This week in Woke: Actresses justly cancelled for committing atrocities

[Metaphor]

So, what you are saying is that this person actually had no power to do the thing that they were trying to do to you, just like "The Woke" in your OP had no power over Halle Barry, other than that of a convincing (to her) argument.

No. I'm saying the Woke can and did come after me and attempted to ruin my livelihood.

I've since changed my entire social media presence to avoid it in the future.

 

[Metaphor]

What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that "The Woke" should have pressured the screenwriter, director, or casting director to rescind the offer to her instead, and that if they had done that you would have been fine with it?

No? I think the Woke are fucking crazy with no sense of morality or decency, and their proscription on cis people playing trans people is a whacko religious edict that they are trying to force on others.

Then what point were you trying to make when you made your response in the following exchange?

That the Woke are fucking crazy with no sense of morality or decency, and their proscription on cis people playing trans people is a whacko religious edict that they are trying to force on others.

 

[Metaphor]

It may surprise you that adjectives describe things that are real.

Yes. In this case, race hysteria and paranoid fantasies of persecution.

Alright luv.

 

[KeepTalking]

So, what you are saying is that this person actually had no power to do the thing that they were trying to do to you, just like "The Woke" in your OP had no power over Halle Barry, other than that of a convincing (to her) argument.

No. I'm saying the Woke can and did come after me and attempted to ruin my livelihood.

I've since changed my entire social media presence to avoid it in the future.

You also noted that the attempt failed, and that is because "The Woke" actually did not have any power to get you fired. Whether you like it or not, this is analogous to the fact that "The Woke" in your OP also had no power to compel Halle Barry to give up her role or lose her livelihood, they merely presented her with an argument that she found compelling.

 

[Politesse]

It may surprise you that adjectives describe things that are real.

Yes. In this case, race hysteria and paranoid fantasies of persecution.

Alright luv.

Seriously, one person sends one e-mail, and you're like "oh my god this is a grand international conspiracy to silence me, J.K. Rowling, and Halle Berry on pain of death". Do you even realize how balls-deep crazy you sound? There is no "the Woke". There are political disagreements, and people who behave well or poorly, just like in any other generation of humanity. No one is plotting your downfall.

 

[Metaphor]

You also noted that the attempt failed, and that is because "The Woke" actually did not have any power to get you fired. Whether you like it or not, this is analogous to the fact that "The Woke" in your OP also had no power to compel Halle Barry to give up her role or lose her livelihood, they merely presented her with an argument that she found compelling.

The Woke have gotten many people fired.

Whether or not Berry found the argument 'compelling' I have not offered an opinion on. I know she withdrew from the role and apologised, that's all.

 

[Metaphor]

Alright luv.

Seriously, one person sends one e-mail, and you're like "oh my god this is a grand international conspiracy

I have never described the Woke as a grand international conspiracy and this is the second time you've characterised it as such. If that's what you think the Woke is, own it. But don't ascribe it to me.

to silence me, J.K. Rowling, and Halle Berry on pain of death". Do you even realize how balls-deep crazy you sound? There is no "the Woke". There are political disagreements, and people who behave well or poorly, just like in any other generation of humanity. No one is plotting your downfall.

Of course there's a Woke. Next you'll be telling me there aren't conservatives or liberals or any other kind of political grouping.

 

[KeepTalking]

What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that "The Woke" should have pressured the screenwriter, director, or casting director to rescind the offer to her instead, and that if they had done that you would have been fine with it?

No? I think the Woke are fucking crazy with no sense of morality or decency, and their proscription on cis people playing trans people is a whacko religious edict that they are trying to force on others.

Well, I think "The Woke" are your personal boogeyman, and that you are so afraid of their criticism that you are finding them everywhere you look and ascribing more power to them than they will ever have.

Then what point were you trying to make when you made your response in the following exchange?

That the Woke are fucking crazy with no sense of morality or decency, and their proscription on cis people playing trans people is a whacko religious edict that they are trying to force on others.

Well, yeah, I kind of get that you have that obsession with "The Woke", but can we get back to how it is that Halle Barry making her initial decision was just fine, but that there is somehow a problem with her changing that decision after being presented with an argument that she found compelling. Is it just because you don't agree with that later decision, or is it a general principle that actors and actresses should not be allowed to decline roles that they have previously accepted? Oh, maybe it is that no one is allowed to reverse a decision ever, is that what you are on about?

 

[KeepTalking]

You also noted that the attempt failed, and that is because "The Woke" actually did not have any power to get you fired. Whether you like it or not, this is analogous to the fact that "The Woke" in your OP also had no power to compel Halle Barry to give up her role or lose her livelihood, they merely presented her with an argument that she found compelling.

The Woke have gotten many people fired.

Did "The Woke" get anyone fired, or did the actions people took get them fired when they came to light? This is where you might want to present evidence of "The Woke" getting people fired unjustly. I'll wait.

