No, Rashida Tlaib. Somebody being criticized for making idiotic statements is not violation of freedom of speech!

[Derec]

The retard is the blind mindless supporter of decades of Israeli crimes and theft.

Yeah, we know you irrationally hate Israel. And by the way, you are wrong. Those supporting Palestinian terrorism are the moral retards.

 

[ZiprHead]

There are no not-civilian areas in Palestinian territories.

Of course there are non-civilian areas. What are you babbling about?

Hamas is allowed to have military bases?

 

[Derec]

Hamas is allowed to have military bases?

Allowed by whom? Israel withdrew in 2005. Hamas has been running Gaza since the brief civil warlet with Fatah in 2006.

They may not have classic, centralized military bases (they would be an easy target next time Hamas decides to shoot rockets at Israeli civilians) but they have plenty of military infrastructure - training compounds, weapons manufacturing sites, 100s of miles of tunnels, observation posts, command and control sites, etc.

 

[ZiprHead]

Hamas is allowed to have military bases?

Allowed by whom? Israel withdrew in 2005. Hamas has been running Gaza since the brief civil warlet with Fatah in 2006.

They may not have classic, centralized military bases (they would be an easy target next time Hamas decides to shoot rockets at Israeli civilians) but they have plenty of military infrastructure - training compounds, weapons manufacturing sites, 100s of miles of tunnels, observation posts, command and control sites, etc.

All clandestine in civilian areas.

 

[Derec]

All clandestine in civilian areas.

But they don't have to be. Even Gaza has wide open spaces not inhabited by civilians. Hamas doesn't have to put their rocket launchers next to a school or iron dome jammers in a media building.

By the way, using civilian areas in this way is a war crime. As is shooting rockets at Israeli civilians.

On the other hand, Israel defending itself and targeting Hamas is not a war crime.

As you can clearly see, the two sides are not at all analogous any more than US and Taliban are analogous.
No matter Ilhan Omar's idiotic tweets.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I saw the comment that prompted this. She said both the Israeli government and Hamas should be held accountable for their war crimes.

Hamas is committing war crimes by shooting rockets at civilians from civilian areas, and doing things like digging offensive tunnels under UN schools. Israel is targeting Hamas fighters and infrastructure, which is legal conduct in war.

There are no not-civilian areas in Palestinian territories.

You've got it ass-backwards.

What matters is military areas. You're making the erroneous assumption that civilian areas are not military areas, but that's not how it works with terrorist armies. Hamas deliberately puts military facilities in and under civilian facilities so Israel will bomb them and they can use it for propaganda purposes.

 

[ZiprHead]

All clandestine in civilian areas.

But they don't have to be. Even Gaza has wide open spaces not inhabited by civilians. Hamas doesn't have to put their rocket launchers next to a school or iron dome jammers in a media building.

By the way, using civilian areas in this way is a war crime. As is shooting rockets at Israeli civilians.

On the other hand, Israel defending itself and targeting Hamas is not a war crime.

As you can clearly see, the two sides are not at all analogous any more than US and Taliban are analogous.
No matter Ilhan Omar's idiotic tweets.

So if Hamas started setting up military installations (in wide open spaces) for training, stockpiling weaponry, and communications, Israel would leave them alone if they didn't fire rockets? Should I be prepared for a hearty chuckle?

 

[Derec]

So if Hamas started setting up military installations (in wide open spaces) for training, stockpiling weaponry, and communications, Israel would leave them alone if they didn't fire rockets? Should I be prepared for a hearty chuckle?

You may chuckle, but Hamas aim is to destroy Israel, so of course not. If they were willing to live side by side with Israel, then Israel would leave them alone, of course.
Note that their military bases likely being destroyed in any military conflict does not excuse them committing war crimes by hiding among the civilian population.

 

[ZiprHead]

So if Hamas started setting up military installations (in wide open spaces) for training, stockpiling weaponry, and communications, Israel would leave them alone if they didn't fire rockets? Should I be prepared for a hearty chuckle?

