Does Christianity enhance your mental health?

[southernhybrid]

I find the benefits of religion to be far too inconsistent to claim they are from religion.

Most of the studies that show religion as a benefit take care to note that it is the religious community that provides the benefit, not the act of belief or faith. It’s the act of being with other humans in a mutually supportive community.

So if the community of faith is not supportive (like hellfire and brimstone) it does not contribute to positive mental health. And if it is too fractured to be mutual, it does not contribute to positive mental health.

In other words, the god and the doctrine is irrelevant and unuseful. Put another way, no, it does not appear that “Christianity enhances your mental health.” Rather, a regular, communal, supportive group enhances your mental health. The more regular and the more supportive and the more communal, the better - until doctrine poisons it, which Christianity has many built-in mechanisms, unfortunately, to do.

Yes. That is mostly what I meant in my post, but for some people, especially those who have very hard lives, I tend to think that their religious beliefs also bring them some peace of mind. Just because I don't totally understand or need that type of thing, doesn't mean that they don't benefit from their beliefs.

My neighbor has all kinds of nutty woo beliefs, which she seems to think help her cope. She doesn't have any community of friends who share her kooky beliefs, as they are totally unrelated to Christianity, a religion she thinks is nuts. She's not sure if there is a god or gods, but she does believe in supernatural elements.

She knows I'm an atheist and I roll my eyes when she tells me something really kooky, but perhaps her life would be even worse if she didn't believe the nutty paganish things that she does. I can't read the minds of others, so it would be wrong of me to say that her beliefs don't help her deal with her chronic anxiety and depression.

 

[southernhybrid]

Agree with a lot of #15. It's risible when believers (in my experience, many Christians) talk up religion as if, without it, they (or more likely, 'most of us') would be burglars, rapists, and razor murderers, because there'd be nothing to stop them. How's that for an image of basic humanity?

Yes, it is not unheard of, that a lot of individuals who have come out of prison, have changed from their old particular ways, due to their new found faith, while being inside. Or things like reading those headlines like for example "Ex-gang member becomes a pastor, preaching the Gospel on his Harley Davidson..." there's been a few of those I believe.

I have no doubt that sometimes people are positively influenced by their religion beliefs, but at the same time, many of those who invaded the US capital on January 6th were evangelical Christians, who believed that Trump was sent by god. So, it works both ways, doesn't it?

At least two of the worst offenders on Jan. 6th were very devout Christians. Can you accept that their Christian beliefs may have influenced them to do the horrible things they did? If not, then at least admit that their Christian beliefs failed to keep them from committing the violent things that they did on that day?

 

[abaddon]

For some people, it offers hope and purpose, while for others, it causes pain and cognitive dissonance.

And for some, by offering a vain hope it causes pain. They must fully believe in the crazy promises or there's cognitive dissonance.

A friend of mine still grieves her mother's death that happened over a decade ago. She hopes to see her mom again in heaven but wonders if heaven's real, and the doubt adds to the pain of her grief. She could potentially talk happily about her mom, rather than focus on how she might not ever see her mom again, if she'd dealt with the fact of death directly and found ways to honor the memory instead of hoped for something supernatural to magically make everything different than it is.

I side more with the idea that non-avoidance, that facing up, is the more beneficial way to deal with things. It's the fantasy of a better world that makes reality seem more awful than it is, because if we create an imaginary contrast of heaven then the world seems awful by comparison. It's AFTER the fake contrast is made, that people say "if I didn't have my faith then I'd be a wreck!"

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Religion, imo, is just like all made up beliefs or organizations. For some people, it offers hope and purpose, while for others, it causes pain and cognitive dissonance.

As one who grew up in an evangelical home, I can attest that Christianity caused me emotional pain, and cognitive dissonance, eventually leading to my atheism. For others, like a very poor, Black friend of mine, it offers purpose and hope. Sure, it's false hope, but if people never realize that there is no heaven and that a god isn't watching over them and protecting them, I don't see the harm in that.

We all find different ways of maintaining our mental health, but some of us are predisposed to mental illness, anxiety, depression etc. Religion can't change that, but in some cases, having a community where you are supported and loved, can at least lessen the pain acquired from those problems.

That's how this strong atheist views religion. I just would like to see all religions become more progressive, and more humane. If Christians followed the more positive teachings of their savior, that would be better for all of us. I just don't see that happen very often these days. But, I do wonder if my sweet, poor Christian friend would have more emotional struggles in her life, if she didn't have her church community and her beliefs. She is the only friend of mine, who was never told I'm an atheist. She has probably figured out by now that I'm not religious, but I see no need to tell her that I don't believe in her god, as that might cause her more emotional pain. I could never hurt this dear woman, and since her beliefs seem to bring out the best in her, and help her cope, it's best to allow her not to have to worry about her white, godless friend. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Then again, perhaps she is the type of person who judges others based on their characters and not on their beliefs. That is how I tend to see others. I don't care what they believe as long as they don't use those beliefs to harm or judge others.

