Police response to N.J. mall fight sparks outrage after Black teen cuffed as white teen watches

[Gospel]

Husain was definitely 'resisting' early on. He was struggling violently against the male cop. However, I do not think he was 'resisting arrest' resisting. I think Franco was on top of him one split second and then someone else was on top of him and he didn't know who it was. So I don't 'blame' Husain in any way but I also understand why the cop subdued him.

Why did they not take the same approach with Franco? Upon contact with Franco, Franco was in the act of throwing punches. Why did the officers not interpret Franco's actions as resisting?

 

[Gospel]

What crime was committed?

This is where our opinions diverge. I believe Husain's Civil Rights were violated.

 

[Metaphor]

Why did they not take the same approach with Franco? Upon contact with Franco, Franco was in the act of throwing punches. Why did the officers not interpret Franco's actions as resisting?

Can't you see with your own eyes? When Franco was pulled/thrown off, and put on the couch, he was instantly, almost cartoonishly compliant. He wasn't throwing any punches after he was pulled off and placed on the couch.

I say cartoonish because when Franco got up from the couch some people interpreted that as a hostile action, when in fact he was coming forward to volunteer to be cuffed.

 

[Gospel]

Can't you see with your own eyes? When Franco was pulled/thrown off, and put on the couch, he was instantly, almost cartoonishly compliant. He wasn't throwing any punches after he was pulled off and placed on the couch.

The male officer and shortly after Female officer as well didn't give Husain an opportunity to comply and in fact proceeded to handcuff a nonresisting Husain who was also cartoonishly compliant. You seem to be under the impression that there is some sort of difference between Franco and Husain the moment the officers made contact. What was the difference?

 

[Metaphor]

The male officer and shortly after Female officer as well didn't give Husain an opportunity to comply and in fact proceeded to handcuff a nonresisting Husain who was also cartoonishly compliant.

But he wasn't. He was struggling, or at least that's what it looks like to me. Again, although a number of people on this thread appear to believe the evidence from the footage is as clear as crystal, it simply isn't.

But, if he was not struggling, and the police officer kept him on the ground and cuffed him, there is simply no way to claim that was only because Husain was black and the police officer is racist. Additionally, the female cop did not witness what went down after the male cop got on top of Husain. When she looked at the situation, she would have seen Husain beginning to get cuffed and she went over to assist. Maybe it is procedure to cuff people who were once resisting but are now compliant. Maybe the male cop was right to cuff Husain and the female cop was wrong (or at least not procedure) not to cuff Franco.

The difference between the two boys after Franco was thrown off was that the female officer attended to Franco and the male officer attended to Husain.

 

[Gospel]

But he wasn't. He was struggling, or at least that's what it looks like to me.

And that is why we're having this discussion. What made Husain's and Frankos any different? When the male and female officer touched Franko he didn't stop fighting any faster than Husain did? Why was Husain's movement considered struggling upon contact and Franco's not?

 

[Gospel]

The difference between the two boys after Franco was thrown off was that the female officer attended to Franco and the male officer attended to Husain.

The female officer also attended to Husain and left Franco unattended. Was Husain resisting when the female officer went to assist? If the male officer asked for her assistance with a compliant Husain, why did the male officer who was in overreaction mode not think, "hey, let's put cuffs on Franco because I'm overreacting". Instead, we have confirmation from Franco that he was never handcuffed.

 

[Metaphor]

But he wasn't. He was struggling, or at least that's what it looks like to me.

And that is why we're having this discussion. What made Husain's and Frankos any different? When the male and female officer touched Franko he didn't stop fighting any faster than Husain did? Why was Husain's movement considered struggling upon contact and Franco's not?

I've already said this multiple times and I don't know how else to say it. Husain and Franco were different in any number of ways. Franco was bigger and on top, Franco was pulled off and away because he was on top. The female officer got to Franco's side first and she attended to him.

When the female officer pulled Franco off Husain, she put him on the couch and he did not struggle.

When the male officer got on top of Husain, he was struggling (as it appeared to me).

I do not see Franco 'struggling' with the female cop. He is pulled off and sat down on the couch. That takes a fraction of a second. He does nothing after that.