You may chuckle, but Hamas aim is to destroy Israel, so of course not. If they were willing to live side by side with Israel, then Israel would leave them alone, of course.
Note that their military bases likely being destroyed in any military conflict does not excuse them committing war crimes by hiding among the civilian population.

Guerilla warfare tactics have long been used against invading forces, hiding amongst the civilian population. It's what defenders do after being conquered.

Yeah yeah, Hamas wants to destroy Israel, blah blah. Israel wants to do the same to Hamas and the Palestinians. They're just being more stealthy about it, slowly and continuously stealing Palestinian lands.

 

[Arctish]

If they were willing to live side by side with Israel, then Israel would leave them alone, of course.

Side by side, as in Palestinians returning to their former homes and villages inside Israel and being fully integrated into Israeli society, or at least being compensated for their lost property and allowed to live where they please?

I think nearly every Palestinian would be willing to give that a try if they had assurances Israel won't make them stateless again on a whim. So what is Israel offering here?

 

[untermensche]

The Palestinians are desperately trying to defend themselves from an incredibly powerful nation.

A nation taking their homes and killing anyone who resists.

Putting your military around civilians only works when you deal with a moral enemy.

The Palestinians know who they are dealing with.

They wouldn't do it.

Reports that they are doing it is Israeli propaganda.

 

[lpetrich]

Derec, the Hamas guys could make the exact same human-shield argument about Israel. They could argue that Israel's leaders are hiding their soldiers among civilians, and that the Israel Defense Force's headquarters is in a civilian area.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So if Hamas started setting up military installations (in wide open spaces) for training, stockpiling weaponry, and communications, Israel would leave them alone if they didn't fire rockets? Should I be prepared for a hearty chuckle?

You may chuckle, but Hamas aim is to destroy Israel, so of course not. If they were willing to live side by side with Israel, then Israel would leave them alone, of course.
Note that their military bases likely being destroyed in any military conflict does not excuse them committing war crimes by hiding among the civilian population.

Guerilla warfare tactics have long been used against invading forces, hiding amongst the civilian population. It's what defenders do after being conquered.

Yeah yeah, Hamas wants to destroy Israel, blah blah. Israel wants to do the same to Hamas and the Palestinians. They're just being more stealthy about it, slowly and continuously stealing Palestinian lands.

Hide amongst is not the same thing as attack from.

Guerilla forces can hide in civilian populations, but launching attacks from such positions is not acceptable.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If they were willing to live side by side with Israel, then Israel would leave them alone, of course.

Side by side, as in Palestinians returning to their former homes and villages inside Israel and being fully integrated into Israeli society, or at least being compensated for their lost property and allowed to live where they please?

I think nearly every Palestinian would be willing to give that a try if they had assurances Israel won't make them stateless again on a whim. So what is Israel offering here?

1) This would be completely unacceptable to the Palestinians. They have been brainwashed for a generation about ethnically cleansing.

2) Why should Israel compensate the Palestinians when nobody has compensated all the Jews that fled Muslim lands? I do favor compensation--but it needs to be bilateral.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Derec, the Hamas guys could make the exact same human-shield argument about Israel. They could argue that Israel's leaders are hiding their soldiers among civilians, and that the Israel Defense Force's headquarters is in a civilian area.

Nobody's shooting at either, it doesn't matter where they are.

 

[Derec]

Derec, the Hamas guys could make the exact same human-shield argument about Israel.

No, they couldn't. Enough of this false equivalence!
Hamas does not seek to minimize Israeli civilian casualties. They seek to maximize them. That's why, when they had more of an access to Israel and could use "guided missiles" (aka suicide bombers), they preferred targets where civilians congregate like school/city buses and restaurants.


Hiding your military among civilians only works when your enemy seeks to minimize civilian casualties. Like IDF. The IDF has called off many strikes because there were too many civilians around.
Of course, no military is perfect. But then again, no military engaged in counterterrorism activities is judged by a standard IDF is always judged.

