Is pedophelia a mental illiness?

[NobleSavage]

Not sure if I should put this in natural science or social science anyhow another thread made me wonder about this question.

Pro: Many pedophiles were sexually molested as children (or so I've heard. Never seen stats).

Con: Homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness. I've also heard, but don't believe, that homosexuals were often abused as children.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't think so. Rather, I apply Occam's Razor to sexuality. Look at all the various sexualities that exist.

First, take the most obvious grouping: heterosexual/bisexual/homosexual/asexual. Do we really need four systems to explain this, especially since two of these have substantial downsides when it comes to reproductive success?

I think it makes much more sense if these are just emergent properties, the actual wiring is two systems, one for attraction to men, one for attraction to women. Both systems have reproductive value. Homosexuality and asexuality are simply mis-set switches. The fact that later births are more likely to be homosexual also is much easier to explain if it's switches rather than underlying systems.

Now, consider pedophilia: Again, it appears to be a reproductive dead end. However, consider: What do those who are attracted to women find the most desirable? As young as possible but sexually mature. Suppose pedophilia is once again just a switch--a failure of the "but sexually mature" part of the definition.

Given this model I can easily see molestation as a child making someone more likely to be a molester themselves--not from making them a pedophile but from messing them up and making them more likely to act on their desires. (It's like there are actually far more sociopaths out there than we see in the criminal system: Most obey societies' rules despite lacking the built-in systems for this.)

 

[Malintent]

It is a misunderstanding (or mearly over simplification) to say that "homosexuality represents a downside to reproductive success". Evolution works on populations, not individuals... an individual that does not reproduce may be benifitting the population by not benifitting themselves.

How many babies will not starve to death due to you not taking the food from their mouths to selfishly feed your own baby?

 

[Bronzeage]

Not sure if I should put this in natural science or social science anyhow another thread made me wonder about this question.

Pro: Many pedophiles were sexually molested as children (or so I've heard. Never seen stats).

Con: Homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness. I've also heard, but don't believe, that homosexuals were often abused as children.

There is one thing homosexuality and pedophia have in common.

For every pedophile or homosexual who believes some event or condition in their childhood caused them to be the way they are, there are a thousand people with the identical circumstances, who are not a pedophile or a homosexual.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I've never seen the justifacation to describe it as a mental disorder.

 

[rousseau]

A mental illness is a neurophysiological condition that directly affects a person's most important day-to-day functioning, so I'd say no, pedophilia isn't a mental illness.

You could extend mental illness to include edge cases like pedophilia, but once you go too far in extending the definition of mental illness you'll start having trouble finding anybody *without* a mental illness of some kind. Personally, I prefer to go the opposite way and extend the definition of normalcy.

 

[Bronzeage]

Sexuality and the psychology of sexual attraction is a spectrum. Without resorting to labels of right, wrong, good, or bad, it's possible to chart the population, based on who, or what, cranks their tractor.

The largest cluster is seen at the point where a person is attracted to a person of the opposite sex, who is close to the same age and same social background. As we move away from the center, we find people attracted to the same sex. This is thinner than the first cluster, but still a significant number. Somewhere on the outer areas, we find people who like to have sex only with a person wearing shoes, or maybe with just the shoes. We also find people who want to have sex with dogs and barnyard animals.

Pedophilia is an outlier. What distinguishes it from the the other bizarre longings found far from the center, is it is a desire which harms the desired. Society takes up the challenge protecting the helpless, a group which includes children and animals.

It would be nice if pedophilia were a mental illness in the conventional sense of the word. There would be some kind of therapy and medication which could allow them to function in society and not be a hazard to the rest of us. It's probably not going to be that easy, because of all the mental illnesses, pedophilia is one which cannot be excused in the same way we make allowances for the schizophrenic and severely depressed.

In the end, it doesn't matter if pedophilia is a mental illness, or not. Unless it leads to an effective treatment, it will not change the way we deal with pedophiles.

 

[dystopian]

On one hand, there's an argument to be made that any psychology that negatively effects one ability to function within the 'normal' range of our societal experience constitutes a mental illness. Which means that a pedophile could be classed as mentally ill because he can't function fully the way the rest of us do as long as society doesn't allow him to (by depriving him of the ability to engage in his preferences the way the rest of us do, or by actively persecuting him). On the other hand, that'd be a slippery slope that could lead you to argue that not getting date for the night also constitutes a mental illness.

A mental illness is a neurophysiological condition that directly affects a person's most important day-to-day functioning, so I'd say no, pedophilia isn't a mental illness.

You could extend mental illness to include edge cases like pedophilia, but once you go too far in extending the definition of mental illness you'll start having trouble finding anybody *without* a mental illness of some kind.

I don't agree that a mental illness specifically has to have neurophysiological basis; that leaves out too many conditions we do tend to class as mental illnesses. Rather, a mental illness should probably be defined more along the lines of 'a psychological state that significantly impairs one's ability to function, which persists even in the absence of external conditions that might have initiated it or otherwise induce such a state in a person'.

