Olympia mayor takes the knee, BLM vandalises her home anyway

[Derec]

Why is it so hard for some people to acknowledge the FACT that white supremacists and other anti-BLM types routinely destroy property and incite violence in order to place blame for it on BLM?

That happens sometimes, but why is it so hard for some people to acknowledge the FACT that black supremacists and their white allies routinely destroy property and incite violence.
Given the political leanings of most Portlandia residents, it is far more likely any white people were genuine leftists/#BLM supporters.

Is it rooted in a sincere conviction that white supremacists and other anti-BLM types cannot possibly be the bad guys in any situation?

More like the opposite - you assume that the most #BLM violence is "false flag" without any evidence.

Or a conviction that BLM types, whether or not they actually destroyed property or indulged in violence, are must necessarily be the bad guys?

I do not like #BLM types because they are way to quick to condemn police shootings of black suspects regardless of . People like Michael Brown, Freddie Grey, etc. are not examples of "police brutality".

Just plain old fashioned racist thinking?

On whose part though? You assume a white person engaging in violence is automatically a "white supremacist".

 

[Derec]

I don't know about what happened in Olympia but I do know someone I have known a long time and trust who actually saw the white guy with the umbrella start the destruction at the protest in Minneapolis as was documented in video.
So that's why some of us think about false flags, etc. We've actually seen it happen.

Him being white says nothing about his political leanings and therefore it is not indicative of whether it is a "false flag" operation or not.

 

[Derec]

Olympia, not Portland, my bad.
It has even less black population ~ 2%. It is 83% white too. And Hillary carried that county decisively,

So hardly surprising that the #BLM activists there are white.

 

[ronburgundy]

Definitely not appropriate. A politician's private residence is not public space; it's terrorizing them as people, not spreading your message.


Though, I don't agree that taking the knee necessarily makes one above criticism on race issues. It's a gesture, not a magickal token.

There is no secular occasion, except perhaps in a bedroom, where the spectacle of 'taking the knee' does not fill me with quiet dread. Genuflection is an act of reverence and worship and belongs with all the dehumanising accoutrements of religion--in the past.

So, you agree that taking a knee is an act of reverence. Therefore, all claims that taking a knee "disrespects" the anthem and soldiers are patently absurd lies covering up the fact that fascist white supremacist are angry that anyone would dare to complain about black men being murdered by cops.

 

[Politesse]

Do you feel that way about the pledge of allegiance and the anthem, or are you super selective and arbitrary about what acts of performative submission you find acceptable?

I am not American so I've never been forced to participate in the pledge of allegiance, but I reckon I'd find it as tiresome and pointless as being forced to recite the Our Father every morning in primary school (Roman Catholics hold their own with repetitive chanting to imaginary friends).

As for the anthem, I don't watch the sportball much but do you agree with forcing people to stand, or kneel, for a national anthem? I do not.

I also find the Acknowledgment of Country - a pointless, hypocritical, and empty utterance of contrition that opens many corporate and government events in Australia - to be supremely tiresome. It is forced prayer, and I gave up praying when I realised nobody was listening.

So when watching an American football game, for instance, you would be equally enraged at those who choose to take the knee, and those who have their hands over their hearts? You're just sort of generally anti-gesture and thus find the entirety of American public culture repugnant? I have some bad news for you about cops, mayors, protestors and rioters in this country, they all do the things that upset you, in about equal measure. We're handsy people. Lots of saluting, bowing, bending, raising of fists, closing of eyes, moments of silence, big long funeral processions, hands up before I shoot you, etc, etc.

 

[ruby sparks]

So when watching an American football game, for instance, you would be equally enraged at those who choose to take the knee, and those who have their hands over their hearts?

I believe the answer to that is yes. I'm almost certain he started a thread on it not long ago, entitled, "pointless, hypocritical, tiresome and empty utterances of contrition at public events". Or maybe not.