They could argue that Israel's leaders are hiding their soldiers among civilians

No they couldn't, and again, their goal is to kill as many Jews, preferably civilians, as possible.

You can hear it right from horse's ass, uhm I mean mouth:


So, spare me the false equivalence.

 

[lpetrich]

Derec, the Hamas guys could make the exact same human-shield argument about Israel.

No, they couldn't. Enough of this false equivalence!

 Reserve duty (Israel)

In reserve duty (or reserve service; Hebrew: שירות מילואים‎, Sherut Milu'im), Israeli residents who have completed military service are assigned to the Israel Defense Forces' military reserve force to provide reinforcements during emergencies (war, military operations or natural disasters), and as a matter of routine course (e.g. for training, ongoing security and other activities). Some reservists are assigned to the same units they served in during their regular military service, and some are assigned to dedicated reserve units.

The Hamas guys could point to that as "proof" that the civilians that they attack are not Real Civilians.

 

[Derec]

Side by side, as in Palestinians returning to their former homes and villages inside Israel and being fully integrated into Israeli society,

Side by side, in different countries. What you are proposing here would be a demographic suicide for Israel as Arab Muslims have had and still have much higher birth rates.

or at least being compensated for their lost property and allowed to live where they please?

And so should all the Jews who left what may become State of Palestine as well as Jews who had to leave other Arab counties, and not just 73 years ago, but even recently.
Some of Yemen’s last remaining Jews said expelled by Iran-backed Houthis
Or do you propose this compensation to be a one-way street?

I think nearly every Palestinian would be willing to give that a try if they had assurances Israel won't make them stateless again on a whim. So what is Israel offering here?

Israel has offered Palestinian Arabs a state for a long time. Last time one was offered, Yasser "Miserable Cunt" Arafat refused and launched a series of terrorist attacks dubbed "Second Intifada". The talks haven't progressed that far since due to Palestinian insistence on non-negotiables like the so-called "right of return" for millions of Arabs whose ancestors lived in what became Israel between 1946 and 1948 (which is the official definition of "Palestinian refugee").

 

[Derec]

The Hamas guys could point to that as "proof" that the civilians that they attack are not Real Civilians.

Hamas guys say a lot of bullshit when the day is long. Why should we listen to anything these islamofascist terrorists say?

By the way, the "Squad" (aka "Hamas Caucus") surely think of themselves as feminists.

Gaza reporter says she was beaten for not wearing headscarf

That's your "Hamas guys" for you. Or this oldie but goodie:
Hamas bans women on motorcycles in Gaza Strip

 

[Derec]

Guerilla warfare tactics have long been used against invading forces,

Israel withdrew forces and settlers from Gaza in 2005. The last time they invaded it was 2014 and only in reaction to armed (and illegal) aggression from Gaza against Israel.

Hamas is the aggressor here. Without them attacking Israel all the time, Gaza would be left alone by Israel.
In 2005 Gaza could have become a prosperous and peaceful state by the Mediterranean. Instead, they chose terrorism. They chose Hamas. Choices have consequences.

hiding amongst the civilian population. It's what defenders do after being conquered.

Again, Israel withdrew in 2005. Hamas ain't defending shit.

Yeah yeah, Hamas wants to destroy Israel, blah blah.

That's not blah blah. Hamas are terrorists with genocidal intent. And as islamofascists, they are horrible to their own people as well. Particularly women and gays.
Pride and Prejudice: The Hellish Life of Gaza’s LGBTQ Community

Israel wants to do the same to Hamas and the Palestinians.

Hamas yes, Palestinians, no. But Hamas needs destroying. Just like NSDAP needed destroying.

They're just being more stealthy about it, slowly and continuously stealing Palestinian lands.

On the contrary, Israel has always been giving land for peace. Except, in 2005 the Palestinians kept the land, but refused to give peace. So why keep trying? Nobody wants Gaza-like West Bank!