But even if the female cop reacted differently to her perception of 'struggling' than the male cop did, that does not mean either reaction was racist.

 

[Metaphor]

The female officer also attended to Husain and left Franco unattended. Was Husain resisting when the female officer went to assist? If the male officer asked for her assistance with a compliant Husain, why did the male officer who was in overreaction mode not think, "hey, let's put cuffs on Franco because I'm overreacting". Instead, we have confirmation from Franco that he was never handcuffed.

Husain doesn't look like he is resisting when the female officer comes over, no.

As I already said, I don't know procedure and I don't know that somebody who is compliant right now means they won't or shouldn't be cuffed. I don't know if the female cop should have cuffed Franco. I don't know what the male cop thought about Franco. Perhaps he thought Franco was compliant and it was the female cop's judgment call to make. Perhaps he didn't know Franco wasn't cuffed. Perhaps he didn't call over the female cop at all.

I don't know. And with the amount of unknowns, I also don't know whether any actions happened solely because Husain was dark-skinned. I don't know what the police officers were thinking. I don't know why the female cop reacted to her suspect differently than the male cop did to his suspect. I don't know what was said between the cops. I don't know what the cops were told before they arrived on the scene.

I don't know these things and I am not willing to condemn people just because some people are convinced they do know.

 

[Gospel]

Thanks for your time.

 

[laughing dog]

The female officer also attended to Husain and left Franco unattended. Was Husain resisting when the female officer went to assist? If the male officer asked for her assistance with a compliant Husain, why did the male officer who was in overreaction mode not think, "hey, let's put cuffs on Franco because I'm overreacting". Instead, we have confirmation from Franco that he was never handcuffed.

Husain doesn't look like he is resisting when the female officer comes over, no.

As I already said, I don't know procedure and I don't know that somebody who is compliant right now means they won't or shouldn't be cuffed. I don't know if the female cop should have cuffed Franco. I don't know what the male cop thought about Franco. Perhaps he thought Franco was compliant and it was the female cop's judgment call to make. Perhaps he didn't know Franco wasn't cuffed. Perhaps he didn't call over the female cop at all.

I don't know. And with the amount of unknowns, I also don't know whether any actions happened solely because Husain was dark-skinned. I don't know what the police officers were thinking. I don't know why the female cop reacted to her suspect differently than the male cop did to his suspect. I don't know what was said between the cops. I don't know what the cops were told before they arrived on the scene.

I don't know these things and I am not willing to condemn people just because some people are convinced they do know.

Most people who are that ignorant zbout a topic don’t opine about it.

 

[Metaphor]

The female officer also attended to Husain and left Franco unattended. Was Husain resisting when the female officer went to assist? If the male officer asked for her assistance with a compliant Husain, why did the male officer who was in overreaction mode not think, "hey, let's put cuffs on Franco because I'm overreacting". Instead, we have confirmation from Franco that he was never handcuffed.

Husain doesn't look like he is resisting when the female officer comes over, no.

As I already said, I don't know procedure and I don't know that somebody who is compliant right now means they won't or shouldn't be cuffed. I don't know if the female cop should have cuffed Franco. I don't know what the male cop thought about Franco. Perhaps he thought Franco was compliant and it was the female cop's judgment call to make. Perhaps he didn't know Franco wasn't cuffed. Perhaps he didn't call over the female cop at all.

I don't know. And with the amount of unknowns, I also don't know whether any actions happened solely because Husain was dark-skinned. I don't know what the police officers were thinking. I don't know why the female cop reacted to her suspect differently than the male cop did to his suspect. I don't know what was said between the cops. I don't know what the cops were told before they arrived on the scene.

I don't know these things and I am not willing to condemn people just because some people are convinced they do know.

Most people who are that ignorant zbout a topic don’t opine about it.

Since you haven't taken a random sample, statistically I am sure you don't know that to be the case.

But others being ignorant of the same things I am has not stopped them opining freely that this incident was racism.

 

[laughing dog]

The female officer also attended to Husain and left Franco unattended. Was Husain resisting when the female officer went to assist? If the male officer asked for her assistance with a compliant Husain, why did the male officer who was in overreaction mode not think, "hey, let's put cuffs on Franco because I'm overreacting". Instead, we have confirmation from Franco that he was never handcuffed.

