barbos
Contributor
Damn, russians outsmarted germans! That does not happen very often.
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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
- Start date
Hermit
Cantankerous grump
What theory? The fact that Kiev existed centuries before Moscow? That fact does not determine what plot of land belongs to whom. Such matters are ultimately decided at the point of a gun. The event is papered over with a suitable story aimed at justifying it. The gun (metaphorically speaking) explains why countries are frequently overrun, have their boundaries changed or disappear altogether. The stories are epiphenomena.Yes it existed and it belongs to Russia. According to this theory, ironically.Not at all. The point made by whoever created this array of pictures is that Kiev existed for centuries before Moscow. Though depicting the churches and monasteries in their present state is a bit cheeky, the point it makes is valid. Kiev was known to have existed as a commercial centre as early as the 5th century. The first document mentioning Moscow appeared in 1147.You are trying to create an impression that these buildings are 1000 years old.Ukraine belonged to Russia from the start?
Yeah, sure.
barbos
Contributor
Yes, Russian capital moved from Kiev to Moscow
Farther from the Reich.
Can be moved back to Kiev
Hermit
Cantankerous grump
Keep spinning your stories. Putin loves you.Yes, Russian capital moved from Kiev to Moscow
Farther from the Reich.
Can be moved back to Kiev
barbos
Contributor
I am not spinning, I am making fun at your spinning.
Hermit
Cantankerous grump
Giving reasons other than the power of the gun is spinning stories.
At least Stalin was open about the fact that this was the factor that mattered. When Pierre Laval asked him whether he could do anything with Russian Catholics to help Laval win favour with the Pope, Stalin replied sarcastically: "The Pope! How many divisions has he got?"
barbos
Contributor
Stop spewing random crap.
Hermit
Cantankerous grump
Oh, the irony.
barbos
Contributor
On you.Oh, the irony.
barbos
Contributor
I have been waiting to post this:Mongolia has entered the chat...
And Italians actually own most of Europe, much of the Middle East, and Northern Africa as a legacy from the Roman Empire.
zorq
Veteran Member
I was amused by Putin's opinions he gave in his speech yesterday. He insists that Ukraine doesn't have a national identity. He says that Ukraine shouldn't even be a country because it is all Russian already. But in the same speech he insists that he "had no choice" but to recognize the breakaway regions because of the horrible persecution the people there were suffering under. You know, because they speak Russian and not Ukranian and have a Russian culture... Irony.
The evil Ukranians with their identity, culture and language (that is all really "Russian" according to Putin) are forcing people in Ukraine to use Ukranian language and culture (Just greater Russian culture according to Putin) and this is a huge tragedy that justifies Putin sending in troops to protect the "Russian" civilians (who are presumably adults and have CHOSEN to continue living in what has been a war zone for 8 years in a country they must "hate" for the persecutions they suffer)
It's good for a chuckle for me, but I wonder how there are so may people in Russia who eat up this sort of transparent and flimsy nonsense. But then I stop laughing because it is all so serious.
He's also pitching himself in the role of "Defender of an Expanding Motherland" If your territory is expanding it is because you are ATTACKING not DEFENDING.
LOL. But it's not funny.
The evil Ukranians with their identity, culture and language (that is all really "Russian" according to Putin) are forcing people in Ukraine to use Ukranian language and culture (Just greater Russian culture according to Putin) and this is a huge tragedy that justifies Putin sending in troops to protect the "Russian" civilians (who are presumably adults and have CHOSEN to continue living in what has been a war zone for 8 years in a country they must "hate" for the persecutions they suffer)
It's good for a chuckle for me, but I wonder how there are so may people in Russia who eat up this sort of transparent and flimsy nonsense. But then I stop laughing because it is all so serious.
He's also pitching himself in the role of "Defender of an Expanding Motherland" If your territory is expanding it is because you are ATTACKING not DEFENDING.
LOL. But it's not funny.
barbos
Contributor
For the record, I have not listened to it. I heard some hardcore russian patriots describe contents of the speech in one phrase "We've had enough!"
Anyway, you should save your irony for something better.
Russian language war is weird. A lot of these pro-ukrainian language patriots do not actually speak ukrainian very well or at all. Ukrainian Army famously use russian. There was a big scandal at the Olympics when athletes were ordered to use ukrainian (even internally), some publicly refused and said we are using russian and that's the end of it.
The reason for this is simple, most active and insane ukrainian
The current Government will have another maidan or at least lose elections if they decide to ease up on language. They are stuck with it the same way republican party is stuck with trumpism. In reality russian is widely used, it's just these incidents with these crazy imbeciles which happens from time to time.
The other languages (hungarian, romanian) are in somewhat similar situation. At one point they made a bizarre distinction between EU languages (hungarian, romanian) and the non EU languages (russian), but in practice they ban these too. They are afraid of losing these territories as well, and they are not wrong. Hungary and Romania (I think too) distributes their passports in these places the same way Russia does. Of course CNN does not mention that at all, it goes against official narrative.
Ukraine as a Country reminds me a Cargo Cult.
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barbos
Contributor
More to language issues.
I already mentioned that story about russian-ukrainian-english.
There is a funny video of Ukrainian government meeting. At the time there were a lot of georgians in ukrainian government.
So georgians obviously speak georgian, russian and english (all US educated and vetted)
Ukrainians all speak russian, some speak ukrainian, and one (Yatsenyuk, US vetted and educated) speak english.
So guess what language these clowns ended up using?
Correct answer is ....... english.
You should have seen faces on ukrainians
I already mentioned that story about russian-ukrainian-english.
There is a funny video of Ukrainian government meeting. At the time there were a lot of georgians in ukrainian government.
So georgians obviously speak georgian, russian and english (all US educated and vetted)
Ukrainians all speak russian, some speak ukrainian, and one (Yatsenyuk, US vetted and educated) speak english.
So guess what language these clowns ended up using?
Correct answer is ....... english.
You should have seen faces on ukrainians
zorq
Veteran Member
I don't doubt that some of Ukraine's laws are unfairly burdensome for portions of their population. While I understand the motivation for some of these laws, they are indeed disgraceful. I am merely juxtaposing Putin's insistence that Ukrainian culture is really Russian culture and Putin's lamenting of the "genocide" of "Russians" "forced" to adopt Ukrainian culture.
barbos
Contributor
Who exactly are you to not doubt anything?
Do you work at CNN?
And burdensome is not correct word here. They are insane and designed to placate the nazi base and harass at will I would say probably 70% of population. In practice these laws are not followed. 100% of government critters use russian at home and when camera is off.
Come on, when president during speech forgets ukrainian word and then quietly asks his assistant ..... in russian about it. Mic is ON.
Putin is not wrong, both facts can be (and actually are) true at the same time.
zorq
Veteran Member
A person can't acknowledge both "facts" and not see the irony without suffering from some serious cognitive dissonance.
barbos
Contributor
Cognitive dissonance is all yours. In Putin's view current Ukrainian government does not even represent the will of majority of ukrainian people.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Unless every free nation doesn't immediately send troops to help Ukraine take back the lost territory, (including Crimea) their governments all deserve to be fired and replaced by people who value democratic freedoms. We need to come down as hard on Putin now as we came down on Hitler, back in the day. It'll be less painful in the long run.
My two cents.
My two cents.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Eventually that will happen but not until Putin is dead and his boner is gone.
barbos
Contributor
Cool, are ready to send troops to Serbia to help to take back lost territory (Kosovo)?
No, thank, keep your two cents.