Personally, I prefer to go the opposite way and extend the definition of normalcy.

The real question is; does classing it as a mental illness help anyone? Society tends to be far more willing to help those whose actions and tendencies it abhors if those actions and tendencies are deemed the result of mental illness. Let's face it, society isn't going to extend the definition of normalcy to include adults having sex with pre-teenaged children; nor should it. If we don't treat pedophiles as mentally ill, then it seems to me to be more likely that they'd be treated as criminals instead of people who could conceivably be helped. What's better for the pedophiles themselves, and society as a whole; imprisoning the few pedophiles who get caught and drive the rest of them further underground? Or treating them as sick people who we monitor and try to help overcome or at least control their urges?

The best we can hope for in terms of a compromise between these two positions, I think, is developing the means to enable pedophiles to indulge their urges without actually victimizing anyone, and giving people the legal right to make use of such means (it needs to be a universal and un-targeted right, rather than something you only allow for identified pedophiles, or it won't reach the hidden ones out there); which means something like sexbots designed to look like kids, or some virtual reality experience that involves digitally created models. However, given how most countries are paranoid enough to make even pen and pencil drawings of kids in sexual positions a crime punishable with jailtime, I don't see that happening anytime soon, which to me seems to make it so that pushing the 'it's a mental illness' route stands the better chance of doing the most good for now.

 

[Hickdive]

As offenders often seem to have been victims as children themselves I suspect paedophilia is a fetish; although that appears to be an old-fashioned view of how fetishes develop.

It would be a neat trick to enable men (and it is overwhelmingly men) who find themselves drawn to children sexually to offer them treatment before they commit offences whilst still punishing those who don't seek treatment and do commit criminal acts.

 

[Angry Floof]

As offenders often seem to have been victims as children themselves I suspect paedophilia is a fetish; although that appears to be an old-fashioned view of how fetishes develop.

It would be a neat trick to enable men (and it is overwhelmingly men) who find themselves drawn to children sexually to offer them treatment before they commit offences whilst still punishing those who don't seek treatment and do commit criminal acts.

That would be neat, but probably won't happen any time soon if at all. People are too reactive and emotional, which is understandable, but it creates an environment in which people who have such tendencies have no one to turn to with confidence to help them and they end up just living with it in misery or succumbing and harming children.

I've known two people who confided in me that they have this tendency. As far as I can tell, neither of them has ever even touched a child much less harmed one. Both expressed highly ethical views on appropriate behaviors with children, and show no indication that they will ever try to have sex with a child. I hope with all my heart that these men and others like them can get whatever help they need to deal with their urges in a way that won't ever tempt them to touch a child.

I read a story recently of a teenager with pedophilia tendencies who did get professional help only to be told that she wouldn't help him. Even professionals who strive for objectivity find it hard not to be reactive about this topic. :/

 

[dystopian]

It would be a neat trick to enable men (and it is overwhelmingly men)

Actually, this is outdated thinking. Researchers generally believe that the number of female pedophiles is seriously underestimated (for a number of reasons). While men do represent the majority of them, women are estimated to make up to 20% of the total figure in the UK ( http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2009/10/05/2003455163 ); curiously, the average female offender is also significantly younger themselves than the average male offender.

At the very least it isn't a specifically male problem; and we really can't afford to treat it as such.

 

[Hickdive]

It would be a neat trick to enable men (and it is overwhelmingly men)

Actually, this is outdated thinking. Researchers generally believe that the number of female pedophiles is seriously underestimated (for a number of reasons). While men do represent the majority of them, women are estimated to make up to 20% of the total figure in the UK ( http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2009/10/05/2003455163 ); curiously, the average female offender is also significantly younger themselves than the average male offender.

At the very least it isn't a specifically male problem; and we really can't afford to treat it as such.

I think an 80/20 male/female split is still overwhelmingly male. YMMV.

 

[NobleSavage]

Jesse Ryan Loskarn was a Senate aid in DC. He got caught with child porn. His suicide note is tragic:

http://www.jesseryanloskarnslastmessage.com/333880300

The only think I could think is we are doing it wrong.

 

[dystopian]

I think an 80/20 male/female split is still overwhelmingly male. YMMV.

Fair enough; personally I'd put 'overwhelming' more in the 95/5 range but that's pretty arbitrary I suppose. Either way, don't think the offender's gender should be the focus of any response to the problem.

 

[doubtingt]

First, you need to separate clinically diagnosed pedophilia from legal terminology. Legally, pedophiles can mean anyone who ever once engaged in any sex-related crime involving legally under age persons.

Clinically, actual actions are not required, just obsessive thoughts and fantasies, and the children need to be pre-pubescent. A teacher who is otherwise normal but winds up attracted to and having sex with one particular 14 year old student of theirs might be called a pedophile by the law, but is not a clinical pedophile.

