Police response to N.J. mall fight sparks outrage after Black teen cuffed as white teen watches

[laughing dog]

A white male police officer engaged in what appears to be a racist action. You have offered nothing but deflection.

Non. A white male police officer engaged in what some people have concluded must be a racist action.

Why I am not surprised - more pedantry and deflection.
And still no proferred alternative explanation for the apparent (to some) racist actions.

You are letting that white male cop out to hang.

 

[Metaphor]

And I note your attempt to cripple me and other women with fear of male superiority.
It’s such an obvious, worn out tactic.

Um, okay.

 

[Toni]

And I note your attempt to cripple me and other women with fear of male superiority.
It’s such an obvious, worn out tactic.

Um, okay.

No, not OK. But neither unexpected nor unusual.

 

[Metaphor]

And I note your attempt to cripple me and other women with fear of male superiority.
It’s such an obvious, worn out tactic.

Um, okay.

No, not OK. But neither unexpected nor unusual.

I said 'um, okay' as a polite way to dismiss what you said without escalating. But since you escalated, what you wrote is ridiculous, insulting, self-serving, delusional, and false. Please do not volunteer your thoughts about my motivations and thoughts, because you are consistently wrong about them, and you never take feedback on your wrongness.

 

[Gospel]

Your use of the word 'criminal' is begging the question.

What question?

Your use of the word 'victim' is begging the question.

What question?

I can't find footage without a news person talking over it so I can't say who was or was not being verbally threatening.

I had a gut feeling we weren't watching the same video but I didn't think you weren't watching a video at all.

 

[Toni]

And I note your attempt to cripple me and other women with fear of male superiority.
It’s such an obvious, worn out tactic.

Um, okay.

No, not OK. But neither unexpected nor unusual.

I said 'um, okay' as a polite way to dismiss what you said without escalating. But since you escalated, what you wrote is ridiculous, insulting, self-serving, delusional, and false. Please do not volunteer your thoughts about my motivations and thoughts, because you are consistently wrong about them, and you never take feedback on your wrongness.

Why not? You feel more than free to remind me that men are my superiors in terms of force/brute strength.

Exactly what is your purpose in reminding me that men are usually physically stronger than women?

 

[Gospel]

You are implying that the black kid was the white boy's "victim" in the fight between them. The video footage I saw does not imply one was a victim over the other. At best, they were both victims of assault. But I do not regard as one boy being a victim over the other. Instead it was escalating tension that reached a fight point.

In the video I watched, the black kid says let's step outside and talk to the officials just before slapping the criminal's hand away and saying "get your hand out of my face". Is there a part in the video you watched where the hand slapping occurred? Because you should be able to hear him say that. In fact, he said step outside multiple times before saying it a final time and clarifying why he wanted to step outside. I have no idea what video you're watching and I'd share the one I watched but you'd see who posted it on Twitter and likely refuse. It's the black kid's lawyer.

 

[Gospel]

BTW Metaphor in New Jersey you're guilty of harassment if you subjected someone else to striking, kicking, shoving or offensive touching, or threatened to do so.

The underlined part is pertinent to my claim.

 

[Gospel]

I'll post the tweet just ignore the source and check the video. I'd like to add that he may have said individual instead of official. For example "let's go talk to the individual". Either way sounded like he wanted to get something clarified but the criminal continued behaving as if he wasn't there to talk.

 

[Gospel]

Ok, I also have to add that he may actually be saying "You are talking to the individual" meaning I am the one you're looking to pick a fight with so let's step outside? Again the criminal didn't seem interested in anything he had to say so...

Or he can be responding to something the criminal said that he interpreted as questioning his individuality and he clarified by saying that "you are (indeed) talking to an individual?

 

[Metaphor]

What question?

To beg the question means to assume your conclusions in your premises.

You called the white boy a criminal without justifying why he was more a criminal than the black boy.

I had a gut feeling we weren't watching the same video but I didn't think you weren't watching a video at all.

