Covid-19 miscellany

[TomC]

I have said before that people with infectious diseases should be isolated until they are no longer infectious.

But you never explain how to distinguish between people who are infectious and those who aren't.
It's a crucial distinction. And top epidemiological experts don't claim to be able to do that without tests.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

I've corrected you on this before.

There's no way to tell who's infected and who is not. Here in the modern world, we recognize that asymptomatic carriers exist.

Yet, like another dishonest analogy or two, you keep repeating this. It isn't possible to isolate everyone who is infected and only the people who are infected.
The information is easy to find. Even I can understand it. I'm no epidemiology expert. But I understand concepts like herd immunity, asymptomatic carriers, and indirect consequences. It's just not that difficult, if your goal is to make moral choices. If your goal is to protect your ideological purity, science won't be much help.
Tom

Yes, asymptomatic carriers are everywhere, right now. On the Gold Coast, a random trial showed that 90 per cent of the people who tested positive for omicron were asymptomatic and didn't know they had it. 90.2 per cent of the people in Queensland are vaccinated.

 

[Metaphor]

And yet you somehow manage to stop short of saying they should be, either.

Gospa moja, one absurdity doth tread upon another's heels, so fast they follow. I have said before that people with infectious diseases should be isolated until they are no longer infectious.

So you agree, then, with a frequent testing mandate and isolation requirements for everyone who will not vaccinate?

I do fucking not agree to any such thing, and how you could possibly think that flows from my stated positions I cannot grasp.

I agree that people with COVID, or any infectious disease, should isolate until they are no longer infectious.

 

[Metaphor]

But you never explain how to distinguish between people who are infectious and those who aren't.
It's a crucial distinction. And top epidemiological experts don't claim to be able to do that without tests.
Tom

I could have omicron right now. Most people who have it are asymptomatic. Do you believe the entire population should be testing themselves once a day forever? Remember that I'm triple-vaxxed but that does not rule out getting omicron and passing it on.

 

[Metaphor]

We have definitely isolated people who were asymptomatic but infected with TB.

I've said multiple times, about eleventy million at last count, that people with infectious diseases should be isolated until they are no longer infectious.

People can and do spend COVID when they unknowingly have asymptomatic infections. I suspect some do it even if they know they are sick.

Yes. Indeed, in a random trial on the Gold Coast in Queensland, 90% of people who had COVID (Omicron) didn't know it.

Why would I take 'correction' from someone who is not only incorrect but has consistently demonstrated his inability to care about the welfare of other people?

Because your analogy was terrible. You isolate infectious people with TB, not all people who are not vaccinated against TB. It seems you are unable to grasp the difference.

 

[Jarhyn]

And yet you somehow manage to stop short of saying they should be, either.

Gospa moja, one absurdity doth tread upon another's heels, so fast they follow. I have said before that people with infectious diseases should be isolated until they are no longer infectious.

So you agree, then, with a frequent testing mandate and isolation requirements for everyone who will not vaccinate?

I do fucking not agree to any such thing, and how you could possibly think that flows from my stated positions I cannot grasp.

I agree that people with COVID, or any infectious disease, should isolate until they are no longer infectious.

So you think that... We should just use the honor system...

In a world that contains active bad actors...

As regards a ridiculously infectious disease...

When we have proof that people just don't care enough to isolate even when they know they have it.

So you are proposing nothing and blowing a lot of wind right up until it results in a messy splat on the floor and nothing else.

Either we test and isolate them, or we vaccinate and do not isolate them, but not taking measures means accepting them as free and empowered vectors under their own recognizance.

 

[TomC]

Yes, asymptomatic carriers are everywhere, right now. On the Gold Coast, a random trial showed that 90 per cent of the people who tested positive for omicron were asymptomatic and didn't know they had it. 90.2 per cent of the people in Queensland are vaccinated.

Which is why, when you post things like

I have said before that people with infectious diseases should be isolated until they are no longer infectious.

you're contradicting yourself.
And reinforcing my belief that your ideology has little to do with reality and is more about supporting your world view.

I don't know how else to interpret the dichotomy between one thing you post and the other thing you post. Infected people should be isolated. Quarantining people who don't want to be isolated and don't feel sick is a human rights violation or something.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

Yes, asymptomatic carriers are everywhere, right now. On the Gold Coast, a random trial showed that 90 per cent of the people who tested positive for omicron were asymptomatic and didn't know they had it. 90.2 per cent of the people in Queensland are vaccinated.

Which is why, when you post things like

I have said before that people with infectious diseases should be isolated until they are no longer infectious.

you're contradicting yourself.
And reinforcing my belief that your ideology has little to do with reality and is more about supporting your world view.

I don't know how else to interpret the dichotomy between one thing you post and the other thing you post. Infected people should be isolated. Quarantining people who don't want to be isolated and don't feel sick is a human rights violation or something.
Tom

I don't think it's about supporting a world view. I expect it's about supporting an addiction of a sort described in some of my other posts in the thread re: fucked up and evil behavior.

 

[Toni]

We have definitely isolated people who were asymptomatic but infected with TB.

I've said multiple times, about eleventy million at last count, that people with infectious diseases should be isolated until they are no longer infectious.

People can and do spend COVID when they unknowingly have asymptomatic infections. I suspect some do it even if they know they are sick.

Yes. Indeed, in a random trial on the Gold Coast in Queensland, 90% of people who had COVID (Omicron) didn't know it.

Why would I take 'correction' from someone who is not only incorrect but has consistently demonstrated his inability to care about the welfare of other people?

