Stock market drama llama: GameStop shares dramatically rise in price from some Reddit users' trading in it

[Jimmy Higgins]

I mean, if you read through the subreddit, they are pretty up front about everything. Now that it is in the news, though, I bet there's a lot of people who have no idea what they are doing. A bunch of people bought into the dogecoin pump and dump, but I don't think that was the subreddit in question's doing. There are a bunch of organized crypto "pumpers". Not sure what the law says about crypto. Seems like the wild west all around.

Oh, dogecoin is absolutely on WSB. The primary core here is Bed, Bath and Beyond, AMC, Dogecoin, and GameStop.

Silver is a lie.

They are buying and holding. There's not much more to it.

If market volumes are any indication, they are winning, too.

Well, I got in to doge at 0.011 and out at 0.05. Payed off a credit card, put the rest of the gains into AMC. But it's all with money I couldn't give a fuck about. The vast majority of my money goes to old-man target-date funds and my 401k which is just a Vanguard target-date fund.

AMC is down 40% today. This feels a bit like of a pyramid scheme. Someone is making money, likely the people driving the buying because they know when they are going to stop driving it.

 

[Jarhyn]

Well, I got in to doge at 0.011 and out at 0.05. Payed off a credit card, put the rest of the gains into AMC. But it's all with money I couldn't give a fuck about. The vast majority of my money goes to old-man target-date funds and my 401k which is just a Vanguard target-date fund.

AMC is down 40% today. This feels a bit like of a pyramid scheme. Someone is making money, likely the people driving the buying because they know when they are going to stop driving it.

You realize that share prices almost fell to baseline right before the short squeeze on VW actually launched, right?

It's a ladder attack. Nobody is making money, they are just circlejerking on internal trades to drive the price down.

The fact that many retail platforms have jumped on the bandwagon of "only sell, no buy" on meme stocks indicates the situation is getting near it's breaking point.

 

[J842P]

Well, I got in to doge at 0.011 and out at 0.05. Payed off a credit card, put the rest of the gains into AMC. But it's all with money I couldn't give a fuck about. The vast majority of my money goes to old-man target-date funds and my 401k which is just a Vanguard target-date fund.

AMC is down 40% today. This feels a bit like of a pyramid scheme. Someone is making money, likely the people driving the buying because they know when they are going to stop driving it.

You realize that share prices almost fell to baseline right before the short squeeze on VW actually launched, right?

It's a ladder attack. Nobody is making money, they are just circlejerking on internal trades to drive the price down.

The fact that many retail platforms have jumped on the bandwagon of "only sell, no buy" on meme stocks indicates the situation is getting near it's breaking point.

Yeah, although, AMC has been issuing a ton of shares, unlike GameStop.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So now the dialogue is focused on what? A pump and dump "scam"? The retail investors are focused on holding.

The fundamentals of the stock haven't changed. When this is over it will go back to basically what it was before this happened.

This is a particularly creative version of a pump-and-dump.

 

[funinspace]

All beside the point!
Repeat after me:
2.5 seconds!

As somebody who has done ~2.5s 0-60, I can vouch that it feels great. That is over 1g of forward acceleration. I wonder how much lateral acceleration a Tesla can do though.

You should try riding in a C-2 doing 0-150 in ~3s Though the cable braking is seems even more exciting...

 

[Jarhyn]

So now the dialogue is focused on what? A pump and dump "scam"? The retail investors are focused on holding.

The fundamentals of the stock haven't changed. When this is over it will go back to basically what it was before this happened.

This is a particularly creative version of a pump-and-dump.

Except it really isn't. This whole thing started because Deep FuckingValue took out a position some time last year on gamestop, gamestop restructured, is doing their best, and some particularly bad actors on Wall Street decided that they would fail and took every opportunity to see to it. It isn't even a bad company or business!

At any rate, the holders of GME are finally starting to realize that this gives them a say in not only ending the shorting of the company into the ground, but actual power in the company.

It's a defensive move, in favor of a company, against an attack by a hedge fund.

 

[Swammerdami]

... GME (and for some reason only GME, apparently) was forcing users onto a stoploss that they couldn't remove. Once the short ladder attacks lowered the stock enough, there were a few massive (~50m total) buys that rocked the GME volume greatly....