 

[Lion IRC]

I also find the Acknowledgment of Country - a pointless, hypocritical, and empty utterance of contrition that opens many corporate and government events in Australia - to be supremely tiresome. It is forced prayer, and I gave up praying when I realised nobody was listening.

https://www.indigenous.gov.au/contact-us/welcome_acknowledgement-country

The Welcome To / Acknowledgement of Country ritual is deeply connected to the #BLM racism narrative in Australia. I dont think you can spin it as a problem for atheism.

 

[Metaphor]

So, you agree that taking a knee is an act of reverence.

Among other things. A vassal kneels when he swears fealty to his lord. A penitent kneels in prayer as mortification of the flesh. Zod mad the POTUS kneel before him as a sign that the human race was abjectly hopeless and that humans submitted their new leader.

Therefore, all claims that taking a knee "disrespects" the anthem and soldiers are patently absurd lies covering up the fact that fascist white supremacist are angry that anyone would dare to complain about black men being murdered by cops.

I've never cared about the paraphernalia of patriotism, such as pledges, flags or an anthem. I care that kneeling to somebody on the street is an act of utter subservience. Have you seen the footage of Mayor Selby taking the knee? She didn't give her enthusiastic consent. She looked genuinely fearful of the consequences from the surrounding mob of not kneeling.

 

[Metaphor]

So when watching an American football game,

I don't watch the sportball by and large. I've never watched a game of American football. Some people don't live in America and some people are not interested in the sportball. I know it's hard to believe.

for instance, you would be equally enraged at those who choose to take the knee, and those who have their hands over their hearts?

People choosing to do it? No, that doesn't outrage me. I don't care if you go to Mass on Sunday (church if you're a hellbound Protestant). I care if you expect me to or make me go.

You're just sort of generally anti-gesture and thus find the entirety of American public culture repugnant?

I'm not "anti-gesture" in some wider sense, like shaking hands with people you've been introduced to. I'm anti rituals that express political or religious sentiment being forced on people who are there for other business.

If your workplace every morning asked everybody to stand up while a Hail Mary was recited over the PA system, wouldn't you object?

Do you think there is value in daily recitations of the pledge of allegiance? Even if you do, do you think people should be forced to recite it?

I have some bad news for you about cops, mayors, protestors and rioters in this country, they all do the things that upset you, in about equal measure. We're handsy people. Lots of saluting, bowing, bending, raising of fists, closing of eyes, moments of silence, big long funeral processions, hands up before I shoot you, etc, etc.

Have you seen the footage of the mayor of Olympia taking the knee? She did not seem like she wanted to. She seemed in fear of physical harm to me.

 

[Politesse]

I, indeed, assumed that you did not watch American football, hence why it was stated as a hypothetical. Neither do I, if it can be helped. That was, however, the context in which the gesture of taking a knee for the anthem originated.

I'm not "anti-gesture" in some wider sense, like shaking hands with people you've been introduced to. I'm anti rituals that express political or religious sentiment being forced on people who are there for other business.

Then you're good, as there is no religious element to the BLM movement, to my knowledge. Rather less of one, in fact, than there was to the vaunted Civil Rights movement of the American South.

If your workplace every morning asked everybody to stand up while a Hail Mary was recited over the PA system, wouldn't you object?

Do you think there is value in daily recitations of the pledge of allegiance? Even if you do, do you think people should be forced to recite it?

Certainly not. Nor do I think anyone should be forced to take the knee. But it would be diplomatically prudent at the moment, and costs nothing but pride.

Have you seen the footage of the mayor of Olympia taking the knee? She did not seem like she wanted to. She seemed in fear of physical harm to me.

Then perhaps they are right to suppose, whoever "they" are, that she did not mean to follow up the gesture with corresponding actions. This would be in keeping with the history of her office.

But as I said, I do not approve of vandalizing the mayor's private residence.

 

[Metaphor]

Then you're good, as there is no religious element to the BLM movement, to my knowledge.

BLM is a political movement. I am disturbed by people genuflecting to political movements also.

Certainly not. Nor do I think anyone should be forced to take the knee. But it would be diplomatically prudent at the moment, and costs nothing but pride.

