Covid-19 miscellany

[ZiprHead]

Had a trip to the supermarket earlier. Despite the indoor mask mandate still in place, went in the store without a mask, did my shopping, checked out and went on my merry way. Nobody said anything. One other guy in the store was sans mask, we let on to each other with a nod. It was a good day.

You must be so proud.

 

[Jarhyn]

You have the hide to defend the conspiracy theories of anti-vaxxers, by targeting for mocking those who mock them, oh defender of the automatic martyrs.

Non. That is an idiotic accusation. Defending the right of people not to have medical procedures performed on them against their will is neither defense nor approval of their beliefs, but affirmation of their humanity.

They're the ones denying the humanity of those that are around them.

I don't really care all that much about "humans"

"Humans" rape children. "Humans" eat people on occasion.

I care about people.

I've met a lot of people.

I never really want to stop hoping humans can be people, any human at all.

It is not fascist oppression to expect people to

EITHER:

Get vaccinated.

Or

Get tested, regularly, and compulsorily quarantined on a positive test for 14 days AND be denied access to certain medical services until cleared post-infection.

And that this should be enforced!

Because as people have proven, there are plenty of available vectors which are on "no cop, no stop" philosophy.

 

[Hermit]

...would you perform an unconsented medical procedure on somebody solely for the benefit of other people?

I certainly approve of vaccinating people against their will even if it is solely for the benefit of other people. It reduces the spread of pandemics.

It also makes it less likely that the recipients will be infected by the virus, it makes it more likely to be less severe if they do get infected and it makes it less likely that they will die from it.

 

[Toni]

Insisting that human beings have a basic duty to not inflict or prolong suffering on the rest of humanity is also recognizing and actually affording them more respect than you seem willing to do.

What eye-bleeding nonsense, Toni.

People have the right to their ignorant beliefs but they do not have the right to kill other people in service to those ignorant beliefs.

I will not engage this issue on your false terms.

That's really rich.

 

[Trausti]

 

[Metaphor]

Because it's the scenario I chose. Drs. in the USA would perform whatever medical procedure was needed to save the person's life. Do you disagree with them?

To somebody of sound mind who said "I want to die and I don't want this surgery"? Doctors would ignore that request?

For the sole benefit of others? No. But the vaccine is benefits the receiver. Just because he's too stupid, brainwashed, or politically motivated to realize it doesn't change that.

It is solely for the benefit of others.

The justification for it is "they are plague rats and they have no right to endanger others".

If the vaccine only reduced sickness and death from COVID to the individual, but did not reduce the chances of catching it or passing it on (that is, they'd still be 'plague rats'), (presumably) nobody would force it on people. It is solely for the benefit of others that the vaccine is being injected into unwilling people.

Just as the person who wants to commit suicide has deluded himself that he doesn't want to remain living the vaccine denier has deluded himself that he can go around spreading plague with no consequences.

Some people who commit suicide have not deluded themselves about their desire to live.

 

[Metaphor]

You have the hide to defend the conspiracy theories of anti-vaxxers, by targeting for mocking those who mock them, oh defender of the automatic martyrs.

Non. That is an idiotic accusation. Defending the right of people not to have medical procedures performed on them against their will is neither defense nor approval of their beliefs, but affirmation of their humanity.

They're the ones denying the humanity of those that are around them.

I don't really care all that much about "humans"

"Humans" rape children. "Humans" eat people on occasion.

I care about people.

I've met a lot of people.

I never really want to stop hoping humans can be people, any human at all.

It is not fascist oppression to expect people to

EITHER:

Get vaccinated.

Or

Get tested, regularly, and compulsorily quarantined on a positive test for 14 days AND be denied access to certain medical services until cleared post-infection.

And that this should be enforced!

Because as people have proven, there are plenty of available vectors which are on "no cop, no stop" philosophy.

Thank you for so candidly exposing your values.

 

[Metaphor]

I certainly approve of vaccinating people against their will even if it is solely for the benefit of other people. It reduces the spread of pandemics.

Well, most of the anti-choicers believe the same. And it really is solely for the benefit of other people.