I assume you mean that brokers were forcing the stoplosses. Would I be correct that these sales were forced ONLY on customers who had bought GME on Margin?

And when other hedge funds "bailed out" Whatsit Hedge, I assume that means they took over the short positions (at a big loss to Whatsit) and are making big profits now as GME falls.

I'm too timid and conservative to get involved in any of this, but what's the deal with Silver? (I've got 2% of my savings conservatively tucked away in SIVR shares.)

 

[Axulus]

So now the dialogue is focused on what? A pump and dump "scam"? The retail investors are focused on holding.

The fundamentals of the stock haven't changed. When this is over it will go back to basically what it was before this happened.

This is a particularly creative version of a pump-and-dump.

Except it really isn't. This whole thing started because Deep FuckingValue took out a position some time last year on gamestop, gamestop restructured, is doing their best, and some particularly bad actors on Wall Street decided that they would fail and took every opportunity to see to it. It isn't even a bad company or business!

At any rate, the holders of GME are finally starting to realize that this gives them a say in not only ending the shorting of the company into the ground, but actual power in the company.

It's a defensive move, in favor of a company, against an attack by a hedge fund.

I'm sorry, but this is straight up BS. GameStop will live or die by its own results. The short sellers do not get to change who runs the company or reduce its profits. The response for any company to short sellers is to post strong results, not cry victim.

 

[Jarhyn]

... GME (and for some reason only GME, apparently) was forcing users onto a stoploss that they couldn't remove. Once the short ladder attacks lowered the stock enough, there were a few massive (~50m total) buys that rocked the GME volume greatly....

I assume you mean that brokers were forcing the stoplosses. Would I be correct that these sales were forced ONLY on customers who had bought GME on Margin?

And when other hedge funds "bailed out" Whatsit Hedge, I assume that means they took over the short positions (at a big loss to Whatsit) and are making big profits now as GME falls.

I'm too timid and conservative to get involved in any of this, but what's the deal with Silver? (I've got 2% of my savings conservatively tucked away in SIVR shares.)

No, you would not. They were forcing stoploss on everyone for a period according to the users.

They literally believed that committing actual crimes would be cheaper than covering their position. And we aren't talking about baling out at this point. The bailout was 2b in the midst of a 17b market cap at the time, which is certainly NOT enough to cover the position.

As to silver, the understanding on the street is that Citadel, the primary bag holder on the short position (assuming a squeeze was incoming) wanted to gin up the capital to bust through their short liability, so they had their friends at CNN pump their long holdings (silver) through bald faced lies. There was no reddit run on silver; this was a pure fabrication.

 

[Jarhyn]

Except it really isn't. This whole thing started because Deep FuckingValue took out a position some time last year on gamestop, gamestop restructured, is doing their best, and some particularly bad actors on Wall Street decided that they would fail and took every opportunity to see to it. It isn't even a bad company or business!

At any rate, the holders of GME are finally starting to realize that this gives them a say in not only ending the shorting of the company into the ground, but actual power in the company.

It's a defensive move, in favor of a company, against an attack by a hedge fund.

I'm sorry, but this is straight up BS. GameStop will live or die by its own results. The short sellers do not get to change who runs the company or reduce its profits. The response for any company to short sellers is to post strong results, not cry victim.

You either didn't read the post or I didn't compose it well.

The short sellers do get a say in the valuation of the stock, by their position telegraphing what they say will happen. All they have to do is point out that the stock is shorted. Further, these people are clearly connected to the media; you can tell from the fact that they tried to pump silver to cover their position.

As to what the proper response to shorting is, I expect the response OUGHT to be to outlaw selling that which you do not own.

 

[Swammerdami]

I'm sorry, but this is straight up BS. GameStop will live or die by its own results. The short sellers do not get to change who runs the company or reduce its profits. The response for any company to short sellers is to post strong results, not cry victim.

One of the other companies in the Reddit vs HedgeShort squeeze, IIRC, managed to issue and sell shares, did it? How hard would it have been for GameStop to do that? How does that even work legally? Would it be "pump and dump" if it could be proved management knew their company was way overvalued?

