It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Toni, I agree with you that the odds of these 5 hanging deaths being coincidental and unrelated to the racial tensions are essentially zero. Not only is it extremely rare in the last century (never even heard of a case in my life) for people to hang themselves from a tree in a public place, but black men are 1/4 as likely as white men to kill themselves in general. Five such suicides in a week has a random chance probability of less than 1 in a million.

However, there are at least alternative possibilities to simple random chance. One is that they are suicides, but they are non-random and triggered by the racial unrest, using a "lynching" technique in order to make a statement. Another is they are non-racially motivated killings (which could include gang killings) that used the "lynching" technique either as a cover-up/misdirect or to make political statement on top of the real reasons for the killings. Finally, there is the possibility that they are actual racially motivated lynchings. And of course, they could be a mixture of these. Either way, they certainly warrant additional Federal investigation, especially the proven general incompetence and bias of local police departments who have ruled the "suicides".

Another factor here--some people don't want it to be known they committed suicide. Hence you sometimes find "murders" that are really staged suicides. They have been known to make it look like a hate crime.

For example...

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

“And nothing else to put it into correct perspective” is the missing component to your repeated use of this idiotic apologetic.

What perspective?

The one that accurately contextualizes the stats instead of what you keep doing.

This narrative has become an article of faith for fauxgressives and whoever challenges it is labeled a heretic.

No, they're labeled "fucking morons."

 

[Trausti]

No, it isn't a wash. That has zero impact on these stats. The stats are unaffected by the probable race of any killer. They reflect the relative % of potential white and black victims that any killer of either race is likely to encounter, which is the same ratio no matter how many killers there are. The question is not who is more likely to be killed by someone of the other race, b/c that is heavily a function of simple population sizes and doesn't reflect systematic targeting of the other race. The question is, when someone of each race kills someone, are they differentially targeting the other race beyond other factors that should equally impact other race killings in both directions (random probability and proximity).

Black people constantly travel through, shop in, work in areas with a large % of whites who are the majority in every random direction from their home. Whites rarely travel trough, shop in or work in areas that are a large % blacks.

I don't agree that white people rarely "travel trough, shop in or work in areas that are a large % blacks" because most, if not all, major cities have "a large % [of] blacks".

And many white live in areas where finding a single black person for 20 miles is difficult.

20 mile radius is ~1250 sq. miles. Even in Vermont, you are liable to find some black people in such a big area.
And relatively few white people live in areas such as Vermont. Most white people live in cities and suburban areas that are at least somewhat diverse. Even Burlington, VT is 5% black.

No black person in the US lives in an area where it would take more than 5 minutes to find a white person or more than 15 to be surrounded mostly by whites. Thus, just by random probability, the % of victims killed by blacks who are white should be 6 times greater than the percentage of people killed by whites who are black. But it isn't, it's only double which is 1/3 of what is should be. Thus, victims of whites are 3 times more likely to be black than they would be if they were only targeting blacks at the same rate as blacks were targeting whites.

Again, even if all that were true (and it is not) you keep hitting the same problem that it applies both to the pool of potential victims and of the perpetrators. Therefore, it cancels out and what remains, and cannot be conjured away, is the fact that twice as many black people kill white people than vice versa.

No, it doesn't cancel. Imagine you have a black and a white killer, each moving about and you have 100 black people and 600 white people also moving about. Ignoring segregation-caused proximity, what are the random odds that each killer kills a white man? It is 6 out of 7 or 6:1 in ratio terms. Both should kill 6 times more whites than blacks if their killings are random.
If we double the # of killers to 2 of each race, the answer is the same. If we say there are 6 white killers and 1 black killer, the answer is the same.

But the observed ratios are actually 11:1 to for white killers and 1:5 for black killers. So, both group of killers are killing fewer people of the other race than predicted by random chance. And this makes sense b/c proximity is a major determinant of who a killer kills. But proximity works equally both ways, and this is where you are likely getting confused. Segregation means that more that blacks are clustered and live around mostly other blacks, the more that whites live around mostly whites and the fewer blacks they encounter. However, the data show that proximity is not an equal determinant of who is killed by each race. For black killers, this proximity is leading them to killing 30 times fewer whites than predicted by population demographics, 6/1 ÷ X = 1/5, solve for X = 30. Therefore, a similar size effect of proximity for white killers mean 6/1 * 30 = 180/1 (since the proximity works changes the chance ratios in opposite direction for each race of killer, the ratio is divided by X for blacks and multiplied for whites)

In other words, if white and black killers where equally targeting victims via a combination of random population probability and proximity, then the observed 1:5 white:black victim ratio for black killers would be mirrored by a 180:1 white:black ratio for white killers. Instead, we see a 1:5 ratio for black killers but a mere 11:1 ratio for white killers. That means that whatever factors beyond population demographics and proximity that are leading to other-race killings are 15 times stronger among white killers than black killers. And your meaningless stat you are referring to is nothing but you engaging in the base-rate fallacy.