Because your analogy was terrible. You isolate infectious people with TB, not all people who are not vaccinated against TB. It seems you are unable to grasp the difference.

Nope. As you've pointed out, in parts of Queensland, 90% of the people who had COVID didn't know it. If they had been vaccinated, they are far less likely to have been infected in the first place or infectious.

That's how vaccinations work.

 

[Metaphor]

So you think that... We should just use the honor system...

In a world that contains active bad actors...

As regards a ridiculously infectious disease...

When we have proof that people just don't care enough to isolate even when they know they have it.

Society uses the honour system for all sorts of things, including other infectious diseases.

But, I have no understanding of what you are saying here. Vaccinated and unvaccinated alike can and do get omicron, so what does this have to do with the 'honour' system?

So you are proposing nothing and blowing a lot of wind right up until it results in a messy splat on the floor and nothing else.

Either we test and isolate them, or we vaccinate and do not isolate them, but not taking measures means accepting them as free and empowered vectors under their own recognizance.

Test and isolate who? Everybody in the population? Everybody in the population can get infected with and pass on omicron.

 

[Metaphor]

Nope. As you've pointed out, in parts of Queensland, 90% of the people who had COVID didn't know it. If they had been vaccinated, they are far less likely to have been infected in the first place or infectious.

That's how vaccinations work.

The current vaccine works well to reduce the severity of disease and likelihood of death from omicron, but I do not know about what percentage of the people on the Gold Coast who tested positive were vaccinated.

Random COVID tests to be conducted after survey finds up to 90pc of positive cases don't know they have it

Two surveys conducted on the Gold Coast late last month reveal more people are living with the virus than reported, with authorities to conduct random tests this weekend to better understand the pandemic's extent.

www.abc.net.au

Most people in the study with mild or no symptoms were fully vaccinated.

This indicates that the vaccine has the possible effect of making infected people asymptomatic when they otherwise would not have been, and an asymptomatic person with omicron is surely more likely to not know they have it and be out and about versus a symptomatic person who at least has some reason to believe they may have omicron.

 

[Metaphor]

you're contradicting yourself.
And reinforcing my belief that your ideology has little to do with reality and is more about supporting your world view.

I don't know how else to interpret the dichotomy between one thing you post and the other thing you post. Infected people should be isolated. Quarantining people who don't want to be isolated and don't feel sick is a human rights violation or something.
Tom

There's no contradiction. I'm sorry if you think there is one, but that is a fault in your reasoning, not mine.

 

[TomC]

you're contradicting yourself.
And reinforcing my belief that your ideology has little to do with reality and is more about supporting your world view.

I don't know how else to interpret the dichotomy between one thing you post and the other thing you post. Infected people should be isolated. Quarantining people who don't want to be isolated and don't feel sick is a human rights violation or something.
Tom

There's no contradiction. I'm sorry if you think there is one, but that is a fault in your reasoning, not mine.

Do you understand that there are people who are infectious and nobody knows it?
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

Do you understand that there are people who are infectious and nobody knows it?
Tom

Yes. In fact, I cannot understand how you could possibly ask me that, given what I've been posting.

EDIT: To make sure we are not talking at cross purposes, I believe you think the following is a contradiction:

"Infectious people should isolate until they are no longer infectious".

and

People infected with omicron sometimes do not know it.

The two statements do not conflict. There is no contradiction.

 

[TomC]

Do you understand that there are people who are infectious and nobody knows it?
Tom

Yes. In fact, I cannot understand how you could possibly ask me that, given what I've been posting.

You seem to believe both that people who are asymptomatic should be free to do as they please until they develop symptoms and also that society hasn't got the right to restrict people who refuse even the most rudimentary forms of infection control.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you. Please clarify.
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

You seem to believe both that people who are asymptomatic should be free to do as they please until they develop symptoms and also that society hasn't got the right to restrict people who refuse even the most rudimentary forms of infection control.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you. Please clarify.
Tom

So, you agree that the two statements I posted were the ones you regard as 'contradictory'?

Infectious people should isolate until they are no longer infectious (of course I mean infectious with normal social contact; cold sores are also transmissible but we don't isolate people with them). That is a general principle. Now, there are some diseases where people do not know they are infectious. That is simply a reality. If they knew (or it was reasonable for them to know, like they attended a party where everyone got infected and they have obvious symptoms), then it is wrong for them to not isolate until they are no longer infectious.

EDIT: People who are asymptomatic but know they have an infectious disease are not 'free to do as they please' and I never said or implied it.

 

[Jarhyn]

People who are asymptomatic but know they have an infectious disease are not 'free to do as they please' and I never said or implied it.

Have you never once heard the phrase uttered "no cop, no stop"?

 

[Metaphor]

People who are asymptomatic but know they have an infectious disease are not 'free to do as they please' and I never said or implied it.

Have you never once heard the phrase uttered "no cop, no stop"?

No. I don't know what it means.

 

[Jarhyn]

People who are asymptomatic but know they have an infectious disease are not 'free to do as they please' and I never said or implied it.

Have you never once heard the phrase uttered "no cop, no stop"?

No. I don't know what it means.

Read the words. There are only four there.

Ask if you need a hint.

 

[Metaphor]

People who are asymptomatic but know they have an infectious disease are not 'free to do as they please' and I never said or implied it.

Have you never once heard the phrase uttered "no cop, no stop"?

No. I don't know what it means.

Read the words. There are only four there.

Ask if you need a hint.

No.