Read about the 1866-1868  Erie War where Drew-Fisk, teamed up with Jay Gould, secretly issued themselves new shares in Erie Railway Company which they promptly sold to Cornelius Vanderbilt. At just one point, Gould showed up at the N.Y. Legislature with a satchel filled with $500,000 in greenbacks; most legislators were taking bribes from both sides. ($500,000 was a lot of money in those days.) Although that legislature did legalize the stock issuance, Gould later gave several $million to Cornelius Vanderbilt in settlement.

Two years later, Gould and Fisk betrayed Drew and drove him to bankruptcy, picking up several hundred $Thousand each. Vanderbilt and Gould, by the way, are the 2nd and 8th wealthiest non-living Americans (of all time) respectively, according to one authoritative(?) list.

Two years after betraying Daniel Drew, Jay Gould himself was swindled out of the railroad by the British imposter known as "Lord Gordon-Gordon." (Canada wouldn't extradite Gordon, so Gould sent kidnappers, who ended up in Canadian jail, with American jingoists responding with war talk. Later Canada DID extradite Gordon, but to the U.K. where he faced charges for a prior jewelry swindle.)

 

[Swammerdami]

As to what the proper response to shorting is, I expect the response OUGHT to be to outlaw selling that which you do not own.

Again, recall that shares sold short have been borrowed from another stockholder who has (in principle) loaned the shares knowingly. To ban that would be akin to making it illegal for me to drive an Avis rental car despite whatever contract Avis and I agree to. Sure, brokerages might not offer the service to all customers, but what's to prevent big players from arranging to borrow shares personally? (Indeed, isn't that how very big short sales are usually arranged?)

 

[Jarhyn]

As to what the proper response to shorting is, I expect the response OUGHT to be to outlaw selling that which you do not own.

Again, recall that shares sold short have been borrowed from another stockholder who has (in principle) loaned the shares knowingly. To ban that would be akin to making it illegal for me to drive an Avis rental car despite whatever contract Avis and I agree to. Sure, brokerages might not offer the service to all customers, but what's to prevent big players from arranging to borrow shares personally? (Indeed, isn't that how very big short sales are usually arranged?)

No, to ban that would be akin to banning you from SELLING a rental car.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So now the dialogue is focused on what? A pump and dump "scam"? The retail investors are focused on holding.

The fundamentals of the stock haven't changed. When this is over it will go back to basically what it was before this happened.

This is a particularly creative version of a pump-and-dump.

Except it really isn't. This whole thing started because Deep FuckingValue took out a position some time last year on gamestop, gamestop restructured, is doing their best, and some particularly bad actors on Wall Street decided that they would fail and took every opportunity to see to it. It isn't even a bad company or business!

At any rate, the holders of GME are finally starting to realize that this gives them a say in not only ending the shorting of the company into the ground, but actual power in the company.

It's a defensive move, in favor of a company, against an attack by a hedge fund.

Gamestop has been dying because the market has changed. Nothing in the current mess will change that, thus nothing in the current mess will change the long-term share price. It was $4 and change before this, it will be again--it's still going to drop 20-fold from it's current value.

 

[Jarhyn]

Except it really isn't. This whole thing started because Deep FuckingValue took out a position some time last year on gamestop, gamestop restructured, is doing their best, and some particularly bad actors on Wall Street decided that they would fail and took every opportunity to see to it. It isn't even a bad company or business!

At any rate, the holders of GME are finally starting to realize that this gives them a say in not only ending the shorting of the company into the ground, but actual power in the company.

It's a defensive move, in favor of a company, against an attack by a hedge fund.

Gamestop has been dying because the market has changed. Nothing in the current mess will change that, thus nothing in the current mess will change the long-term share price. It was $4 and change before this, it will be again--it's still going to drop 20-fold from it's current value.

Gamestop has been dying because the market changed and they did nothing to change with it. Since, they have changed CEO and have been working hard at changing their business's direction.

Already, the reddit crowd is discussing bringing in new strategies, including introducing more PC gamer support (fancy keyboards/mice, graphics cards, memory upgrades). Being able to shlep over to the local strip mall for some PC upgrades would be huge.