Whether or not Berry found the argument 'compelling' I have not offered an opinion on. I know she withdrew from the role and apologised, that's all.

If you think she withdrew from the role because she found the argument compelling, then what the fuck is the thread all about? Please take some time to figure out exactly what you are outraged about and how it pertains to Halle Berry declining this role, and then get back to us.

 

[Politesse]

I have never described the Woke as a grand international conspiracy and this is the second time you've characterised it as such. If that's what you think the Woke is, own it. But don't ascribe it to me.

to silence me, J.K. Rowling, and Halle Berry on pain of death". Do you even realize how balls-deep crazy you sound? There is no "the Woke". There are political disagreements, and people who behave well or poorly, just like in any other generation of humanity. No one is plotting your downfall.

Of course there's a Woke. Next you'll be telling me there aren't conservatives or liberals or any other kind of political grouping.

You keep talking about "the Woke" as though they are all of one mind and pursuing a single political project (the conspiracy) that is operant in at the very least the United States, the United Kingdom, and Australia (the international aspect). What am I confused about here?

Yes, conservatives and liberals exist, but it would be just as fricking insane to say that you, Berry, and Rowling, are all being persecuted by "The Liberal", or that you are one of "The Fascist" whom they are targeting.

 

[Politesse]

Well, I think "The Woke" are your personal boogeyman, and that you are so afraid of their criticism that you are finding them everywhere you look and ascribing more power to them than they will ever have.

Then what point were you trying to make when you made your response in the following exchange?

That the Woke are fucking crazy with no sense of morality or decency, and their proscription on cis people playing trans people is a whacko religious edict that they are trying to force on others.

Well, yeah, I kind of get that you have that obsession with "The Woke", but can we get back to how it is that Halle Barry making her initial decision was just fine, but that there is somehow a problem with her changing that decision after being presented with an argument that she found compelling. Is it just because you don't agree with that later decision, or is it a general principle that actors and actresses should not be allowed to decline roles that they have previously accepted? Oh, maybe it is that no one is allowed to reverse a decision ever, is that what you are on about?

She didn't even accept the role, just said that she was considering it.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

As I said earlier, a term for the Woke (not 'The Woke', I would only capitalize 'The' in the beginning of a sentence) would be useful. Maybe 'Wokes', like 'Muslims', 'Christians', 'Marxists', 'Buddhists', etc. Unfortunately, there is no such word available as far as I know, and that's why I talk about the Woke. But I can talk about 'Woke people' instead (which I also used before). I'm not implying they are part of a vast organization - though there are obviously organized attacks by Woke people, of course, in addition to the disorganized ones.

 

[Politesse]

As I said earlier, a term for the Woke (not 'The Woke', I would only capitalize 'The' in the beginning of a sentence) would be useful. Maybe 'Wokes', like 'Muslims', 'Christians', 'Marxists', 'Buddhists', etc. Unfortunately, there is no such word available as far as I know, and that's why I talk about the Woke. But I can talk about 'Woke people' instead (which I also used before). I'm not implying they are part of a vast organization - though there are obviously organized attacks by Woke people, of course, in addition to the disorganized ones.

There is no such group. People talk about "getting woke" or "staying woke", referencing an influential pop song that became something of a popular aesthetic in the mid 2010s. This got somewhat loosely connected to the social theories of Davis Cross, and for a while was quite trendy in Leftist circles. It is now used primarily as a pejorative by conservatives, having peaked and declined as a self-referential term by the end of 2019. But there is (and never was) no differential group of "Wokians" akin to "Christians" or "Communists". To say that the Woke are trying to come after you makes as much sense as saying that the Turned On were after you in the late 1960s. To be sure, people often described themselves as being "turned on" during that time period. But there are no Turned Ons, and there are no Wokes.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

There is no such group. People talk about "getting woke" or "staying woke", referencing an influential pop song that became something of a popular aesthetic in the mid 2010s. This got somewhat loosely connected to the social theories of Davis Cross, and for a while was quite trendy in Leftist circles. It is now used primarily as a pejorative by conservatives, having peaked and declined as a self-referential term by the end of 2019. But there is (and never was) no differential group of "Wokians" akin to "Christians" or "Communists". To say that the Woke are trying to come after you makes as much sense as saying that the Turned On were after you in the late 1960s. To be sure, people often described themselves as being "turned on" during that time period. But there are no Turned Ons, and there are no Wokes.

Sure there is such group. It's defined, like most terms, ostensively. The Woke are the adherents of the religion, ideology or whatever one calls it that has become increasingly powerful in recent years across the world (and in some universities in other places), and includes as some of the paradigmatic beliefs that all sorts of people engage in things like transphobia (though never against non-trans people), sexism ( never against men), racism (never against Whites), and other things of the sort, alongside with accusations against those classified as 'the rich' , or the 1%, etc. (except maybe for allies), etc.