I watched the video in the CNN link in the OP. I searched for 'nj mall raw footage' but still did not find any without newscaster commentary talking all over it.

 

[Metaphor]

BTW Metaphor in New Jersey you're guilty of harassment if you subjected someone else to striking, kicking, shoving or offensive touching, or threatened to do so.

The underlined part is pertinent to my claim.

So what made Franco guilty of that but not Husain?

 

[Metaphor]

Why not? You feel more than free to remind me that men are my superiors in terms of force/brute strength.

Exactly what is your purpose in reminding me that men are usually physically stronger than women?

Because I believe the female cop's reaction to Franco is partly explained by Franco being bigger and almost certainly stronger than her, a fact which you appear to find impossible to entertain.

 

[fromderinside]

I agree with Gospel.

Take Russia vs Democracies as an example. Russia just punched Democracies by breaking international negotiated settlement by moving in to Ukraine on false pretext.

This is their second punch. The first was taking a threatening stance at Ukraine border.

Time to counter punch with sanctions.

 

[Metaphor]

Ok, I also have to add that he may actually be saying "You are talking to the individual" meaning I am the one you're looking to pick a fight with so let's step outside? Again the criminal didn't seem interested in anything he had to say so...

Or he can be responding to something the criminal said that he interpreted as questioning his individuality and he clarified by saying that "you are (indeed) talking to an individual?

It is very difficult for me to tell who is saying what in that video, even with the newscaster commentary removed. It still begins in media res and all I can hear is Husain (I think) saying 'we can go outside right now, go outside right now', which is what Americans say in movies when they challenge someone to a fight.

 

[Toni]

Why not? You feel more than free to remind me that men are my superiors in terms of force/brute strength.

Exactly what is your purpose in reminding me that men are usually physically stronger than women?

Because I believe the female cop's reaction to Franco is partly explained by Franco being bigger and almost certainly stronger than her, a fact which you appear to find impossible to entertain.

Well I believed my eyes: She definitely had more weight to her.

Besides, why are you all upset that one officer managed to subdue one of the boys without throwing him to the ground and cuffing him—and didn’t need her partner to help her? She didn’t need to use brute force, which apparently you think is necessary abs the only kind of strength that counts, Or are you just disappointed not to see both kids thrown to the ground with a cop or two kneeling on them, putting them in cuffs?

Maybe you’re right: she looked real weak. Thank god there was a big strong man to help her.[/sarcasm].

 

[Gospel]

BTW Metaphor in New Jersey you're guilty of harassment if you subjected someone else to striking, kicking, shoving or offensive touching, or threatened to do so.

The underlined part is pertinent to my claim.

So what made Franco guilty of that but not Husain?

Both were talking until one of them put their hand in the other's face (which is assault according to New Jersey Law)



One defend himself by moving the hand from his face (he was justified because that is considered assault)


And in response the Criminal pushed him (which is assault under New Jersey Law).

 

[Loren Pechtel]

My personal interpretation of the two officers by gender: The female officer sat the white boy on the bench somewhat forcefully but not out of line with what any parent might do separating spatting children. She sat next to him momentarily, patted him on the chest and then went to help her male partner. The way she acted with the white boy seemed like how most parents and most women would act with most teens when breaking up a fight. Separate, calm down.

This. She put one on the bench, saw that he didn't appear to want to fight anymore so she turned to see if her partner needed help.

She saw her partner on top of the other boy, who is black, and immediately went to help her partner. She may/probably did not see exactly what transpired between the male officer (white, I think) and the black boy who was on bottom when the police intervened. She may have assumed that her partner needed extra help because the boy he had was fighting against the officer's attempts to restrain him. The video shows that the boy was NOT resisting or fighting back. I can't hear what is being said but from my angle, my perception is that her intent was to separate and calm down the boys and to back up her partner. The male officer seemed to have made an assumption that the black boy was going to resist./was resisting/was violent and that perception was not based at all on what was shown in the video. The male officer seemed to show racial bias. The female officer was backing up her partner automatically, and I assume, per training.