From seeing some Democrats in their 70s getting down and up from their knees, I'd say the price is higher than merely pride (the footage is sort of funny but mostly sad). But being forced to kneel is about more than 'pride'. It is a symbol of abject subservience. The people you are kneeling to are your masters or gods.

Then perhaps they are right to suppose, whoever "they" are, that she did not mean to follow up the gesture with corresponding actions. This would be in keeping with the history of her office.

But as I said, I do not approve of vandalizing the mayor's private residence.

The problem is the gesture itself, not merely the fact that in Mayor Selby's case, she seemed afraid of physical violence if she did not kneel.

For the elected leaders who are kneeling 'voluntarily' to BLM, are they aware of what those actions look like to people who were raised religious? I suspect they are aware and don't care. You do not kneel to friends or allies. You kneel to people who have conquered you by force. You kneel to the queen because it's off with your head if you don't. People kneel to god for the same reason.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The person who spray paints looks white to me.

No surprise. Most of the vandalism etc is not coming from the protesters.

 

[laughing dog]

Taking a knee in protest is a way to peaceful respect. In many sport, taking a knee is done to respect an injured player.

In a protest it has nothing whatsoever to do with penitence or subservience regardless of history practice or religious ceremonies. How someone incorrectly interprets the taking of the knee reflects on them, not the action itself.

I would not be surprised if the vandalism was done by sympathizers of the BLM. Unless there is clear evidence that the house was targeted because it was the mayor's residence, so what? Vandalizing a home at random is not a form of protest but a form of pure shittiness. It was stupid, indefensible and regretable. Thinking it makes some sort of statement about BLM protesters as a group is equivalent to thinking that hail damage is done by the devil.

 

[Metaphor]

In a protest it has nothing whatsoever to do with penitence or subservience regardless of history practice or religious ceremonies.

Sure, and what happened in Cary had no religious connotations neither.

 

[Derec]

Taking a knee in protest is a way to peaceful respect. In many sport, taking a knee is done to respect an injured player.

Is that why Kaep was wearing those "pig cop" socks? To show "peaceful respect"? Not buying it.

I would not be surprised if the vandalism was done by sympathizers of the BLM.

At least you acknowledge that.

Unless there is clear evidence that the house was targeted because it was the mayor's residence, so what?

If it wasn't, it would be a huge coincidence.

Thinking it makes some sort of statement about BLM protesters as a group is equivalent to thinking that hail damage is done by the devil.

Except the devil is fictional and #BLMers are not.

 

[Derec]

The person who spray paints looks white to me.

No surprise. Most of the vandalism etc is not coming from the protesters.

Just because the person is white does not mean he is not one of the protesters nor does it mean that he is not a supporter of #BLM.

 

[laughing dog]

Is that why Kaep was wearing those "pig cop" socks? To show "peaceful respect"? Not buying it.

That reflects on you, not the protester.

If it wasn't, it would be a huge coincidence.

Stuff like that happens frequently. I was under the impression you were "innocent until proven guilty". Oh yes, that is only for accused rapists.

Except the devil is fictional and #BLMers are not.

The Lucky Charms icon is fictional as well.

 

[laughing dog]

Sure, and what happened in Cary had no religious connotations neither.

Thank you for proving my point. An overt religious act (foot washing) demanded by a religious leader in protest does have the religious history and connotation behind it.

People taking a knee to show respect and support for the "BLM" movement are not being subservient.

Your take on taking a knee reflects much more on you than it does on the protesters or their form of protest.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The next time I'm at a sporting event I'm going to take a knee during the anthem. The reaction from those seated around me will be interesting.

 

[Metaphor]

Sure, and what happened in Cary had no religious connotations neither.

Thank you for proving my point. An overt religious act (foot washing) demanded by a religious leader in protest does have the religious history and connotation behind it.

People taking a knee to show respect and support for the "BLM" movement are not being subservient.

Your take on taking a knee reflects much more on you than it does on the protesters or their form of protest.

Sure Jan.