RussiaGate

[barbos]

Again, can you really blame him? US has been meddling in Russian elections since forever.
Also, as usual, there is no reason to believe anything British (or any) intelligence say.

Nonsense. Putin shoehorned himself into power on New Years Eve in 2000 by dislodging Yeltsin, a former local Party boss who was a corrupt drunk. Ever since then, Putin has schemed to keep himself in power and has now made himself essentially "president" for life. The presidential election in Russia is almost as much of a joke as it is in Belarus, just not as blatantly obviously a joke. It would make no sense for the US to meddle in Russian elections, because those elections have little to zero chance of determining who holds power in Russia these days. Criticism is not the same as meddling, and a massive campaign to use social media to promote disinformation and fake news in an effort to manipulate public opinion in the US is not the same as criticism. That is a hostile attack on our country, not even close to the scale of what you think of as US "meddling" in Russian politics. Now we are afflicted with very serious ransomware attacks on US infrastructure that are directed from Russian soil with the apparent blessing, perhaps even direction, of the Russian government. Can we blame Putin? Hell, yes. We're not stupid.

Bullshit as usual. Eltsin was reelected despite being hopelessly behind Zjuganov (commie) with the help of US advisers and oligarch money. Some say he actually lost mathematically but US was OK with that fraud which they themselves helped perpetrate. Same with Putin, US was more than OK with him becoming a heir.

US stopped being OK with Putin when Russia became better economically (thanks to oil prices) and started to buy new weapons. At that point neocons and military-industrial complex realized that they have a chance to feel important again.

 

[Swammerdami]

@ barbos — Is Russian your first language? Have you looked at the documents? (There's a photo in the Guardian article.) Does the language look idiomatic? (One news-site says No.)

... And troubles are largely attributed to your fucking sanctions, not to the mismanagement. You imposed sanctions because you decided Putin must go, direct meddling in political process. And now you act outraged when Putin decided to respond in kind.
Hello, what are you smoking?

For most Americans, the issue is NOT 'Which side is fighting dirtier?', but 'How do we protect ourselves?'

 

[barbos]

@ barbos — Is Russian your first language? Have you looked at the documents? (There's a photo in the Guardian article.) Does the language look idiomatic? (One news-site says No.)

You mean some say it could have been made in MI6 HQ?
Looks normal to me, all of these people in Russia speak english and it shows in their russian. So lots of english words and absence of russian idioms is not surprising. So I see nothing weird.

... And troubles are largely attributed to your fucking sanctions, not to the mismanagement. You imposed sanctions because you decided Putin must go, direct meddling in political process. And now you act outraged when Putin decided to respond in kind.
Hello, what are you smoking?

For most Americans, the issue is NOT 'Which side is fighting dirtier?', but 'How do we protect ourselves?'

And the answer should be "By not harassing needlessly a country with nukes"

 

[lpetrich]

There is a brief psychological assessment of Trump, who is described as an “impulsive, mentally unstable and unbalanced individual who suffers from an inferiority complex”.

Given that he often shows all the emotional maturity of a toddler, that is not surprising.

That document also claims that Russian intelligence services have "kompromat" (compromising material) on him, though they did not expand further.


Returning to Trump's personality, I once started a thread on that: Presidents on the Couch - their personalities

Trump seems very low on the Big Five personality trait of conscientiousness: industriousness, orderliness, and the like. Most other presidents have been high in it, and some other notable politicians also seem high in it, like Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnell, and AOC.

 

[Swammerdami]

You mean some say it could have been made in MI6 HQ?
Looks normal to me, all of these people in Russia speak english and it shows in their russian. So lots of english words and absence of russian idioms is not surprising. So I see nothing weird.

For most Americans, the issue is NOT 'Which side is fighting dirtier?', but 'How do we protect ourselves?'

And the answer should be "By not harassing needlessly a country with nukes"

I conceded that the USA might also be fighting dirty, and you respond with this? As though Putin's Russia is an innocent aggrieved nation which does no mischief except to answer others' mischief?

And you even mention nukes? Is that a threat?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Again, can you really blame him? US has been meddling in Russian elections since forever.

They have? When was the last time the US meddled in a Russian election? The US meddles all over the place, but Russia? Russia can barely be said to be a democracy in the first place!

Also, as usual, there is no reason to believe anything British (or any) intelligence say.

I'm hesitant to just believe it myself... that the documents were leaked or exist, but there was coordination with hackers and Wikileaks and we know that the Trump campaign coordinated with sources compatible with Putin's interests. These are are all facts.

 

[barbos]

You mean some say it could have been made in MI6 HQ?
Looks normal to me, all of these people in Russia speak english and it shows in their russian. So lots of english words and absence of russian idioms is not surprising. So I see nothing weird.