I wouldn't say so much that blacks killing whites is racial targeting; though probably some of it is. It's more that everywhere you look on homicide, black offenders dominate the numbers. Thus you get higher black on white violence than the other way. Indeed, you don't seem to get much going the other way. But seeing how the media spins it, you'd never know.

 

[ruby sparks]

Noose found in garage stall of black US racing driver.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53132933

If true, not entirely surprising, given that he had successfully campaigned to get the Confederate flag banned from races.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Toni, I agree with you that the odds of these 5 hanging deaths being coincidental and unrelated to the racial tensions are essentially zero. Not only is it extremely rare in the last century (never even heard of a case in my life) for people to hang themselves from a tree in a public place, but black men are 1/4 as likely as white men to kill themselves in general. Five such suicides in a week has a random chance probability of less than 1 in a million.

However, there are at least alternative possibilities to simple random chance. One is that they are suicides, but they are non-random and triggered by the racial unrest, using a "lynching" technique in order to make a statement. Another is they are non-racially motivated killings (which could include gang killings) that used the "lynching" technique either as a cover-up/misdirect or to make political statement on top of the real reasons for the killings. Finally, there is the possibility that they are actual racially motivated lynchings. And of course, they could be a mixture of these. Either way, they certainly warrant additional Federal investigation, especially the proven general incompetence and bias of local police departments who have ruled the "suicides".

Another factor here--some people don't want it to be known they committed suicide. Hence you sometimes find "murders" that are really staged suicides. They have been known to make it look like a hate crime.

For example...

The one that comes to mind isn't exactly a hate crime: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Bill_Sparkman

 

[Derec]

If true, not entirely surprising, given that he had successfully campaigned to get the Confederate flag banned from races.

He was wrong to do that, but the noose is also wrong. Unless Wallace pulled a Smollett, of course.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

For example...

The one that comes to mind isn't exactly a hate crime: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Bill_Sparkman

Right. That one doesn't count as being staged to look like a hate crime.

 

[ruby sparks]

He was wrong to do that, but the noose is also wrong.

Whether is is right or wrong to either oppose or support the flying of a flag is a matter of debate involving subjective opinion. The key difference here is that one party is apparently (temporarily assuming no shenanigans on the part of the driver) invoking an implied threat of murder to accompany the expressing of their opinions regarding the flag. So I would not put the two on a par, and I doubt the law would either, and I doubt if you would.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

For example...

The one that comes to mind isn't exactly a hate crime: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Bill_Sparkman

Right. That one doesn't count as being staged to look like a hate crime.

Staged to look at an hate-the-feds crime.

 

[Trausti]

Noose found in garage stall of black US racing driver.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53132933

If true, not entirely surprising, given that he had successfully campaigned to get the Confederate flag banned from races.

Fake Noose.

 

[Arctish]

Noose found in garage stall of black US racing driver.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53132933

If true, not entirely surprising, given that he had successfully campaigned to get the Confederate flag banned from races.

Fake Noose.

Your posted quote indicates it was a genuine noose but was already there when the garage was assigned to Wallace, therefore there is no evidence its presence was due to a hate crime.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Noose found in garage stall of black US racing driver.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53132933

If true, not entirely surprising, given that he had successfully campaigned to get the Confederate flag banned from races.

Fake Noose.

Your posted quote indicates it was a genuine noose but was already there when the garage was assigned to Wallace, therefore there is no evidence its presence was due to a hate crime.

But look at the response, though. The whole damned field turned out in support of Wallace. They certainly acted like it was at least possible, AND that none of them wanted to be associated with that shit.
A unanimous 'homie don't play that,' in a year where we still cannot get congress to be unanimously against lynching.
That's the news item, here.