I think it's very much like a child believing in Santa. Given the child's limited experiences and knowledge Santa belief makes a lot of sense and is likely helpful. But I doubt such a belief in and of itself does anything for emotional improvement. It's just another component of the whole package.

Even placebos are known to benefit for some people.

 

[Learner]

Agree with a lot of #15. It's risible when believers (in my experience, many Christians) talk up religion as if, without it, they (or more likely, 'most of us') would be burglars, rapists, and razor murderers, because there'd be nothing to stop them. How's that for an image of basic humanity?

Yes, it is not unheard of, that a lot of individuals who have come out of prison, have changed from their old particular ways, due to their new found faith, while being inside. Or things like reading those headlines like for example "Ex-gang member becomes a pastor, preaching the Gospel on his Harley Davidson..." there's been a few of those I believe.

I have no doubt that sometimes people are positively influenced by their religion beliefs, but at the same time, many of those who invaded the US capital on January 6th were evangelical Christians, who believed that Trump was sent by god. So, it works both ways, doesn't it?

As you describe it, I can agree with 'both ways' (depending on each individual). Which was why I was highlighting the viewpoint; where religion CAN be helpful.

At least two of the worst offenders on Jan. 6th were very devout Christians. Can you accept that their Christian beliefs may have influenced them to do the horrible things they did? If not, then at least admit that their Christian beliefs failed to keep them from committing the violent things that they did on that day?

Firstly the two worst offenders as devout Christians: It seems to me, they were more 'politically' devout than they were being devout Christians, from what you say.

Secondly, about their "Christian beliefs failed them," as you're putting it ... "I'd say they failed 'the Christian belief."

 

[Rhea]

Of course it can be helpful. Anecdotes exist. And it can be very very destructive (Andrea Yates).

Which was my point. It is not consistent, it does not have a pattern of doing good. It is no better than random. What’s not random is that human community is beneficial.

Religion does not have a track record for good.

 

[steve_bank]

Of course it can be helpful. Anecdotes exist. And it can be very very destructive (Andrea Yates).

Which was my point. It is not consistent, it does not have a pattern of doing good. It is no better than random. What’s not random is that human community is beneficial.

Religion does not have a track record for good.

My response is always how can you separate out religion from everything else?

Our American hyper nationalism and sense of superiority has gotten us mired in constant conflict. Our political divsins are far more harmful the religion. I'd add pop culture as well, gross 24/7 consumption and gratification.

In the American colonies a church was the center of a community. It provided social services of the day.

There are positives and negatives to religion along with unions for an example.

Who needs god when I can talk to a mental health bot app on my phone...sarcasm.

 

[southernhybrid]

Religion, imo, is just like all made up beliefs or organizations. For some people, it offers hope and purpose, while for others, it causes pain and cognitive dissonance.

As one who grew up in an evangelical home, I can attest that Christianity caused me emotional pain, and cognitive dissonance, eventually leading to my atheism. For others, like a very poor, Black friend of mine, it offers purpose and hope. Sure, it's false hope, but if people never realize that there is no heaven and that a god isn't watching over them and protecting them, I don't see the harm in that.

We all find different ways of maintaining our mental health, but some of us are predisposed to mental illness, anxiety, depression etc. Religion can't change that, but in some cases, having a community where you are supported and loved, can at least lessen the pain acquired from those problems.

That's how this strong atheist views religion. I just would like to see all religions become more progressive, and more humane. If Christians followed the more positive teachings of their savior, that would be better for all of us. I just don't see that happen very often these days. But, I do wonder if my sweet, poor Christian friend would have more emotional struggles in her life, if she didn't have her church community and her beliefs. She is the only friend of mine, who was never told I'm an atheist. She has probably figured out by now that I'm not religious, but I see no need to tell her that I don't believe in her god, as that might cause her more emotional pain. I could never hurt this dear woman, and since her beliefs seem to bring out the best in her, and help her cope, it's best to allow her not to have to worry about her white, godless friend. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Then again, perhaps she is the type of person who judges others based on their characters and not on their beliefs. That is how I tend to see others. I don't care what they believe as long as they don't use those beliefs to harm or judge others.

I think it's very much like a child believing in Santa. Given the child's limited experiences and knowledge Santa belief makes a lot of sense and is likely helpful. But I doubt such a belief in and of itself does anything for emotional improvement. It's just another component of the whole package.

Even placebos are known to benefit for some people.

As one of our former posters once said, "God is Santa Claus for adults". So, it's obvious that some people need to believe in Santas well beyond childhood. I can only give anecdotal evidence but I think that it helps some people, based on what some of my Christian friends tell me. I can't read their minds so it would be arrogant of me to think they aren't being truthful. Plus, as has been mentioned, without their beliefs, they would have no community or social support, which most people, other than perhaps some extreme introverts, need to live a satisfying life.

