Alec Baldwin Fatally Shoots Crew Member With Prop Firearm, Authorities Say

[thebeave]

After reading the thread and news reports and thinking about it can someone answer the question - what possible reason is there for a prop gun to ever have a live round?

Yeah, my understanding is they typically use blanks in the gun and squibs on the targets to simulate a bullet hit. So, no need for live bullets. Though, I could see some situations where it might be easier and cheaper to bring in a marksman with a real gun and ammo and have him do some shooting (not on live targets of course) as a shortcut to setting up a shit ton of squibs. What happened here makes no sense at all.

 

[TSwizzle]

This could have been a script for Columbo.

There actually was an episode (Fade in to Murder) where the murderer is an actor (William Shatner) and he uses a borrowed prop gun to kill a studio employee, but not in the course of filming.

Oh, one more thing. Mr. Chekov from Star Trek is also in this episode.

I vaguely remember Shatner being in a Columbo episode. I occasionally watch Columbo reruns so I’ll watch out for this episode. Peter Falk’s wife also makes an appearance in this episode.

 

[thebeave]

It seems the armorer on set was a little on the inexperienced side:

https://nypost.com/2021/10/23/rust-...-reed-once-gave-unchecked-gun-to-child-actor/

Last month, Guitierrez- Reed said on a podcast that she was “nervous” about her abilities as an armorer while she was working on “The Old Way” — her first experience as head armorer.

“You know, I was really nervous about it at first, and I almost didn’t take the job because I wasn’t sure if I was ready … but, doing it, like, it went really smoothly,” she said last month on the Voices of the West podcast.

A reader's comment I saw on another article mentioned that she and some other crew members were doing target practice off set earlier in the week (day?) using that same gun with live ammo. Haven't yet found anything to confirm that, but its the only thing I've heard that sounds even remotely plausible to explain what happened.

 

[TV and credit cards]

It seems the armorer on set was a little on the inexperienced side:

https://nypost.com/2021/10/23/rust-...-reed-once-gave-unchecked-gun-to-child-actor/



A reader's comment I saw on another article mentioned that she and some other crew members were doing target practice off set earlier in the week (day?) using that same gun with live ammo. Haven't yet found anything to confirm that, but its the only thing I've heard that sounds even remotely plausible to explain what happened.

Doesn’t speak well of armorer father Thell Reed. Did you bother to train daughter at all? It does speak to the nepotism that likely got Hannah her job.
When I think of all the qualified range masters in the navy who upon leaving would be a much better fit for such a position. Inexcusable.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Shaping the narrative is underway. Some good info in this AP article. Looks like they are setting up Assistant Director Dave Halls to be the fall guy on this. Negative comments about him. Positive ones about Baldwin.
The article does make one think about all the dangerous stuff performed for the sake of making movies.
Here’s another that speaks to that:
Fatal and serious injuries.

 

[DBT]

Poor safety standards, inexperienced armorer, crew using handguns for target practice using live ammo after hours caused a tragedy. Live ammo has no place on the set.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This makes me remember a scene from the third (?) season of 24, when Jack Bauer finally shoots the CTU mole. The scene looked awful as it went from closeup looking up toward Bauer, to a further away filming when he fires. I recall some people, like me, complaining about how anti-climatic the scene was because of that, but I recall someone raising an issue like this regarding the hazard of shooting it otherwise.

I'm full of useless information like this.

 

[TSwizzle]

It is unbelievable that a anyone who is handed a gun would not check to see if it was loaded.

 

[none]

Yeah, on a movie site.. unbelievable... it's policy
And who sets policy.... the employer... in accordance to the law.. so 1099 everyone

 

[DBT]

There is no reason for having live ammo on a movie site.

 

[none]

The director.. his name, he disagrees and he has the power

 

[TSwizzle]

There is no reason for having live ammo on a movie site.

Whether this is true or not, if you are handed a gun, even if it is a prop, you should still check if it's loaded. If you assume "well, no live ammo is allowed on set then I'm good, I don't need to check this lethal weapon for ammo" you are making a potentially fatal error as Baldwin did. Even if someone you trust hands you a gun saying it's not loaded, you check it anyway.

 

[none]

There is no reason for having live ammo on a movie site.

Whether this is true or not, if you are handed a gun, even if it is a prop, you should still check if it's loaded. If you assume "well, no live ammo is allowed on set then I'm good, I don't need to check this lethal weapon for ammo" you are making a potentially fatal error as Baldwin did. Even if someone you trust hands you a gun saying it's not loaded, you check it anyway.

hmm.that requires training and you know where that goes... straight into the shitter...

 

[DBT]

There is no reason for having live ammo on a movie site.

Whether this is true or not, if you are handed a gun, even if it is a prop, you should still check if it's loaded. If you assume "well, no live ammo is allowed on set then I'm good, I don't need to check this lethal weapon for ammo" you are making a potentially fatal error as Baldwin did. Even if someone you trust hands you a gun saying it's not loaded, you check it anyway.

That's true, but actors are not necessarily trained in gun safety, their role involves pointing guns at other actors and pulling the trigger, which is why they hire an armorer to ensure gun safety. On this occasion there was failure on multiple fronts. The armorer should have insisted that actors check firearms as a final step.

 

[TSwizzle]

There is no reason for having live ammo on a movie site.

Whether this is true or not, if you are handed a gun, even if it is a prop, you should still check if it's loaded. If you assume "well, no live ammo is allowed on set then I'm good, I don't need to check this lethal weapon for ammo" you are making a potentially fatal error as Baldwin did. Even if someone you trust hands you a gun saying it's not loaded, you check it anyway.