 

[Metaphor]

You have the hide to defend the conspiracy theories of anti-vaxxers, by targeting for mocking those who mock them, oh defender of the automatic martyrs.

Non. That is an idiotic accusation. Defending the right of people not to have medical procedures performed on them against their will is neither defense nor approval of their beliefs, but affirmation of their humanity.

Yup, this exact same argument can be used to justify ending mandated vaccinations for all sorts of diseases.

I'm an adult. There are no vaccines that I am forced to take against my will just to continue living in society.

 

[Metaphor]

I believe it is the triumph of optimism over hope to try have a rational discussion with someone who refers to the Prime Minister of New Zealand as "Fuhrer".

Jacinda Ardern has kept desperate NZ nationals from returning home for years and smiled like a comic book villain when admitting to creating a two-tiered society. Her delusion and cruelty will not save NZ.

 

[Hermit]

I certainly approve of vaccinating people against their will even if it is solely for the benefit of other people. It reduces the spread of pandemics.

Well, most of the anti-choicers believe the same.

What exactly is wrong with being vaccinated against one's wishes even if it is solely for the benefit of other people?

And it really is solely for the benefit of other people.

It really is not. Vaccinations also makes it less likely that the unwilling recipients themselves will be infected by the virus, it makes it more likely to be less severe if they do get infected and it makes it less likely that they will die from it.

 

[Metaphor]

What exactly is wrong with being vaccinated against one's wishes even if it is solely for the benefit of other people?

I don't know how many times I can say the same thing again and again. I do not believe the government has the right to force medical procedures on unconsenting adults.

It really is not. Vaccinations also makes it less likely that the unwilling recipients themselves will be infected by the virus, it makes it more likely to be less severe if they do get infected and it makes it less likely that they will die from it.

It really is.

Let me illustrate. If the vaccine did not protect the person getting it in any way (just as likely to catch it, just as likely to get severely ill and die) but only had positive externalities (less likely to pass it on), then the people who would force it on them now would still force it on them.

 

[Hermit]

I believe it is the triumph of optimism over hope to try have a rational discussion with someone who refers to the Prime Minister of New Zealand as "Fuhrer".

Jacinda Ardern has kept desperate NZ nationals from returning home for years and smiled like a comic book villain when admitting to creating a two-tiered society. Her delusion and cruelty will not save NZ.

Total deaths per million people:

USA          2822
Australia     177
New Zealand    11

Hooray for the land of the free. It won't be long now before the US celebrates its millionth Covid-19 death. It's a small price to pay for not living under Ardern's dictatorship.

 

[Hermit]

What exactly is wrong with being vaccinated against one's wishes even if it is solely for the benefit of other people?

I don't know how many times I can say the same thing again and again. I do not believe the government has the right to force medical procedures on unconsenting adults.

You never gave a reason for why it is not right to be vaccinated against one's wishes, though. You just keep repeating that it is not right.

It really is not. Vaccinations also makes it less likely that the unwilling recipients themselves will be infected by the virus, it makes it more likely to be less severe if they do get infected and it makes it less likely that they will die from it.

It really is.

Let me illustrate. If the vaccine did not protect the person getting it in any way (just as likely to catch it, just as likely to get severely ill and die) but only had positive externalities (less likely to pass it on), then the people who would force it on them now would still force it on them.

Wrong illustration. Unvaccinated people are five times more likely to catch the coronavirus to start with.

More details here.

 

[Patooka]

Had a trip to the supermarket earlier. Despite the indoor mask mandate still in place, went in the store without a mask, did my shopping, checked out and went on my merry way. Nobody said anything. One other guy in the store was sans mask, we let on to each other with a nod. It was a good day.

You must be so proud.

You knew the answer to that before you asked.

 

[Metaphor]

I believe it is the triumph of optimism over hope to try have a rational discussion with someone who refers to the Prime Minister of New Zealand as "Fuhrer".

Jacinda Ardern has kept desperate NZ nationals from returning home for years and smiled like a comic book villain when admitting to creating a two-tiered society. Her delusion and cruelty will not save NZ.