 

[thebeave]

Noose found in garage stall of black US racing driver.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53132933

If true, not entirely surprising, given that he had successfully campaigned to get the Confederate flag banned from races.

Fake Noose.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYoNL4g5Vg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[ruby sparks]

Noose found in garage stall of black US racing driver.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53132933

If true, not entirely surprising, given that he had successfully campaigned to get the Confederate flag banned from races.

Fake Noose.

If correct, good, and hopefully it will be reported (including the BBC amending as necessary).

 

[Derec]

About Robert Fuller, turns out that too was a suicide.
Robert Fuller: Hanging death of black man ruled suicide

Robert Fuller, 24, had a history of mental illness and took his own life, said officials in Palmdale, California.
A post-mortem examination had returned an initial finding of suicide, but this was rejected by Mr Fuller's family, prompting a further investigation.
His death last month came amid protests over the death of George Floyd.
According to the Los Angeles Times, Mr Fuller had attended a Black Lives Matter protest on the eve of his death.

So the family hid his history of mental disease to push the false "lynching" narrative.

Mr Fuller's family described him as someone who enjoyed music and video games, and insisted he would not have taken his own life.
[...]
On Thursday, Los Angeles sheriff commander Chris Marks told a news conference that Mr Fuller had gone to a California hospital in February 2019 and said he was hearing voices telling him to kill himself.
He also said that Mr Fuller was treated at a hospital in Nevada last November for suicidal ideation.

But that doesn't fit the "white people are bad m'kay" propaganda that #BLM are so invested in.

 

[thebeave]

We've had a number of threads over the years about black men dying under unexplained circumstances, and the go-to explanation is generally, "Probably killed by a racist white guy or guys". When the death was finally investigated and solved, did it ever turn out to be due to white racists? I can't think of one myself, but maybe I missed one.

 

[Politesse]

We've had a number of threads over the years about black men dying under unexplained circumstances, and the go-to explanation is generally, "Probably killed by a racist white guy or guys". When the death was finally investigated and solved, did it ever turn out to be due to white racists? I can't think of one myself, but maybe I missed one.

Funny how, when the police force and court system are stacked with white nationalists, they never find that "mysterious deaths" were hate crimes.

 

[Harry Bosch]

We've had a number of threads over the years about black men dying under unexplained circumstances, and the go-to explanation is generally, "Probably killed by a racist white guy or guys". When the death was finally investigated and solved, did it ever turn out to be due to white racists? I can't think of one myself, but maybe I missed one.

Funny how, when the police force and court system are stacked with white nationalists, they never find that "mysterious deaths" were hate crimes.

Holy Crap. I had no idea. Could you send us citation with that documents this so that we can expose these meanies?

 

[Politesse]

We've had a number of threads over the years about black men dying under unexplained circumstances, and the go-to explanation is generally, "Probably killed by a racist white guy or guys". When the death was finally investigated and solved, did it ever turn out to be due to white racists? I can't think of one myself, but maybe I missed one.

Funny how, when the police force and court system are stacked with white nationalists, they never find that "mysterious deaths" were hate crimes.

Holy Crap. I had no idea. Could you send us citation with that documents this so that we can expose these meanies?

A very well-known 2006 Internal review by the Federal Bureau of Investigation: (link)

Article, including interviews with some of the investigators within the Bureau and the DHS expressing concern about continued infiltrations as of 2017: (link)

Documentation of hundreds of cases of sitting police and officials who have participated in WN groups and rhetoric online: (link)

Database collecting racist memes created or shared by thousands of active duty officers in Philadelphia alone: (link)

2018 Report to the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia, and Related Intolerance, documenting abuses in both enforcement and justice systems: (link)

Documentation of inequitable sentencing in the US justice system based on a 2020 study: (link)

 

[thebeave]

And in another case of mistaken identity by the bored and always outraged Keystone SJW mob...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-inn-removes-norwegian-flag-as-residents-falsely-believe-its-the-confederate-flag-report

A case of mistaken identity has caused the owners of a Michigan bed and breakfast to remove a Norwegian flag from the front of the inn after dozens of people confused the flag with a Confederate flag, a report said.

When Greg and Kjersten Offbecker moved into the historic mansion in St. Johns years ago and turned it into a bed and breakfast called Nordic Pineapple, they installed the flag as a decoration and hung an American flag next to it, WLIX reported.