Husain doesn't look like he is resisting when the female officer comes over, no.

As I already said, I don't know procedure and I don't know that somebody who is compliant right now means they won't or shouldn't be cuffed. I don't know if the female cop should have cuffed Franco. I don't know what the male cop thought about Franco. Perhaps he thought Franco was compliant and it was the female cop's judgment call to make. Perhaps he didn't know Franco wasn't cuffed. Perhaps he didn't call over the female cop at all.

I don't know. And with the amount of unknowns, I also don't know whether any actions happened solely because Husain was dark-skinned. I don't know what the police officers were thinking. I don't know why the female cop reacted to her suspect differently than the male cop did to his suspect. I don't know what was said between the cops. I don't know what the cops were told before they arrived on the scene.

I don't know these things and I am not willing to condemn people just because some people are convinced they do know.

Most people who are that ignorant zbout a topic don’t opine about it.

Since you haven't taken a random sample, statistically I am sure you don't know that to be the case.

I am confident of it.

them[/I] opining freely that this incident was racism.

You cannot know the level of knowledge of other posters nor yhe level of confidence in the knowledge.

 

[Metaphor]

I am confident of it.

Yes, I do not doubt it. It is simply that your confidence is completely unjustified.

You cannot know the level of knowledge of other posters nor yhe level of confidence in the knowledge.

If posters had insider knowledge beyond the posted videos, they are welcome to sure it.

I am certain the other posters do not know what the cops were thinking at any point in the video, because they are not mind readers.

 

[laughing dog]

I am confident of it.

Yes, I do not doubt it. It is simply that your confidence is completely unjustified.

Perhaps. But your assessment is not convincing

If posters had insider knowledge beyond the posted videos, they are welcome to sure it.[
I am certain the other posters do not know what the cops were thinking at any point in the video, because they are not mind readers.

True, but you have argued you can infer thought from words and actions. Apparently you feel you are unique in that ability. Is that hiw you came up with the whopper about Hossain volunteering to be handcuffed?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't know. I can't read the minds of the cops on the scene, though it was obvious at that point he did not present a flight risk.

Do you think them taking their focus off Husain and doing what amounts to putting their trust in Husain that he would stay put, or trust that he (Husain) would not attack them or Z'yke while they were handcuffing Z'yke? I get that it's not racism to you, I can live with that (it's normal to me). The question is do you think that was a smart/correct/right thing for the police to do for their own safety and others?

They literally took their eyes off him a substantial amount of times, enough time for Husain to do just about anything like grab an officer's gun.

Edit: Since people love the land of make-believe figured I'd visit there myself.

They presumed the lighter skinned person was secure... but wasn't.
They presumed the darker skinned person wasn't secure and needed cuffs, but was also flat to the ground on his chest.

Really, had one of them turned to the lighter skinned folk and barked "Sit your ass back down," we'd have less of a case here. Instead, the teen gets up and just kind of loiters. Probably could have walked off if he was quick enough about it.

 

[TomC]

I still wish there was a credible account of what happened during the hour or so after the video ends.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I still wish there was a credible account of what happened during the hour or so after the video ends.
Tom

Why? The violence occurs in the video. That is what needs to be accounted for. And the Police haven't even bothered looking into it according to a post you made. Two teens got into a fight, one was arbitrarily treated roughly while the other almost disregarded. You are looking for justification in the gaps here.

 

[TomC]

Two teens got into a fight, one was arbitrarily treated roughly while the other almost disregarded. You are looking for justification in the gaps here.

Justification isn't what I'm looking for here. I'm looking for understanding. That's why I posted what I did about lack of a substantive response from the PD. And why that looks so bad, in my opinion.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Two teens got into a fight, one was arbitrarily treated roughly while the other almost disregarded. You are looking for justification in the gaps here.

Justification isn't what I'm looking for here. I'm looking for understanding. That's why I posted what I did about lack of a substantive response from the PD. And why that looks so bad, in my opinion.
Tom

And you struggle with the systemic issues raised by others even when it stares you in the face?