Returning to an old topic--Gaza and the vaccine

[Loren Pechtel]

We have even more evidence that the flap about the expiration dates was garbage:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/23/reluctance-and-distrust-defome-vaccine-attitudes-in-gaza

They've got a vaccination rate below 5% because the people won't take it. They're out of arms, not out of vaccine.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Maybe they watch too much Fox News.

 

[TomC]

Maybe they watch too much Fox News.

Or, maybe, Gazan news sources are about as reliable as Fox?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I find it interesting that LP wishes to draw attention to a forgotten minor event. But the OP mixes two distinct issues - expiration dates of vaccines with willingness to have a vaccine.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I find it interesting that LP wishes to draw attention to a forgotten minor event. But the OP mixes two distinct issues - expiration dates of vaccines with willingness to have a vaccine.

The point is if they needed it for their people the dates wouldn't have mattered.

However, if the true plan had been to pull a Saddam and sell it...

 

[laughing dog]

I find it interesting that LP wishes to draw attention to a forgotten minor event. But the OP mixes two distinct issues - expiration dates of vaccines with willingness to have a vaccine.

The point is if they needed it for their people the dates wouldn't have mattered.

Except they do need it for their people, so the dates matter for those who want it.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Maybe they watch too much Fox News.

Or, maybe, Gazan news sources are about as reliable as Fox?
Tom

0/0 is mathematically undefined.

 

[TomC]

I find it interesting that LP wishes to draw attention to a forgotten minor event. But the OP mixes two distinct issues - expiration dates of vaccines with willingness to have a vaccine.

The point is if they needed it for their people the dates wouldn't have mattered.

Except they do need it for their people, so the dates matter for those who want it.

This brings up a question I don't know how to even research.

Given that the vaccine's expiration is measured in hours, after removing from super deep freeze, that's got to have a huge impact on availability in areas were simple things like electricity can't be taken for granted.

That's much of the modern world, from Gaza to rural India to small villages in Africa or South America. Lots of places just don't have the infrastructure to reliably keep the delicate vaccine viable.
That seems like a huge problem to me, but one I never hear addressed.


On a side note, does anybody have a simple answer about why this is? I've never heard of the problem with other vaccines, but it also never occurred to me to wonder.
Tom

 

[Harry Bosch]

Except they do need it for their people, so the dates matter for those who want it.

This brings up a question I don't know how to even research.

Given that the vaccine's expiration is measured in hours, after removing from super deep freeze, that's got to have a huge impact on availability in areas were simple things like electricity can't be taken for granted.

That's much of the modern world, from Gaza to rural India to small villages in Africa or South America. Lots of places just don't have the infrastructure to reliably keep the delicate vaccine viable.
That seems like a huge problem to me, but one I never hear addressed.


On a side note, does anybody have a simple answer about why this is? I've never heard of the problem with other vaccines, but it also never occurred to me to wonder.
Tom

The X-117M micro-chip in the vaccine must be stored in cold and can only last 12 hours once exposed to air. CIA needs to up their game here IMO.

 

[laughing dog]

Except they do need it for their people, so the dates matter for those who want it.

This brings up a question I don't know how to even research.

Given that the vaccine's expiration is measured in hours, after removing from super deep freeze, that's got to have a huge impact on availability in areas were simple things like electricity can't be taken for granted.

That's much of the modern world, from Gaza to rural India to small villages in Africa or South America. Lots of places just don't have the infrastructure to reliably keep the delicate vaccine viable.
That seems like a huge problem to me, but one I never hear addressed.


On a side note, does anybody have a simple answer about why this is? I've never heard of the problem with other vaccines, but it also never occurred to me to wonder.
Tom

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines use mRNA which is extremely fragile. These vaccines work by “ teaching” the body’s defense system to make a protein which will combat yhe covid virus.

Traditional vaccines use some of the disease to activate the bodies defense system. These are not as fragile.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I find it interesting that LP wishes to draw attention to a forgotten minor event. But the OP mixes two distinct issues - expiration dates of vaccines with willingness to have a vaccine.

The point is if they needed it for their people the dates wouldn't have mattered.

