Adam Toledo video released

[none]

I'm pretty sure this makes it clear what happened. This is a reaction time issue:

He dropped the gun and raised his hands--but too late. The cop had already made the shoot decision, .8 seconds is not enough time to present new information (the empty hands) to change his mind. Fuck around with a gun with the cops, expect to be shot.

What's the deal with ordering someone to drop their weapon but not giving them time to do so?

meh, just like the evading arrest issue...he was ordered to show his hands not disarm...but they were chasing a child who didn't have a weapon

 

[barbos]

I'm pretty sure this makes it clear what happened. This is a reaction time issue:

He dropped the gun and raised his hands--but too late. The cop had already made the shoot decision, .8 seconds is not enough time to present new information (the empty hands) to change his mind. Fuck around with a gun with the cops, expect to be shot.

What's the deal with ordering someone to drop their weapon but not giving them time to do so?

meh, just like the evading arrest issue...he was ordered to show his hands not disarm...but they were chasing a child who didn't have a weapon

What do you mean he did not have a weapon?
Video clearly shows him throwing a gun just before being shot.
Apparently older boy handed him a gun so he can't be caught with it. I think older boy should be prosecuted with murder or something. There should be harsh punishment for involving 13 year olds with crime.

 

[barbos]

I'm pretty sure this makes it clear what happened. This is a reaction time issue:

He dropped the gun and raised his hands--but too late. The cop had already made the shoot decision, .8 seconds is not enough time to present new information (the empty hands) to change his mind. Fuck around with a gun with the cops, expect to be shot.

He turned around and raised his hands too quickly. Gangs should train their prospective members better. If you decided to surrender, do it in such a way that cop does not mistake your movements for trying to shoot him.

 

[Derec]

meh, just like the evading arrest issue...he was ordered to show his hands not disarm...but they were chasing a child who didn't have a weapon

He definitely did have a weapon until 0.8s before he was shot. And he decided to toss it instead of just dropping it.

 

[barbos]

meh, just like the evading arrest issue...he was ordered to show his hands not disarm...but they were chasing a child who didn't have a weapon

He definitely did have a weapon until 0.8s before he was shot. And he decided to toss it instead of just dropping it.

He tossed hoping policeman would not see it, he succeeded (did not see him tossing it out) and he got shot because of it.

 

[Swammerdami]

Apparently older boy handed him a gun so he can't be caught with it. I think older boy should be prosecuted with murder or something. There should be harsh punishment for involving 13 year olds with crime.

I thought I read that Toledo had gunshot residue on his hand. So, did he also fire the gun?

Agree on harsh punishment for the adult thug whose actions led to Toledo's death.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Apparently older boy handed him a gun so he can't be caught with it. I think older boy should be prosecuted with murder or something. There should be harsh punishment for involving 13 year olds with crime.

I thought I read that Toledo had gunshot residue on his hand. So, did he also fire the gun?

Agree on harsh punishment for the adult thug whose actions led to Toledo's death.

He did have residue on his hand from firing the weapon. But that’s neither here nor there for the unfortunate scenario that played out. I don’t think the cop knew at the time of the incident.

In the end, he was a scared kid who was too quick in his movements in complying with the officer’s demands and sadly, the officer likely did not know he was dealing with a thirteen year old and the kid’s quick movements in the dark had the officer react.

0.8 seconds. A decision had to be made that could mean their life or your’s, officer.

 

[barbos]

Apparently older boy handed him a gun so he can't be caught with it. I think older boy should be prosecuted with murder or something. There should be harsh punishment for involving 13 year olds with crime.

I thought I read that Toledo had gunshot residue on his hand. So, did he also fire the gun?

More than likely they both fired the gun. But the fact that 13 year old ended up with it is no accident.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm pretty sure this makes it clear what happened. This is a reaction time issue:

He dropped the gun and raised his hands--but too late. The cop had already made the shoot decision, .8 seconds is not enough time to present new information (the empty hands) to change his mind. Fuck around with a gun with the cops, expect to be shot.

