Police response to N.J. mall fight sparks outrage after Black teen cuffed as white teen watches

[Gospel]

I can appreciate why many people see a skin color difference, assign it as a cause, and then apply every affect to that cause. It's pretty kneejerk.

Not really. Can you provide any explanation for why the officer doesn't detain the other teen, who actually gets up from his seat? The person on the top is typically understood as the aggressor.

The white kid could have actually run away at that point.

The cops didn't even give a shit about his presence at that point because neither of them even noticed he got up. The police were both laser-focused on the black kid & it takes the land of makebelieve to answer why without calling it racism.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You really have a thing for making stuff up.

With little information to go on there's a ton of that going on in this thread.

You keep saying that but the OP article was spot on what happened. The "little information" is where people are trying to hide their doubt on what occurred.

The only real additional info that wasn't available is that the light color skin kid isn't "white".

 

[Metaphor]

Not really. Can you provide any explanation for why the officer doesn't detain the other teen, who actually gets up from his seat? The person on the top is typically understood as the aggressor.

Husain was detained. In fact, he stood up in order to offer to get cuffed.

 

[Gospel]

Husain was detained. In fact, he stood up in order to offer to get cuffed.

Yeah, asking to be detained when you're already detained makes a lot of sense.

 

[Metaphor]

Husain was detained. In fact, he stood up in order to offer to get cuffed.

Yeah, asking to be detained when you're already detained makes a lot of sense.

No. He was already detained. He was asking to be cuffed. Husain explained in an interview that that was why he stood up.

 

[ZiprHead]

Husain was detained. In fact, he stood up in order to offer to get cuffed.

Yeah, asking to be detained when you're already detained makes a lot of sense.

No. He was already detained. He was asking to be cuffed. Husain explained in an interview that that was why he stood up.

Okay, so why wasn't he cuffed?

 

[Rhea]

There they go again with the semantic distraction.


It’s a tactic. See? I can avoid talking about the wildly disparate treatment by complaining that your specific words are not perfect.


But

Can you provide any explanation for why the officer doesn't detain similarly treat the other teen, who actually gets up from his seat? The person on the top is typically understood as the aggressor.

The actual question is one they don’t want to answer. Everyone knows what the actual question is.

But the distract and derail tactic is pulled out yet again.

 

[Metaphor]

Husain was detained. In fact, he stood up in order to offer to get cuffed.

Yeah, asking to be detained when you're already detained makes a lot of sense.

No. He was already detained. He was asking to be cuffed. Husain explained in an interview that that was why he stood up.

Okay, so why wasn't he cuffed?

I don't know. I can't read the minds of the cops on the scene, though it was obvious at that point he did not present a flight risk.

 

[Gospel]

I don't know. I can't read the minds of the cops on the scene, though it was obvious at that point he did not present a flight risk.

Do you think them taking their focus off Husain and doing what amounts to putting their trust in Husain that he would stay put, or trust that he (Husain) would not attack them or Z'yke while they were handcuffing Z'yke? I get that it's not racism to you, I can live with that (it's normal to me). The question is do you think that was a smart/correct/right thing for the police to do for their own safety and others?

They literally took their eyes off him a substantial amount of times, enough time for Husain to do just about anything like grab an officer's gun.

Edit: Since people love the land of make-believe figured I'd visit there myself.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Husain was detained. In fact, he stood up in order to offer to get cuffed.

Yeah, asking to be detained when you're already detained makes a lot of sense.

No. He was already detained. He was asking to be cuffed. Husain explained in an interview that that was why he stood up.

Okay, so why wasn't he cuffed?

I don't know. I can't read the minds--

You are assuming that they had minds.

 

[TomC]

I don't know. I can't read the minds of the cops on the scene, though it was obvious at that point he did not present a flight risk.

Do you think them taking their focus off Husain and doing what amounts to putting their trust in Husain that he would stay put, or trust that he (Husain) would not attack them or Z'yke while they were handcuffing Z'yke? I get that it's not racism to you, I can live with that (it's normal to me). The question is do you think that was a smart/correct/right thing for the police to do for their own safety and others?

They literally took their eyes off him a substantial amount of times, enough time for Husain to do just about anything like grab an officer's gun.

Edit: Since people love the land of make-believe figured I'd visit there myself.

You mean the one where Husain offered to get handcuffed? What world do you live in?

Maybe now that Franco isn't white they all look alike?
Tom

 

[Metaphor]

Do you think them taking their focus off Husain and doing what amounts to putting their trust in Husain that he would stay put, or trust that he (Husain) would not attack them or Z'yke while they were handcuffing Z'yke? I get that it's not racism to you, I can live with that (it's normal to me). The question is do you think that was a smart/correct/right thing for the police to do for their own safety and others?