Total deaths per million people:

USA          2822
Australia     177
New Zealand    11

Hooray for the land of the free. It won't be long now before the US celebrates its millionth Covid-19 death. It's a small price to pay for not living under Ardern's dictatorship.

Yeah, it makes complete and total sense to compare a tiny island nation with no state, county or provincial governments to the United States.

Give me strength.

 

[Metaphor]

You never gave a reason for why it is not right to be vaccinated against one's wishes, though. You just keep repeating that it is not right.

Yes: it is not right to force medical procedures on people solely for the benefit of other people. I'm sorry if we disagree on that point. For example, I don't think governments should force women to abort their babies if the mothers don't want to.

Wrong illustration. Unvaccinated people are five times more likely to catch the coronavirus to start with.

You mean: the illustration proves my point. I said 'if' the vaccine behaved in the way I described. I am well aware it doesn't. It's a counterfactual, a thought experiment.

If the vaccine behaved in the way I described, you would still want to force it on people. It illustrates that the protective effect the vaccine has on the individual is a side effect but not important. The main effect is the benefit it has to other people.

 

[Jarhyn]

You have the hide to defend the conspiracy theories of anti-vaxxers, by targeting for mocking those who mock them, oh defender of the automatic martyrs.

Non. That is an idiotic accusation. Defending the right of people not to have medical procedures performed on them against their will is neither defense nor approval of their beliefs, but affirmation of their humanity.

They're the ones denying the humanity of those that are around them.

I don't really care all that much about "humans"

"Humans" rape children. "Humans" eat people on occasion.

I care about people.

I've met a lot of people.

I never really want to stop hoping humans can be people, any human at all.

It is not fascist oppression to expect people to

EITHER:

Get vaccinated.

Or

Get tested, regularly, and compulsorily quarantined on a positive test for 14 days AND be denied access to certain medical services until cleared post-infection.

And that this should be enforced!

Because as people have proven, there are plenty of available vectors which are on "no cop, no stop" philosophy.

Thank you for so candidly exposing your values.

The fact is that when you CHOOSE to be a burden, nobody has an obligation to let you be. They have every right to say "cut that out." And to drop you right where you are and leave you there, and if you are rocking the boat you either stop or they leave you behind in the frigid water.

There is no time for people who poke holes in the boat of our collective security just because they like the way the water bubbles up when they do.

I think that's some people's biggest fear. They know they have no joy if they have no opportunity to damage the boat.

WE have no obligation to step behind the line of people doing a Zerg Rush on our healthcare system when they are ending up there as the predictable result of their own stupidity.

Cry and whine and MOAN all you want over being asked to do something you think "only helps others", like "driving sober", we're still going to make you do it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I certainly approve of vaccinating people against their will even if it is solely for the benefit of other people. It reduces the spread of pandemics.

Well, most of the anti-choicers believe the same. And it really is solely for the benefit of other people.

Health care workers, elderly, people with cancer or other problematic conditions.

It is interesting. We went from the flu is worse to hospitals are exaggerating the deaths to I just don’t fucking care. 5 deaths is a tragedy, 125,000 is a statistic.

 

[Hermit]

I believe it is the triumph of optimism over hope to try have a rational discussion with someone who refers to the Prime Minister of New Zealand as "Fuhrer".

Jacinda Ardern has kept desperate NZ nationals from returning home for years and smiled like a comic book villain when admitting to creating a two-tiered society. Her delusion and cruelty will not save NZ.

Total deaths per million people:

USA          2822
Australia     177
New Zealand    11

Hooray for the land of the free. It won't be long now before the US celebrates its millionth Covid-19 death. It's a small price to pay for not living under Ardern's dictatorship.

Yeah, it makes complete and total sense to compare a tiny island nation with no state, county or provincial governments to the United States.

Neither the size of NZ nor the geographic location matters. The admittedly inconvenient measures by the government do. We're looking at pro rata proportions, you know? Once a virus enters a country it can spread as quickly in a population of 5 million as in one of 330 million. It so happens that it killed 11 per million in New Zealand and 2822 per million in the USA.

Have a nice day.