Is the "rich young man" a special case?

[Unknown Soldier]

We are told that when a rich young man asked Jesus how to attain eternal life, Jesus answered that in addition to keeping the commandments, the man must sell all he had giving the proceeds to the poor and then to follow Jesus. I've pointed out to many Christians that they haven't followed these directions, and in particular I've explained to them that they haven't sold all they have giving the money to the poor. The usual response from Christians is that Jesus' directions apply only to the rich young man. Other people, like these lucky Christians, can have eternal life while keeping all their worldly goodies.

So is the rich young man a special case in that he had especially tough requirements to meet to attain eternal life while most other people get by much more easily? Why would Jesus single out this rich young man being so very tough on him while making salvation a breeze for other potential Christians? Could it be that although Christians want to go to heaven they want a piece of the pie here on earth?

 

[FwL]

You can either look at it as none of these people are getting in to heaven, or god favors the sly and crafty, so heaven will be full of these people.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Or you can see the entire jesus story, complete with his putting on the superman cape, saving us, and then flying away back to krypton as another extended parable, another existential reflection on the human condition. Going into the finery of these stories, deriving lessons, is an exercise in critical analysis which depends entirely on one's starting assumptions, biases and knowledge of history. All the christians I've ever known worship the jesus story but in no way attempt to emulate it in full. That's because subconsciously they realize it is just a story like any other and that they can make changes to the story. That's culture.

Another way to look at it is as a reflection of widespread belief in the paranormal, no different than Ufology or Bigfoot or you name it. But that's another thread.

 

[steve_bank]

The modern 'success gospel' preached by some conservative evangelicals , god wants you be rich. It justifies preachers who get rich preaching.

 

[Thomas II]

We are told that when a rich young man asked Jesus how to attain eternal life, Jesus answered that in addition to keeping the commandments, the man must sell all he had giving the proceeds to the poor and then to follow Jesus. I've pointed out to many Christians that they haven't followed these directions, and in particular I've explained to them that they haven't sold all they have giving the money to the poor. The usual response from Christians is that Jesus' directions apply only to the rich young man. Other people, like these lucky Christians, can have eternal life while keeping all their worldly goodies.

So is the rich young man a special case in that he had especially tough requirements to meet to attain eternal life while most other people get by much more easily? Why would Jesus single out this rich young man being so very tough on him while making salvation a breeze for other potential Christians? Could it be that although Christians want to go to heaven they want a piece of the pie here on earth?

Maybe the young man was asking how to attain "perfection"...and he seemed too arrogant, narcissistic, full of himself...Jesus told him to get rid of that attitude...

 

[Unknown Soldier]

You can either look at it as none of these people are getting in to heaven, or god favors the sly and crafty, so heaven will be full of these people.

If God favors the sly and crafty, then Jesus clearly lied to the rich young man. If such people populate heaven, and we make it to heaven, then we better keep an eye on them!

Seriously, many Christians find they need to need to trade-off Jesus as savior with Jesus as Lord. They want the former, but the latter can be a major pain in the ass with all his difficult commandments. Jesus as Lord is only useful as a means to lay guilt trips on others. "You just don't want to give up your sins!" As if Christians have given up their sins. LOL

 

[Politesse]

We are told that when a rich young man asked Jesus how to attain eternal life, Jesus answered that in addition to keeping the commandments, the man must sell all he had giving the proceeds to the poor and then to follow Jesus. I've pointed out to many Christians that they haven't followed these directions, and in particular I've explained to them that they haven't sold all they have giving the money to the poor. The usual response from Christians is that Jesus' directions apply only to the rich young man. Other people, like these lucky Christians, can have eternal life while keeping all their worldly goodies.

So is the rich young man a special case in that he had especially tough requirements to meet to attain eternal life while most other people get by much more easily? Why would Jesus single out this rich young man being so very tough on him while making salvation a breeze for other potential Christians? Could it be that although Christians want to go to heaven they want a piece of the pie here on earth?

Jesus elsewhere makes it absolutely clear that rich people straight up have no place in the kingdom of heaven, so I'm not seeing the case for interpreting this story any other way. If someone is a nominative Christian, but they also enjoy luxuries while the poor suffer, then from a Christian perspective, "they have received their reward" and should enjoy it while it lasts. Because it won't last for long.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

All the christians I've ever known worship the jesus story but in no way attempt to emulate it in full. That's because subconsciously they realize it is just a story like any other and that they can make changes to the story. That's culture.

That's hypocrisy and deception too. Yes, I've seen Christians many times interpret scripture to excuse themselves from some commandment they don't wish to obey. Doing so can be very wise because much of what Jesus commanded his followers to do is foolish if not downright dangerous. The difference between sincere Christians and the hypocrites is a matter of life and limb. So in the final analysis, most Christians end up living like non-Christians, the Gospel's injunctions making little difference for them. You don't see the sincere Christians because few of them survive Jesus.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The modern 'success gospel' preached by some conservative evangelicals , god wants you be rich. It justifies preachers who get rich preaching.

We have a discrepancy in Jesus' theology: We can pray and receive what we ask for, but we must give away all that we have. The two nullify each other. If I need a new car, and God grants my request only to result in my needing to give that car away, then what's the point in asking for it at all?

But keep one very important point in mind: Jesus never told the rich young man when to sell all he had. So maybe those rich preachers have every intention to give away their wealth; they just haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Jesus elsewhere makes it absolutely clear that rich people straight up have no place in the kingdom of heaven, so I'm not seeing the case for interpreting this story any other way.

That rules out Donald Trump's salvation along with anybody else who is anything more than dirt poor.

If someone is a nominative Christian, but they also enjoy luxuries while the poor suffer, then from a Christian perspective, "they have received their reward" and should enjoy it while it lasts. Because it won't last for long.