I didn't even say it wasn't racism. I said that the actions in the video are consistent with a number of scenarios.

The female cop took her focus off Husain and I have no idea whether it was the 'smart/correct/right' thing to do, but there is no evidence that there was a bad outcome from it. Husain could have fled (physically) but he didn't. So it seems to me that any implicit decision that Husain did not present a flight or attack risk was justified.

They literally took their eyes off him a substantial amount of times, enough time for Husain to do just about anything like grab an officer's gun.

Edit: Since people love the land of make-believe figured I'd visit there myself.

Well, yes, I suppose he could have done that, though Toni believes the female cop is more than a match for any man, so if he'd tried to take the female cop's gun she probably would have produced a samurai sword and de-limbed him Kill Bill style.

But he didn't do that.

 

[TomC]

Husain is the really black kid.
Franco is well...
less black.

Let's get our facts straight.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

So it seems to me that any implicit decision that Husain did not present a flight or attack risk was justified.

Nice, this is progress. Were they justified in how they handled Z'yke?

 

[Metaphor]

So it seems to me that any implicit decision that Husain did not present a flight or attack risk was justified.

Nice, this is progress. Were they justified in how they handled Z'yke?

I do not agree that 'they' handled Z'yke Husain as a unit. The male cop focused on subduing Husain and the female cop focused on subduing Franco.

It is ambiguous to me if the female cop's knee is on Husain or not when she goes to assist her partner, so I am not willing to make a judgment call on that.

And whether the male cop's handling of Husain was 'justified' or not (in terms of police procedure and the particular circumstances), I don't know. But even if it wasn't, it doesn't make it racist (though it could be).

It seems to be taken for granted that the male cop even knew Husain was black before he tackled him. It's obvious to us, who saw the argument footage beforehand, but I don't know that it would have been obvious to the male cop until after he had already tackled Husain. Franco is larger than Husain and was on top of him before he was pulled off by the female cop.

 

[Gospel]

I don't know. I can't read the minds of the cops on the scene, though it was obvious at that point he did not present a flight risk.

Do you think them taking their focus off Husain and doing what amounts to putting their trust in Husain that he would stay put, or trust that he (Husain) would not attack them or Z'yke while they were handcuffing Z'yke? I get that it's not racism to you, I can live with that (it's normal to me). The question is do you think that was a smart/correct/right thing for the police to do for their own safety and others?

They literally took their eyes off him a substantial amount of times, enough time for Husain to do just about anything like grab an officer's gun.

Edit: Since people love the land of make-believe figured I'd visit there myself.

You mean the one where Husain offered to get handcuffed? What world do you live in?

Maybe now that Franco isn't white they all look alike?
Tom

Whatever works for you to answer the question.

 

[Gospel]

I do not agree that 'they' handled Z'yke Husain as a unit. The male cop focused on subduing Husain and the female cop focused on subduing Franco.

The female cop focused on subduing Franco and then after deciding that she no longer needed to focus on Franco turned her focus to Husain You see her act of turning her focus towards Husain as her assisting her partner which is also the correct way of saying it.

Next question, do you believe the officer was a psychic? Do you believe the officer had reason to believe Franco would not take off running? If so what's the evidence? Franko's word? I understand that he did not after the fact. The question is at the moment the female officer decided to turn her focus away from Franco what would have given her the certainty that he would not take off or cause any other trouble?

It is ambiguous to me if the female cop's knee is on Husain or not when she goes to assist her partner, so I am not willing to make a judgment call on that.

When she begins to assist her partner, are they not at that time handling Husain as a unit? I understand that the male officer overreacted, and the female officer was "just doing her job"

Side note: The issue I have is not about the knee. I mentioned the knee in light of a recent controversial case involving a police officer to imply that just maybe it would be in an officer's best interest not to find themselves in a position where they can be perceived as treating a black person unfairly with the "knee thing" as an element. I am not debating whether or not she had her knee on Husain. Just clarifying why I mentioned it.

And whether the male cop's handling of Husain was 'justified' or not (in terms of police procedure and the particular circumstances), I don't know. But even if it wasn't, it doesn't make it racist (though it could be).

I respect that.

It seems to be taken for granted that the male cop even knew Husain was black before he tackled him. It's obvious to us, who saw the argument footage beforehand, but I don't know that it would have been obvious to the male cop until after he had already tackled Husain. Franco is larger than Husain and was on top of him before he was pulled off by the female cop.