That's true, but actors are not necessarily trained in gun safety, their role involves pointing guns at other actors and pulling the trigger, which is why they hire an armorer to ensure gun safety. On this occasion there was failure on multiple fronts. The armorer should have insisted that actors check firearms as a final step.

I suppose but I personally would never assume that a gun was unloaded unless I checked it myself no matter who handed it to me. It just seems so obvious to me and I'm not a gun owner and have rarely touched guns. But I guess people get complacent and ignorance plays a role too. The whole set up was very shoddy by the sounds of it.

 

[none]

There is no reason for having live ammo on a movie site.

Whether this is true or not, if you are handed a gun, even if it is a prop, you should still check if it's loaded. If you assume "well, no live ammo is allowed on set then I'm good, I don't need to check this lethal weapon for ammo" you are making a potentially fatal error as Baldwin did. Even if someone you trust hands you a gun saying it's not loaded, you check it anyway.

That's true, but actors are not necessarily trained in gun safety, their role involves pointing guns at other actors and pulling the trigger, which is why they hire an armorer to ensure gun safety. On this occasion there was failure on multiple fronts. The armorer should have insisted that actors check firearms as a final step.

I suppose but I personally would never assume that a gun was unloaded unless I checked it myself no matter who handed it to me. It just seems so obvious to me and I'm not a gun owner and have rarely touched guns. But I guess people get complacent and ignorance plays a role too. The whole set up was very shoddy by the sounds of it.

wanna make a movie?

 

[Shadowy Man]

There is no reason for having live ammo on a movie site.

Whether this is true or not, if you are handed a gun, even if it is a prop, you should still check if it's loaded. If you assume "well, no live ammo is allowed on set then I'm good, I don't need to check this lethal weapon for ammo" you are making a potentially fatal error as Baldwin did. Even if someone you trust hands you a gun saying it's not loaded, you check it anyway.

That's true, but actors are not necessarily trained in gun safety, their role involves pointing guns at other actors and pulling the trigger, which is why they hire an armorer to ensure gun safety. On this occasion there was failure on multiple fronts. The armorer should have insisted that actors check firearms as a final step.

I suppose but I personally would never assume that a gun was unloaded unless I checked it myself no matter who handed it to me. It just seems so obvious to me and I'm not a gun owner and have rarely touched guns. But I guess people get complacent and ignorance plays a role too. The whole set up was very shoddy by the sounds of it.

That might seem like a sensible protective measure to take and isn't really that large an inconvenience to protect yourself and those around you, but given the extremely low probability that someone actually dies of a gunshot on a movie set can't you see why someone would forego such activity?

 

[ZiprHead]

There is no reason for having live ammo on a movie site.

Whether this is true or not, if you are handed a gun, even if it is a prop, you should still check if it's loaded. If you assume "well, no live ammo is allowed on set then I'm good, I don't need to check this lethal weapon for ammo" you are making a potentially fatal error as Baldwin did. Even if someone you trust hands you a gun saying it's not loaded, you check it anyway.

That's true, but actors are not necessarily trained in gun safety, their role involves pointing guns at other actors and pulling the trigger, which is why they hire an armorer to ensure gun safety. On this occasion there was failure on multiple fronts. The armorer should have insisted that actors check firearms as a final step.

When the armorer gives the actor the gun the actor assumes the armorer did the job properly for the scene being shot.

 

[ZiprHead]

There is no reason for having live ammo on a movie site.

Whether this is true or not, if you are handed a gun, even if it is a prop, you should still check if it's loaded. If you assume "well, no live ammo is allowed on set then I'm good, I don't need to check this lethal weapon for ammo" you are making a potentially fatal error as Baldwin did. Even if someone you trust hands you a gun saying it's not loaded, you check it anyway.

That's true, but actors are not necessarily trained in gun safety, their role involves pointing guns at other actors and pulling the trigger, which is why they hire an armorer to ensure gun safety. On this occasion there was failure on multiple fronts. The armorer should have insisted that actors check firearms as a final step.

I suppose but I personally would never assume that a gun was unloaded unless I checked it myself no matter who handed it to me. It just seems so obvious to me and I'm not a gun owner and have rarely touched guns. But I guess people get complacent and ignorance plays a role too. The whole set up was very shoddy by the sounds of it.

A witness stated that AB exclaimed he had never been given a live gun on a movie set in his life. And he's done several movies where guns were used.

 

[thebeave]

There is no reason for having live ammo on a movie site.

Whether this is true or not, if you are handed a gun, even if it is a prop, you should still check if it's loaded. If you assume "well, no live ammo is allowed on set then I'm good, I don't need to check this lethal weapon for ammo" you are making a potentially fatal error as Baldwin did. Even if someone you trust hands you a gun saying it's not loaded, you check it anyway.

That's true, but actors are not necessarily trained in gun safety, their role involves pointing guns at other actors and pulling the trigger, which is why they hire an armorer to ensure gun safety. On this occasion there was failure on multiple fronts. The armorer should have insisted that actors check firearms as a final step.

I suppose but I personally would never assume that a gun was unloaded unless I checked it myself no matter who handed it to me. It just seems so obvious to me and I'm not a gun owner and have rarely touched guns. But I guess people get complacent and ignorance plays a role too. The whole set up was very shoddy by the sounds of it.

That might seem like a sensible protective measure to take and isn't really that large an inconvenience to protect yourself and those around you, but given the extremely low probability that someone actually dies of a gunshot on a movie set can't you see why someone would forego such activity?

Had it been a more safety oriented set, I would agree with this. But given that there were 2 or 3 accidental discharges during the week (I know...WTF??) , both the AD and AB should have at least done a dry fire into the ground. Which brings up another point...why did AB not raise hell about the earlier accidental discharges? That's outrageous to keep going on like nothing happened.