In fact, large shares falling to the crowd that is literally gamestop's primary customer base would definitely allow them to regain relevance

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Except it really isn't. This whole thing started because Deep FuckingValue took out a position some time last year on gamestop, gamestop restructured, is doing their best, and some particularly bad actors on Wall Street decided that they would fail and took every opportunity to see to it. It isn't even a bad company or business!

At any rate, the holders of GME are finally starting to realize that this gives them a say in not only ending the shorting of the company into the ground, but actual power in the company.

It's a defensive move, in favor of a company, against an attack by a hedge fund.

I'm sorry, but this is straight up BS. GameStop will live or die by its own results. The short sellers do not get to change who runs the company or reduce its profits. The response for any company to short sellers is to post strong results, not cry victim.

You either didn't read the post or I didn't compose it well.

The short sellers do get a say in the valuation of the stock, by their position telegraphing what they say will happen. All they have to do is point out that the stock is shorted. Further, these people are clearly connected to the media; you can tell from the fact that they tried to pump silver to cover their position.

As to what the proper response to shorting is, I expect the response OUGHT to be to outlaw selling that which you do not own.

You fail to understand how the market works.

In the short run the price responds to pressures such as this. However, in the long run it's going to go to what the performance of the company dictates. That's how the market works--if you think the company is worth more than it's trading for you buy, if you think it's worth less than it's trading for you sell.

 

[funinspace]

Except it really isn't. This whole thing started because Deep FuckingValue took out a position some time last year on gamestop, gamestop restructured, is doing their best, and some particularly bad actors on Wall Street decided that they would fail and took every opportunity to see to it. It isn't even a bad company or business!

At any rate, the holders of GME are finally starting to realize that this gives them a say in not only ending the shorting of the company into the ground, but actual power in the company.

It's a defensive move, in favor of a company, against an attack by a hedge fund.

Gamestop has been dying because the market has changed. Nothing in the current mess will change that, thus nothing in the current mess will change the long-term share price. It was $4 and change before this, it will be again--it's still going to drop 20-fold from it's current value.

Gamestop has been dying because the market changed and they did nothing to change with it. Since, they have changed CEO and have been working hard at changing their business's direction.

Already, the reddit crowd is discussing bringing in new strategies, including introducing more PC gamer support (fancy keyboards/mice, graphics cards, memory upgrades). Being able to shlep over to the local strip mall for some PC upgrades would be huge.

In fact, large shares falling to the crowd that is literally gamestop's primary customer base would definitely allow them to regain relevance

GME reminds me a lot of Kodak just over a decade ago, when they went 'oh shit...digital camera's are da thing'. And I remember thinking, you just figured this out...your already fucked.

Turn around stories are fun reading, but GME is trying for a major shift in their model years after it needed to be done. It is still possible, but the competition they will have to engage isn't exactly sluffing off...

 

[J842P]

You either didn't read the post or I didn't compose it well.

The short sellers do get a say in the valuation of the stock, by their position telegraphing what they say will happen. All they have to do is point out that the stock is shorted. Further, these people are clearly connected to the media; you can tell from the fact that they tried to pump silver to cover their position.

As to what the proper response to shorting is, I expect the response OUGHT to be to outlaw selling that which you do not own.

You fail to understand how the market works.

In the short run the price responds to pressures such as this. However, in the long run it's going to go to what the performance of the company dictates. That's how the market works--if you think the company is worth more than it's trading for you buy, if you think it's worth less than it's trading for you sell.

Pushing the price down in the short run can cause the company to fail, so there will be no long run.

 

[Gospel]

To survive gamestop will need to establish exclusive deals with Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft and game developing studios where they are the only licensed distributor for their official merch (leaving 3rd party licenses for other vendors). It also wouldn't be a bad idea to combat those sketchy Software Key vendors by becoming the official store to purchase digital keys outside of steam, Gog and the Epic store (again that would require direct deals with studio's and console makers). Other than that, THEY ARE DOOMED.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Pushing the price down in the short run can cause the company to fail, so there will be no long run.

Pushing the price down does not cause any appreciable harm to the company beyond making it ripe for a takeover. The only way a company is harmed by a low share price is that it makes options less attractive to key employees.

Management very much does not want a low share price but that's because it's a risk to the managers--the shareholders are likely to vote them out--not because it's a threat to the company.