 

[southernhybrid]

I have no doubt that sometimes people are positively influenced by their religion beliefs, but at the same time, many of those who invaded the US capital on January 6th were evangelical Christians, who believed that Trump was sent by god. So, it works both ways, doesn't it?

As you describe it, I can agree with 'both ways' (depending on each individual). Which was why I was highlighting the viewpoint; where religion CAN be helpful.

At least two of the worst offenders on Jan. 6th were very devout Christians. Can you accept that their Christian beliefs may have influenced them to do the horrible things they did? If not, then at least admit that their Christian beliefs failed to keep them from committing the violent things that they did on that day?

Firstly the two worst offenders as devout Christians: It seems to me, they were more 'politically' devout than they were being devout Christians, from what you say.

Secondly, about their "Christian beliefs failed them," as you're putting it ... "I'd say they failed 'the Christian belief."

With all due respect, Learner, your Bible tells you not to judge, so I don't think it's fair of you to say that these people failed the Christian belief.

I'm going to quote from a link that described some of the worst invaders of the capital on January 6th for you.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/10/16/us/capitol-riot.html

7 And a self-made businessman from Kentucky named Clayton Ray Mullins, 52, described as a well-intentioned person devoted to keeping his small country church afloat. He does not drink, smoke, curse or bother with social media, and prefers old westerns to the news.


On the first Sunday of 2021, Mr. Mullins arrived at the church before anyone else, as always, and made sure everything was just so — down to placing a water glass at the pulpit for the morning’s preacher. The next day, Jan. 4, he began the two-day drive with his wife and a sister to a place he’d never been: Washington.

I still think that his beliefs failed him. His beliefs failed him from living a moral life.

They say they thought this might be their last chance to experience a Trump rally. They say they had no intention of rioting or trespassing to keep Mr. Trump in office.

Even if this were true, why did Mr. Mullins join the mob overrunning the Capitol grounds? Why was he standing so close to the violent standoff with the police? Why did he pull on the leg of a downed officer under attack?

Sitting recently in his empty church, so far from Washington, Mr. Mullins began to weep, as the question hung heavy over him, his family, his community, this country.

Why?

There were many others that day flying Christian flags. Imo, this is evidence that taking the things in the Bible as true, doesn't necessarily make you a better person. My late father was a Christian, but he was also an abusive parent, and a very troubled man who suffered from anxiety and depression well after becoming "saved". His beliefs may have helped him make more friends, but they also made the childhood of his children much harder, imo. You may feel that you benefit from your beliefs, and I'm not refuting that. I'm just refuting the idea that such beliefs are good for everyone, or that they help people be more ethical.

 

[rousseau]

Does eating food make you healthier? It depends on the type of food, and how much.

Similarly, 'Christianity' doesn't exist as a monolith, you need to be specific about which type you're talking about, and how that type fits into the culture that holds it, and even then you're looking at the interplay with unique individuals. A quick Google search lists 2.3 billion Christians in the world, so surely a generalization about every single one of those people is going to be incomplete.

Atheists will want to take the opportunity to point out negative aspects of Christianity, fair enough, but the reality is considerably more complex than any quick analysis.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Does eating food make you healthier? It depends on the type of food, and how much.

Similarly, 'Christianity' doesn't exist as a monolith, you need to be specific about which type you're talking about, and how that type fits into the culture that holds it, and even then you're looking at the interplay with unique individuals. A quick Google search lists 2.3 billion Christians in the world, so surely a generalization about every single one of those people is going to be incomplete.

Atheists will want to take the opportunity to point out negative aspects of Christianity, fair enough, but the reality is considerably more complex than any quick analysis.

Many humans obviously retain a need to invent and worship some kind of all powerful thing that has all the answers and requires absolute obedience. Doesn't matter if it's a god, a king, a tribe, or some manifestation of woo that gives them comfort, something that satisfies that impulsive, primal desire and need to express subjugation and loyalty. In the end we're probably best served to worship a healthy prefontal cortex, that part of the brain that tamps down and dampens those primitive behaviors.

 

[steve_bank]

To continue the food metaphor, there is food that keeps you healthy and food that leads to obesity and heart disease.

Junk food religion vs fruit and vegetables religion?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Further the metaphor further, since my gall bladder was removed, and my diabetes diagnosis, and my kidney disease, the effort to determine if food is good or bad is a lot more complicated. Good for (a hypothetical ) you is not necessarily good for me. I cannot gain the same benefits that (hypothetical) you may enjoy from a certain dish.
And some people insisting i would really benefit from their favorite dish are just not paying attention.