Clinically speaking,

Pedophilia is a type of paraphilia—a category of recognized mental disorders defined by unusual fantasies, urges, or behaviors that are recurrent and sexually arousing. In order for pedophilia to be diagnosed clinically these thoughts or behaviours must be present for at least six months and must cause distress to the affected individual or impairment of the individual’s ability to function socially or occupationally. A clinical diagnosis of pedophilia also requires that the affected individual be at least 16 years of age and at least 5 years older than the child (or children) at the centre of the individual’s sexual fantasies.

Note the distress and impairment features of the obsession, which indicate it is self-destructive nature and thus a disorder and an illness. These are not just people that broke the law by taking an opportunity that presented itself to have sex with a minor. They are people whose sexual thoughts and arousal center primarily and often exclusively upon pre-pubescent kids. Many hate themselves for it, and/or never act upon it but cannot stop the thoughts and arousal. Sounds like an illness to me.
All thoughts and actions are caused by the brain, but whether it is a brain-based illness is another matter and assumes that the roots are biological and that experiences play little role.

The wiki on it suggests a emerging evidence of root neurological factors, including brain structure differences at birth and early childhood head injuries that predict the disorder. And other research suggesting that being abused oneself is not a cause of the mental disorder, but can be a trigger for actually acting out the fantasies and committing criminal acts.

There will be strong social resistance to thinking of it as a mental disorder, especially a brain based one, because we so strongly hate the actions that we want to hate those who commit them, and a biologically based disorder throws a wrench into such punishment craving judgmental anger.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Not sure if I should put this in natural science or social science anyhow another thread made me wonder about this question.

Pro: Many pedophiles were sexually molested as children (or so I've heard. Never seen stats).

Con: Homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness. I've also heard, but don't believe, that homosexuals were often abused as children.

There's a few ways to define mental disorders. So depending on the context what is considered a mental affliction changes. So your comparison with homosexuality may or may not be relevant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder

Also, most theories regarding mental illnesses agree that there's both a genetic and an environment component. There is no correlation between abuse and homosexuality. None at all. It's been thoroughly studied. There's a correlation between homosexuality and the number of older siblings you've got. I'm not sure in what category that fits? It also seems to be a stable phenomena in every culture and region, as well as species. That's a pretty strong indicator that it's largely down to genetic factors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Psychology

 

[credoconsolans]

It is a misunderstanding (or mearly over simplification) to say that "homosexuality represents a downside to reproductive success". Evolution works on populations, not individuals... an individual that does not reproduce may be benifitting the population by not benifitting themselves.

How many babies will not starve to death due to you not taking the food from their mouths to selfishly feed your own baby?

Exactly what I read also in evolutionary theories.

It could also apply to pedophiles, which is why they keep appearing in the population.

You have a subset of humans - homosexuals and pedophiles - who do not desire sexual partners who are capable of reproducing, therefore they stick close to their original family group and most of their assistance and resources go back into their own genetic family group and help their siblings and their siblings' offspring survive, thus their own genes are carried into future generations.

 

[NobleSavage]

I read once about a factory worker who accidentally got rebar shot through his head. He lived and was normal except that he developed pedophilia. I don't know if this is an urban legend or not. I'll try and search more tonight when I get back home.

 

[Bronzeage]

I read once about a factory worker who accidentally got rebar shot through his head. He lived and was normal except that he developed pedophilia. I don't know if this is an urban legend or not. I'll try and search more tonight when I get back home.

Probably a legend.

There is a documented case from the 19th century of a railroad worker who had a tamping rod(1/2inch diameter steel rod) driven through the bottom of his chin and out the top of his skull. He was expected to die, but after several weeks of good nursing care, he recovered from the wound. The story says his personality was drastically changed. He had been a crew supervisor but could no longer organize or plan for more than a few minutes at a time. He apparently became an Elwood P. Dowd type character, well liked or just tolerated, but a peaceful happy person.

 

[Angry Floof]

I read once about a factory worker who accidentally got rebar shot through his head. He lived and was normal except that he developed pedophilia. I don't know if this is an urban legend or not. I'll try and search more tonight when I get back home.

Probably a legend.

There is a documented case from the 19th century of a railroad worker who had a tamping rod(1/2inch diameter steel rod) driven through the bottom of his chin and out the top of his skull. He was expected to die, but after several weeks of good nursing care, he recovered from the wound. The story says his personality was drastically changed. He had been a crew supervisor but could no longer organize or plan for more than a few minutes at a time. He apparently became an Elwood P. Dowd type character, well liked or just tolerated, but a peaceful happy person.

 Phineas Gage, probably the most famous brain injury. Before the injury, he was a pleasant, reliable guy but the injury made him kind of a bastard, although he eventually adapted fairly well.

Here is a case of a brain tumor apparently causing uncontrollable pedophilia, which disappeared on removal of the tumor. http://www.newscientist.com/article...-uncontrollable-paedophilia.html#.VELc5vnF-So