For most Americans, the issue is NOT 'Which side is fighting dirtier?', but 'How do we protect ourselves?'

And the answer should be "By not harassing needlessly a country with nukes"

I conceded that the USA might also be fighting dirty, and you respond with this? As though Putin's Russia is an innocent aggrieved nation which does no mischief except to answer others' mischief?

US started it.

And you even mention nukes? Is that a threat?

A warning. But then they harass Russia because of nukes in the first place. So it's really hopeless. Russia is guilty of existing.

 

[barbos]

Again, can you really blame him? US has been meddling in Russian elections since forever.

They have? When was the last time the US meddled in a Russian election? The US meddles all over the place, but Russia? Russia can barely be said to be a democracy in the first place!

Well, supporting protests and color revolutions. Buying countries and dictators around Russia and ordering them to hate Russia. It's been continuing problem.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Again, can you really blame him? US has been meddling in Russian elections since forever.

They have? When was the last time the US meddled in a Russian election? The US meddles all over the place, but Russia? Russia can barely be said to be a democracy in the first place!

Well, supporting protests and color revolutions. Buying countries and dictators around Russia and ordering them to hate Russia. It's been continuing problem.

Sure, but that isn't meddling in a Russian election. And maybe if Russia was a higher functioning democracy, the external meddling would be much lower.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Well, supporting protests and color revolutions. Buying countries and dictators around Russia and ordering them to hate Russia. It's been continuing problem.

Oh, please. We don't buy people and order them to hate Russia. Then Russia could just outbid us. And if he loses power, we have to start all over again.

We find people that already hate Russia and give them a budget. They'll stay on target much better, plus they tend to surround themselves with subordinates that also hate Russia. Much longer lasting, too.

So, don't come the victim, here. it's Russia's fault these people exist, it's just our fault they have guns.

 

[ZiprHead]

I conceded that the USA might also be fighting dirty, and you respond with this? As though Putin's Russia is an innocent aggrieved nation which does no mischief except to answer others' mischief?

US started it.

Did the Kremlin tell you that?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Is there a Russian equivalent to Moose and Squirrel?

 

[ZiprHead]

Is there a Russian equivalent to Moose and Squirrel?

Bear and weasel?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Is there a Russian equivalent to Moose and Squirrel?

Literally Boris and Natasha

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Is there a Russian equivalent to Moose and Squirrel?

Literally Boris and Natasha

What I mean is does a cartoon of the same type exist on Russian TV? I never realized the propaganda/brainwashing content of the show until I was older. I don't watch cartoons anymore so wouldn't know if there is an equivalent today. But as I kid I watched it regularly not knowing how propagandizing it was.

 

[barbos]

Well, supporting protests and color revolutions. Buying countries and dictators around Russia and ordering them to hate Russia. It's been continuing problem.

Sure, but that isn't meddling in a Russian election.

How is that not meddling in election when you literally fund russian opposition?

And maybe if Russia was a higher functioning democracy, the external meddling would be much lower.

That's ironic thing to say, considering what is going on in US now, don't credit Russia for that.

 

[barbos]

I conceded that the USA might also be fighting dirty, and you respond with this? As though Putin's Russia is an innocent aggrieved nation which does no mischief except to answer others' mischief?

US started it.

Did the Kremlin tell you that?

No, US White House told me that.

 

[barbos]

Well, supporting protests and color revolutions. Buying countries and dictators around Russia and ordering them to hate Russia. It's been continuing problem.

Oh, please. We don't buy people and order them to hate Russia. Then Russia could just outbid us. And if he loses power, we have to start all over again.

We find people that already hate Russia and give them a budget. They'll stay on target much better, plus they tend to surround themselves with subordinates that also hate Russia. Much longer lasting, too.

That's what I meant. You give them budget, they win elections and suddenly all country hates Russians, initially in the press only, then with time population in general starts hating too. It's very cheap.
Russia is much worse at that historically.

So, don't come the victim, here. it's Russia's fault these people exist, it's just our fault they have guns.

It's democrat's fault trumpers exist, right?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Again, can you really blame him? US has been meddling in Russian elections since forever.
Also, as usual, there is no reason to believe anything British (or any) intelligence say.

Russian "elections"???

 

[Keith&Co.]

That's what I meant. You give them budget, they win elections and suddenly all country hates Russians, initially in the press only, then with time population in general starts hating too.

No. As i pointed out, we find people that ALREADY hate Russia. They're all over the place. With them in power, the rest of the people are free to express the feelings they already have. It's very cheap EXACTLY because we don't have to brainwash anyone, just give them control of the microphones.

So, don't come the victim, here. it's Russia's fault these people exist, it's just our fault they have guns.

It's democrat's fault trumpers exist, right?

To a large degree, yes.
Or did you think you had a 'gotcha' there?