What's the deal with ordering someone to drop their weapon but not giving them time to do so?

meh, just like the evading arrest issue...he was ordered to show his hands not disarm...but they were chasing a child who didn't have a weapon

Reality check: He did have a weapon! He dropped it at the very end, but too late.

 

[none]

meh, just like the evading arrest issue...he was ordered to show his hands not disarm...but they were chasing a child who didn't have a weapon

Reality check: He did have a weapon! He dropped it at the very end, but too late.

oh my.
they didn't shoot him when he had a weapon.
if it was inconsequential that he didn't have a weapon can you explain why they waited to shoot him?
lol

 

[Derec]

This is what happened two days ago in the same neighborhood, Little Village. Same thing as what Adam Toledo and Ruben Roman were doing, i.e. shooting at a car. Except in this case a 17 year old girl is dead.
I would not be surprised in the perps in this case turn out to be Latin Kings bangers as well.

17-year-old girl shot to death Thursday in Little Village

 

[barbos]

This is what happened two days ago in the same neighborhood, Little Village. Same thing as what Adam Toledo and Ruben Roman were doing, i.e. shooting at a car. Except in this case a 17 year old girl is dead.
I would not be surprised in the perps in this case turn out to be Latin Kings bangers as well.

17-year-old girl shot to death Thursday in Little Village

Nothing to see here, she was not killed by the police.

 

[Toni]

This is what happened two days ago in the same neighborhood, Little Village. Same thing as what Adam Toledo and Ruben Roman were doing, i.e. shooting at a car. Except in this case a 17 year old girl is dead.
I would not be surprised in the perps in this case turn out to be Latin Kings bangers as well.

17-year-old girl shot to death Thursday in Little Village

Nothing to see here, she was not killed by the police.

Police are supposed to serve and protect citizens. They act on behalf of citizens, with authority given to them by citizens. We empower them to carry firearms and these days, military grade weaponry as would be used in combat with foreign enemies, only this weaponry is used upon the very citizens who pay the salaries and who are represented by the police. So when they kill unarmed children who are complying with the orders of police officers, it is particularly repugnant and despicable.

There are multiple ways of looking at the death of Adam Toledo but one thing is certain: It certainly did nothing to prevent the death of another child, now, did it? And isn't that what police are supposed to do? Protect and serve?

 

[barbos]

Toni, Adam Toledo was:
1. Armed
2. There was no way for police to know he was a child.

 

[zorq]

Toni, Adam Toledo was:
1. Armed
2. There was no way for police to know he was a child.

There is no way for the police to know if a suspect is autisic, or deaf, or epileptic, or has tourette syndrom, or thinking he is running away from a scary gangbanger with a gun either. Any of those things might cause (and have caused) unnecessary violence on the part of the Police because Police always seem to act like they are dealing with rational and fully functional adult. But that is a problem. Police should be trained to understand that not every suspect is capable of complying with instructions instantly. In this case, the police officer was so poorly trained, the suspect DID comply with instructions instantly and was still shot dead for it.

But no... people in this thread insist that we can't actually put any blame on the officer. He was in a difficult situation, right?

No. The officer chose this situation by giving the instructions he did. The whole situation was of his making, not just the decision to pull the trigger. If he was trained to put suspects into situations like this then it isn't just his fault the child died. It is the whole system's fault.

 

[lpetrich]

AJ+ on Twitter: "Chicago is releasing bodycam video of the police killing of #AdamToledo, who was a 13-year-old boy.

Police claim there was an "armed confrontation" and shot him in the chest. The mayor says she saw "no evidence whatsoever" that Toledo shot at police.

(Photo: Elizabeth Toledo) (link)" / Twitter

AJ+ on Twitter: "UPDATE: Chicago has released bodycam video of the police killing of 13-year-old #AdamToledo:

The video shows Adam had his hands up when police opened fire, killing him.
Cook County now says prosecutor made an error when they said Adam was holding a gun. (link)" / Twitter

Then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "The prosecutor did not “make an error.” He lied.

He lied about the police killing a child.