Agreed. An officer entering a situation (and she is entering in this case--she was originally dealing with the white boy and didn't know the details of what the black boy was doing) can't be always figuring out the situation independently, the initial reaction had to be to trust the judgment of other officers that know more about what's going on.

I'm not sure it's racism, though--this could be a male/female difference. He expected more trouble than she did.

Obviously, kids should not fight and if they do, should not do so at a mall. But I am struck, once again, at how normal, if less than ideal, teenage behavior is criminalized. What was the need to arrest either boy? Separate/calm down: yes. Verify no weapons: I recognize that this is necessary nowadays. Escort off of mall property/call BOTH sets of parents? Appropriate. Even if you were certain one boy was the aggressor and the other boy was the victim, one would think that officers would call both sets of parents to ensure that the victim gets to leave safely and is not set upon by the aggressor and/or his friends.

The first order of business should be to try to determine why they were fighting. Mutual combat or was one acting in self defense? Someone acting in self defense shouldn't be punished.

 

[Metaphor]

Well I believed my eyes: She definitely had more weight to her.

I'm sorry: did you just say that you think the female cop weighed more than Franco? I want you to confirm that is what you said and what you think.

Besides, why are you all upset that one officer managed to subdue one of the boys without throwing him to the ground and cuffing him—and didn’t need her partner to help her?

Who said I was upset?

Maybe you’re right: she looked real weak. Thank his there was a big string man to help her.[/sarcasm].

As insane as feminist institutional capture has gotten, I do know that men will step up when they are needed, and that includes carrying unconscious bodies out of a burning building where women do not possess the strength to do so.

 

[Toni]

My personal interpretation of the two officers by gender: The female officer sat the white boy on the bench somewhat forcefully but not out of line with what any parent might do separating spatting children. She sat next to him momentarily, patted him on the chest and then went to help her male partner. The way she acted with the white boy seemed like how most parents and most women would act with most teens when breaking up a fight. Separate, calm down.

This. She put one on the bench, saw that he didn't appear to want to fight anymore so she turned to see if her partner needed help.

She saw her partner on top of the other boy, who is black, and immediately went to help her partner. She may/probably did not see exactly what transpired between the male officer (white, I think) and the black boy who was on bottom when the police intervened. She may have assumed that her partner needed extra help because the boy he had was fighting against the officer's attempts to restrain him. The video shows that the boy was NOT resisting or fighting back. I can't hear what is being said but from my angle, my perception is that her intent was to separate and calm down the boys and to back up her partner. The male officer seemed to have made an assumption that the black boy was going to resist./was resisting/was violent and that perception was not based at all on what was shown in the video. The male officer seemed to show racial bias. The female officer was backing up her partner automatically, and I assume, per training.

Agreed. An officer entering a situation (and she is entering in this case--she was originally dealing with the white boy and didn't know the details of what the black boy was doing) can't be always figuring out the situation independently, the initial reaction had to be to trust the judgment of other officers that know more about what's going on.

I'm not sure it's racism, though--this could be a male/female difference. He expected more trouble than she did.

Obviously, kids should not fight and if they do, should not do so at a mall. But I am struck, once again, at how normal, if less than ideal, teenage behavior is criminalized. What was the need to arrest either boy? Separate/calm down: yes. Verify no weapons: I recognize that this is necessary nowadays. Escort off of mall property/call BOTH sets of parents? Appropriate. Even if you were certain one boy was the aggressor and the other boy was the victim, one would think that officers would call both sets of parents to ensure that the victim gets to leave safely and is not set upon by the aggressor and/or his friends.

The first order of business should be to try to determine why they were fighting. Mutual combat or was one acting in self defense? Someone acting in self defense shouldn't be punished.

I hear what you’re saying but I also remember you don’t have kids. Getting sucked into a blow by blow of who did what and when is ….crazy making.