Actually, if you look at the footage again, you can see that the male officer actually pushed Franco into the Female officer to get to Husain. This indicates that he saw Husain beforehand. It's is indeed possible at that moment he engaged Franco he didn't see the color of Husain's skin.

After Franko was flung towards the female officer could the male officer have possibly seen Husain's skin color at that time?
When the male officer preceded to aggressively wrestle with a nonresisting Husain did he see the color of his skin at that time?
When the female officer came over to assist him with putting handcuffs on a nonresisting Husain did he see the color of his skin then?

Why did he need assistance handcuffing someone who was not resisting?
Is there a reason the male officer didn't ask his female partner to keep an eye on Franco? Was the male officer a psychic too?

 

[Metaphor]

The female cop focused on subduing Franco and then after deciding that she no longer needed to focus on Franco turned her focus to Husain You see her act of turning her focus towards Husain as her assisting her partner which is also the correct way of saying it.

Next question, do you believe the officer was a psychic? Do you believe the officer had reason to believe Franco would not take off running? If so what's the evidence? Franko's word? I understand that he did not after the fact. The question is at the moment the female officer decided to turn her focus away from Franco what would have given her the certainty that he would not take off or cause any other trouble?

I told you, I don't know. I don't know if Franco signalled no resistance verbally or with his body language after he was put on the couch. I think when the female cop left him on the couch and put her hand on him, it seems like she is signalling/saying 'stay there'. I don't know if she would have done the same if Husain had been on the couch and behaved in the same way.

I do know that some people seem to be criticising her for this behaviour while others are praising her.

His complete compliance, including offering to get cuffed, is consistent with the female cop correctly ascertaining he was not a flight risk.

When she begins to assist her partner, are they not at that time handling Husain as a unit? I understand that the male officer overreacted, and the female officer was "just doing her job"

Comparing the female officer to cops that watched another cop kill a suspect seems a wee bit on the nose to me.

Actually, if you look at the footage again, you can see that the male officer actually pushed Franco into the Female officer to get to Husain.

That is not what I see. The female officer came in from the left in front of the couch (relative to camera) and grabbed Franco before the male officer got there (approaching from a different direction, from the back of the right-hand side of the couch) and helped Franco off Husain by assisting her pull by pushing Franco. When he pushed Husain to the ground, he had just 'handed off' Franco to the female officer. At that stage, it seems to me it is entirely reasonable he did not see Husain's skin colour.

This indicates that he saw Husain beforehand. It's is indeed possible at that moment he engaged Franco he didn't see the color of Husain's skin.

I do not have time to do a frame-by-frame analysis, but the female officer appears to have gotten there a split second earlier and she grabbed Franco by the back of the jumper to pull him off Husain. The male officer came in from a different direction and assisted the pull by pushing and then immediately turned his attention to Husain. Husain's skin colour would have become obvious when the male officer saw his hands and face but I do not believe it was obvious before then--after the tackle had already happened.

After Franko was flung towards the female officer could the male officer have possibly seen Husain's skin color at that time?

He could have, but at the moment Husain was tackled by the cop, I do not believe so.

When the male officer preceded to aggressively wrestle with a nonresisting Husain did he see the color of his skin at that time?

There is a point where Husain lifts his head and his face can be seen, and presumably the officer also saw the colour of Husain's hands.

When the female officer came over to assist him with putting handcuffs on a nonresisting Husain did he see the color of his skin then?

Yes I would imagine so.

Why did he need assistance handcuffing someone who was not resisting?

Husain was definitely 'resisting' early on. He was struggling violently against the male cop. However, I do not think he was 'resisting arrest' resisting. I think Franco was on top of him one split second and then someone else was on top of him and he didn't know who it was. So I don't 'blame' Husain in any way but I also understand why the cop subdued him.

Is there a reason the male officer didn't ask his female partner to keep an eye on Franco? Was the male officer a psychic too?

I do not know what words were spoken, if any, before the female cop went over to assist, or if the male cop asked for assistance.

EDIT: There is also that boy in the white, orange-soled sneakers with his legs stretched out who is between the camera and the fight/cop intervention, obscuring the interaction, for much of the crucial runtime. Get out of the way dickhead!

 

[Gospel]

Comparing the female officer to cops that watched another cop kill a suspect seems a wee bit on the nose to me.

I'm not comparing her to the actual officers. The point is US law does not care if an officer is "just doing their job" or "just assisting their partner" if a crime is committed.

 

[Metaphor]

Comparing the female officer to cops that watched another cop kill a suspect seems a wee bit on the nose to me.

I'm not comparing her to the actual officers. The point is US law does not care if an officer is "just doing their job" or "just assisting their partner" if a crime is committed.

What crime was committed?