Ending this isn’t just about consequences for who pulls the trigger. It’s about admitting to and confronting an entire system that exists to protect, defend, and cover up state violence." / Twitter
Lied? That's a strong claim.

The Vast Majority of U.K. Police Don't Carry Guns. Here's Why.

And yet more than 90 percent of the capital's police officers carry out their daily duties without a gun. Most rely on other tools to keep their city safe: canisters of mace, handcuffs, batons and occasionally stun-guns.

This is no accident.

...
The Metropolitan Police carried out some 3,300 deployments involving firearms in 2016. They didn't fire a single shot at a suspect.

It's a world away from the United States, where cops killed 1,092 people in 2016, according to figures compiled by The Guardian.

 

[none]

...
Lied? That's a strong claim.
...

wtf? no picture? no quote? just some random commentary?

 

[barbos]

Toni, Adam Toledo was:
1. Armed
2. There was no way for police to know he was a child.

There is no way for the police to know if a suspect is autisic, or deaf, or epileptic, or has tourette syndrom, or thinking he is running away from a scary gangbanger with a gun either. Any of those things might cause (and have caused) unnecessary violence on the part of the Police because Police always seem to act like they are dealing with rational and fully functional adult. But that is a problem. Police should be trained to understand that not every suspect is capable of complying with instructions instantly. In this case, the police officer was so poorly trained, the suspect DID comply with instructions instantly and was still shot dead for it.

But no... people in this thread insist that we can't actually put any blame on the officer. He was in a difficult situation, right?

No. The officer chose this situation by giving the instructions he did. The whole situation was of his making, not just the decision to pull the trigger. If he was trained to put suspects into situations like this then it isn't just his fault the child died. It is the whole system's fault.

You put forward unattainable requirements for the police. They are not robots with perfect vision and unlimited CPU speed.
13 year old who just fired at random car at 2AM tried to evade the police and get rid of the gun. I say give life sentence to 21 year old and be done with it.

 

[zorq]

Toni, Adam Toledo was:
1. Armed
2. There was no way for police to know he was a child.

There is no way for the police to know if a suspect is autisic, or deaf, or epileptic, or has tourette syndrom, or thinking he is running away from a scary gangbanger with a gun either. Any of those things might cause (and have caused) unnecessary violence on the part of the Police because Police always seem to act like they are dealing with rational and fully functional adult. But that is a problem. Police should be trained to understand that not every suspect is capable of complying with instructions instantly. In this case, the police officer was so poorly trained, the suspect DID comply with instructions instantly and was still shot dead for it.

But no... people in this thread insist that we can't actually put any blame on the officer. He was in a difficult situation, right?

No. The officer chose this situation by giving the instructions he did. The whole situation was of his making, not just the decision to pull the trigger. If he was trained to put suspects into situations like this then it isn't just his fault the child died. It is the whole system's fault.

You put forward unattainable requirements for the police. They are not robots with perfect vision and unlimited CPU speed.
13 year old who just fired at random car at 2AM tried to evade the police and get rid of the gun. I say give life sentence to 21 year old and be done with it.

Can you name the unattainable requirement you divined from my post? I dare you.

You want to simplify the whole situation to one sentence comprised of 22 words. It's easier to think about it that way, but it's lazy, and nuance is lost. This kind of laziness is also what guarantees that tragic outcomes like this will continue.

 

[barbos]

You put forward unattainable requirements for the police. They are not robots with perfect vision and unlimited CPU speed.
13 year old who just fired at random car at 2AM tried to evade the police and get rid of the gun. I say give life sentence to 21 year old and be done with it.

Can you name the unattainable requirement you divined from my post? I dare you.

You want to simplify the whole situation to one sentence comprised of 22 words. It's easier to think about it that way, but it's lazy, and nuance is lost. This kind of laziness is also what guarantees that tragic outcomes like this will continue.

the suspect DID comply with instructions instantly and was still shot dead for it.

The suspect absolutely did NOT comply with instructions immediately. First, he tried to flee, second, instead of dropping the gun he tried to get rid of it.