 

[Wiploc]

To continue the food metaphor, there is food that keeps you healthy and food that leads to obesity and heart disease.

Junk food religion vs fruit and vegetables religion?

My point of view: Religion is inherently junk. The world would be better off if we all ate more vegetables and less religion.

 

[Jarhyn]

To continue the food metaphor, there is food that keeps you healthy and food that leads to obesity and heart disease.

Junk food religion vs fruit and vegetables religion?

My point of view: Religion is inherently junk. The world would be better off if we all ate more vegetables and less religion.

I'm with you there. Mostly it's because the nutrients in this "analogical food" are exactly the principles and frameworks which are founded on painstaking investigation and formal thought.

Religion is junk because it has all the calories of emotional validation and even some of the ostensible nutrients of positive function... But it lacks the substantive vitamins of reason and basis.

With it, you might be able to survive, but that goiter of axiomatic overgrowth is plain for all to see.

 

[ideologyhunter]

This is why humor is rightly the tonic chord of freethinkers. Religion is flapdoodle, but every American town of any size has multiple buildings devoted to it and multiple clerics providing it. There are colleges devoted to it. It's on our money, even though the local flavor of flapdoodle has an alleged issue with mixing money and flapdoodle. You can't become commander in chief of our armed forces without at least pretending to be devoted to the flapdoodle. It's based on ridiculous stories that in any other context would be jeered at, by most adults. And somehow, it's presumed that we have to respect it. I say, let the snark pour forth. Flapdoodle in sight, sir. Shall I fire?

 

[steve_bank]

To continue the food metaphor, there is food that keeps you healthy and food that leads to obesity and heart disease.

Junk food religion vs fruit and vegetables religion?

My point of view: Religion is inherently junk. The world would be better off if we all ate more vegetables and less religion.

One man's junk is another man's treasure?

One of the most popular thing in the USA is TV 'pro' wrestling. Even more so in Mexico. I knew a woman who's son worked in it. The matches are scripted at the beginning of the year and adjusted based on fan reactions. People think it is real.

Back in the 90s the guy who started the WWF Ed McMahan made a video showing his limo blowing up. It caused a reaction in the fans who believed it. He is the one who created 'The Rock'. In the wrestling pantheon there are good guys and bad guys.

If you don't know who The Rock is you must be living in a cage. When I was a kid it was Haystack Calhoun and Gorgeous George and Bruno Samarino..

In TV wrestling reality and phantasy become blurred.

It fills a need for some people.

The Soviets tried to eradicate religion and failed. When the Soviets collpsed it srang right back. The Chinese tried to eradicate religion and failed. They pragmatically tried to regulate it and was partially successful. Christianity went underground meeting in homes, 'illegal' unapproved churches.

As to Tibetan Buddhism they decided to presume the authority to appoint the Dali Lama. Same with high level Catholic clerics.

Christianity exists in North Korea.

As a freetthnker I look at things as they are despite what I think and while I reject it and debate it, it appears to fill a human need. Given the long human history of religion I would not use the word junk.

When I was starting as an engineer and was Having some trouble someone told me 'You can not apply engineering logic to people'. I found he was right. If you try to frame human behavior in scientific logic and reason us humans will never make sense.

Prostitution and religion both fill a need, and both go back to early civilizations.

Personally I consider pop culture inclusive of music and video 'junk'.

 

[Wiploc]

My point of view: Religion is inherently junk. The world would be better off if we all ate more vegetables and less religion.

The Soviets tried to eradicate religion and failed. When the Soviets collpsed it srang right back.

That doesn't contradict my simile. If government tried to eradicate junk food, that would spring right back too.

 

[Learner]

When there was no religion or limited religion was it "better" then ... Soviet style, Berlin waller etc..?

Some people like brussell sprouts, others avoid them but still eat other vegetables.

 

[rousseau]

My point of view: Religion is inherently junk. The world would be better off if we all ate more vegetables and less religion.

The Soviets tried to eradicate religion and failed. When the Soviets collpsed it srang right back.

That doesn't contradict my simile. If government tried to eradicate junk food, that would spring right back too.

Do we want to live in a world where people aren't free to make their own choices / believe what they want to? Should every part of a culture be about efficiency / logic?

One of the contradictions in the anti-religion argument is that the conclusion of scientific thought is that human behaviour doesn't work in the benefit of the species, and yet we still hold onto the idea that we're evolving away from religion on the march of social progress. Science tells us that religious-thinking is an intrinsic part of our world, and yet those who embrace science don't seem to understand this point. To me this comes across as just another version of dogma, rather than the actual practice of scientific deduction and following evidence to a sound conclusion.

I get why people might want to complain about religion, and I understand how living in a world with completely unreasonable people is a bit jarring. But to me there's more peace and beauty in seeing it as it is, than falling under the delusion that religion is an accident / defect of our history.