Sure, their beliefs are loosely defined, but so are those of Christians today and that was the case in some other period as well. Moreover, enforcement via social media (condemnantion, harassment, etc.), major media outlets, and so on, produces compliance and reduces the dispersion of beliefs.

 

[Playball40]

This is a matter of degree.

If no trans ever played a trans that would be ridiculous. Same if a shitty trans actor was chosen over a competent cis actor every time.

Of course there have got to be enough competent trans actors coming through the pipeline.

Watched Designated Survivor and the trans actor in it was pretty solid. It was only slightly "talk instead of show" cringey in the writing.

I think there are. Look at Sabrina and Euphoria.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well thank G`D you are an expert on her career where she can only play "beautiful" women. Misogynistic much?

I'm applying Woke ideology. Halle Berry hasn't had the lived experience of being a plain woman; for her to play that experience on screen is misappropriation.

Do you feel that casting, in general, should be gender-blind? Since, as you say, there shouldn't be anything stopping a man from portraying a woman effectively, or vice versa?

My take:

Scriptwriters should aim for the minimum constraints on a character. Casting should respect the constraints that do exist on a character, although in most situations a trans person could fill a role of the gender they present as. Same for things like race--especially with historical stuff it will look wrong if you don't respect the limits and sometimes you simply need consistency--those with genetic ties should look it.

Developed characters should respect the character even if that's politically incorrect at this point. James Bond is a cultured, womanizing white man and should not be cast in any other way--but note that the controversy was with casting someone else as 007, not someone else as James Bond. 007 is a position, the torch can be passed.

 

[Politesse]

There is no such group. People talk about "getting woke" or "staying woke", referencing an influential pop song that became something of a popular aesthetic in the mid 2010s. This got somewhat loosely connected to the social theories of Davis Cross, and for a while was quite trendy in Leftist circles. It is now used primarily as a pejorative by conservatives, having peaked and declined as a self-referential term by the end of 2019. But there is (and never was) no differential group of "Wokians" akin to "Christians" or "Communists". To say that the Woke are trying to come after you makes as much sense as saying that the Turned On were after you in the late 1960s. To be sure, people often described themselves as being "turned on" during that time period. But there are no Turned Ons, and there are no Wokes.

Sure there is such group. It's defined, like most terms, ostensively. The Woke are the adherents of the religion, ideology or whatever one calls it that has become increasingly powerful in recent years across the world (and in some universities in other places), and includes as some of the paradigmatic beliefs that all sorts of people engage in things like transphobia (though never against non-trans people), sexism ( never against men), racism (never against Whites), and other things of the sort, alongside with accusations against those classified as 'the rich' , or the 1%, etc. (except maybe for allies), etc.

Sure, their beliefs are loosely defined, but so are those of Christians today and that was the case in some other period as well. Moreover, enforcement via social media (condemnantion, harassment, etc.), major media outlets, and so on, produces compliance and reduces the dispersion of beliefs.

The entirely imaginary religon that you believe exists, you mean.

 

[Politesse]

Do you feel that casting, in general, should be gender-blind? Since, as you say, there shouldn't be anything stopping a man from portraying a woman effectively, or vice versa?

My take:

Scriptwriters should aim for the minimum constraints on a character. Casting should respect the constraints that do exist on a character, although in most situations a trans person could fill a role of the gender they present as. Same for things like race--especially with historical stuff it will look wrong if you don't respect the limits and sometimes you simply need consistency--those with genetic ties should look it.

Developed characters should respect the character even if that's politically incorrect at this point. James Bond is a cultured, womanizing white man and should not be cast in any other way--but note that the controversy was with casting someone else as 007, not someone else as James Bond. 007 is a position, the torch can be passed.

And how is casting a woman as a trans man, let alone deadnaming and misgendering said character, "respecting the character" in any sense of that word?

 

[starwater]

Well thank G`D you are an expert on her career where she can only play "beautiful" women. Misogynistic much?

I'm applying Woke ideology. Halle Berry hasn't had the lived experience of being a plain woman; for her to play that experience on screen is misappropriation.

So now your claiming your an expert on her life story????? Well she just needs to call you up and get your opinion, because you know you ARE an expert. Please.,

 

[Metaphor]

Well, I think "The Woke" are your personal boogeyman, and that you are so afraid of their criticism that you are finding them everywhere you look and ascribing more power to them than they will ever have.

I'm not afraid of their criticism. I'm afraid that its belief system is becoming increasingly mainstream and its influence on law and culture.

Well, yeah, I kind of get that you have that obsession with "The Woke", but can we get back to how it is that Halle Barry making her initial decision was just fine, but that there is somehow a problem with her changing that decision after being presented with an argument that she found compelling.

I don't know if she found it compelling, any more than I know that Johnny Depp and Amber Heard really found a passion for respecting Australian quarantine law after they produced their little on camera mea culpa.

or is it a general principle that actors and actresses should not be allowed to decline roles that they have previously accepted? Oh, maybe it is that no one is allowed to reverse a decision ever, is that what you are on about?

No.