or what so and so may believe? What the verses say is there for all to see and read. If there is something to be found in them that says that only some are condemned, that claim needs to be supported by verse. Expressing ones belief doesn't mean much if its not supported. The claim that some may not end up in hell forever needs to be justified.

 

[Learner]

I'll just say briefly (going to work). Let us say then, differences of conceptual viewpoints of hell. You say a thief will be judged with the same punishment as Hitler or Satan. I disagree.

 

[DBT]

I'll just say briefly (going to work). Let us say then, differences of conceptual viewpoints of hell. You say a thief will be judged with the same punishment as Hitler or Satan. I disagree.

I don't say anything. I merely point to what the verses say. It's up to you to show where the distinction is made within the source material. It has nothing to do with me.

 

[excreationist]

People believe in hell because it feels good to think they are going to heaven. Without the duality heaven has no meaning.

There is still eternal life vs annihilationism.

Annihilationism, yes excreationist nice one, that was what I meant in my previous post - extinguished into smoke. There have been two views and debates with some of the verses amongst theists. I think its both i.e. judgement of the lesser-evils to the extreme-evil so to speak

Have you looked into this? (post #96) Please at least read all through "jewish not greek"


https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...elieve-in-hell&p=754669&viewfull=1#post754669


Also here is a guest preacher that studied hell for his master's thesis and concluded that it isn't eternal for humans: (note I am with a very conservative church which is even against the ordination of women)
https://www.play.bible/watch/master-q-rjznuzh8g

Eternal hell is the traditional church view but then some Christians have tried looking into it - like Edward Fudge who was asked to research it for a year.