Except they do need it for their people, so the dates matter for those who want it.

Need it for what? They already have more shots than arms.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Except they do need it for their people, so the dates matter for those who want it.

This brings up a question I don't know how to even research.

Given that the vaccine's expiration is measured in hours, after removing from super deep freeze, that's got to have a huge impact on availability in areas were simple things like electricity can't be taken for granted.

That's much of the modern world, from Gaza to rural India to small villages in Africa or South America. Lots of places just don't have the infrastructure to reliably keep the delicate vaccine viable.
That seems like a huge problem to me, but one I never hear addressed.


On a side note, does anybody have a simple answer about why this is? I've never heard of the problem with other vaccines, but it also never occurred to me to wonder.
Tom

It is not unusual for vaccines to have fairly strict storage requirements. It's just Pfizer's approach requires colder storage than most.

It's not actually that big a deal: Pfizer has two clocks. The deep freeze one was (it has been increased) 5 days, not hours. (I got one of those waste shots--announced about 20 hours before I got it.) For that duration it is no harder to store than many other vaccines. The clock with hours on it is once it has been mixed. Thus you need central facilities that can meet the super-cold requirement, but outlying facilities only need ordinary storage. For a place as small as Gaza one super-cold facility is fine--and note that it can also be provided by liquid nitrogen, it doesn't even need reliable power.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines use mRNA which is extremely fragile. These vaccines work by “ teaching” the body’s defense system to make a protein which will combat yhe covid virus.

Traditional vaccines use some of the disease to activate the bodies defense system. These are not as fragile.

And note that natural mRNA also has a pretty short lifespan. It's a message from the nucleus to the rest of the cell to make this--you don't want such orders to stick around too long. Pfizer and Moderna basically slip fake orders into the cell's production machinery.

 

[laughing dog]

Except they do need it for their people, so the dates matter for those who want it.

Need it for what? They already have more shots than arms.

Not if they go bad. And if they have more shots than arms, then the vaccines get exported (unless they go bad).

The point which you seem to be incapable of grasping - the expiration of vaccines is important because these vaccines are lifesaving to someone.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Except they do need it for their people, so the dates matter for those who want it.

Need it for what? They already have more shots than arms.

Not if they go bad. And if they have more shots than arms, then the vaccines get exported (unless they go bad).

The point which you seem to be incapable of grasping - the expiration of vaccines is important because these vaccines are lifesaving to someone.

If they were to be exported then the Palestinians didn't need them.

 

[laughing dog]

Not if they go bad. And if they have more shots than arms, then the vaccines get exported (unless they go bad).

The point which you seem to be incapable of grasping - the expiration of vaccines is important because these vaccines are lifesaving to someone.

If they were to be exported then the Palestinians didn't need them.

The unvaccinated need the vaccines even if they don’t want them, regardless of their nationslity.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not if they go bad. And if they have more shots than arms, then the vaccines get exported (unless they go bad).

The point which you seem to be incapable of grasping - the expiration of vaccines is important because these vaccines are lifesaving to someone.

If they were to be exported then the Palestinians didn't need them.

The unvaccinated need the vaccines even if they don’t want them, regardless of their nationslity.

Which has nothing to do with the issue unless you're advocating for forced vaccination.

 

[laughing dog]

The unvaccinated need the vaccines even if they don’t want them, regardless of their nationslity.

Which has nothing to do with the issue unless you're advocating for forced vaccination.

Wrong again. People change their minds, and vaccines can be sent to those who need them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The unvaccinated need the vaccines even if they don’t want them, regardless of their nationslity.

Which has nothing to do with the issue unless you're advocating for forced vaccination.

Wrong again. People change their minds, and vaccines can be sent to those who need them.

Want to try that again?

Before you send vaccines you have to convince them to want them, otherwise you're just throwing it away.

 

[laughing dog]

Wrong again. People change their minds, and vaccines can be sent to those who need them.

Want to try that again?

Before you send vaccines you have to convince them to want them, otherwise you're just throwing it away.

There are plenty of places that want the vaccines, so what are you babbling about?