I'm poor, but I do have some luxuries that I enjoy. Am I then doomed or not? Unfortunately, Jesus doesn't specify what "rich" is, so if you're clever you'll define "rich" as having more money than what you have.

 

[Politesse]

The modern 'success gospel' preached by some conservative evangelicals , god wants you be rich. It justifies preachers who get rich preaching.

We have a discrepancy in Jesus' theology: We can pray and receive what we ask for, but we must give away all that we have. The two nullify each other. If I need a new car, and God grants my request only to result in my needing to give that car away, then what's the point in asking for it at all?

But keep one very important point in mind: Jesus never told the rich young man when to sell all he had. So maybe those rich preachers have every intention to give away their wealth; they just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Easy solution: don't pray for a car in the first place.

 

[Politesse]

Jesus elsewhere makes it absolutely clear that rich people straight up have no place in the kingdom of heaven, so I'm not seeing the case for interpreting this story any other way.

That rules out Donald Trump's salvation along with anybody else who is anything more than dirt poor.

If someone is a nominative Christian, but they also enjoy luxuries while the poor suffer, then from a Christian perspective, "they have received their reward" and should enjoy it while it lasts. Because it won't last for long.

I'm poor, but I do have some luxuries that I enjoy. Am I then doomed or not? Unfortunately, Jesus doesn't specify what "rich" is, so if you're clever you'll define "rich" as having more money than what you have.

He didn't say you were doomed, just that such pleasures are fleeting, and morally injurious if gotten at another person's expense.

And you shouldn't need Jesus to tell you something as plainly obvious as the fact that if there's a hell, Trump has a reserved seat.

 

[steve_bank]

The passage sounds like the Buddhist give all away and take up your begging bowl. Predated Jesus by about 300 years. Jesus was always on the run on the outskirts. He is identified with John The Baptist who was as we say today, living off the land. Scrounging.

There is a gospel reference to secret or esoteric teachings by Jesus.

In the gospels Jesus is preaching to poor Jews at the bottom. The gospel moral is believe in god and Jesus, suffer your troubles, and get an eternal heavenly reward. I believe James wrote the rich shall wither like a flower.

The Jewish power elite who Jesus antagonized were analogous to the wealthy Christian religious elite today. The Billy Grams. The temple in Jerusalem was a profit makings corporation.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The passage sounds like the Buddhist give all away and take up your begging bowl. Predated Jesus by about 300 years. Jesus was always on the run on the outskirts. He is identified with John The Baptist who was as we say today, living off the land. Scrounging.

The similarities between Jesus and Buddha seem to be too numerous to be coincidence. There's not much at all in the Gospel story that's original or unique. You would think that God could come up with his own ideas.

There is a gospel reference to secret or esoteric teachings by Jesus.

In the gospels Jesus is preaching to poor Jews at the bottom. The gospel moral is believe in god and Jesus, suffer your troubles, and get an eternal heavenly reward. I believe James wrote the rich shall wither like a flower.

Jesus never explained why wealth and luxury is so evil now and so great in the future. Maybe he knew he couldn't actually provide heaven so he put it off to the indeterminate future. That way he could always tell people to wait just a bit longer.

The Jewish power elite who Jesus antagonized were analogous to the wealthy Christian religious elite today. The Billy Grams. The temple in Jerusalem was a profit makings corporation.

Whatever the Pharisees may have actually been like, Jesus apparently has done no better. His religious leadership never rid the world of fools and hypocrites, now has it?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

If someone is a nominative Christian, but they also enjoy luxuries while the poor suffer, then from a Christian perspective, "they have received their reward" and should enjoy it while it lasts. Because it won't last for long.

Nothing lasts, so the wise thing to do is enjoy life while we can. It's very foolish to defer pleasure to a supposed afterlife that is conjecture at best.

He didn't say you were doomed, just that such pleasures are fleeting, and morally injurious if gotten at another person's expense.

Earthly pleasures might be fleeting, but we know they're real.

Oh, and Jesus pronounced doom on people all the time including the wealthy--especially the wealthy. He really seemed to hate them probably out of jealousy.

And you shouldn't need Jesus to tell you something as plainly obvious as the fact that if there's a hell, Trump has a reserved seat.

Trump isn't that bad, but Jesus would think he's bad because he's rich. That fact doesn't seem to bother Trump as he attends church regularly.

 

[Politesse]

Oh, and Jesus pronounced doom on people all the time including the wealthy--especially the wealthy. He really seemed to hate them probably out of jealousy.

Jealousy? What makes you think that?

Jesus' proclamations of "doom" weren't random -- they were aimed at those who exploit others for their own gain. The wealthy, the powerful, the pious, the hypocritical.

People who abstain from wealth aren't miserable. People who are forced to struggle through poverty not of their own making or volition are miserable.

 

[excreationist]

Maybe the young man was asking how to attain "perfection"...and he seemed too arrogant, narcissistic, full of himself...Jesus told him to get rid of that attitude...

In Matthew 19:

Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”​

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”​

“Which ones?” he inquired.​

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”​

“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”​

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”​

 

[excreationist]

Something interesting in all 3 versions:

Matthew 19:17
“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

Mark 10:18
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone."

Luke 18:19
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone."

It seems that, at least at that point in time, Jesus was saying that he wasn't God....

 

[Politesse]

Something interesting in all 3 versions:

Matthew 19:17
“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

Mark 10:18
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone."

Luke 18:19
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone."

It seems that, at least at that point in time, Jesus was saying that he wasn't God....

Jesus never claimed to be a God, that was his followers after the fact.

 

[excreationist]

Jesus never claimed to be a God, that was his followers after the fact.

That's interesting but I have a feeling many Christians would say that you can't be saved if you believe that Jesus was a mere man....