If Gods are Real, Where are They?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I've always thought that this question was the most damaging aspect against God: that he dosn't make himself heard. Only an evil entity would design a system where people could only avoid the torture of hell if they follow the odd/contradicting/confusing/metaphoric/strange writings from people 2,000 years ago!

Ditto.

Consider.

Are most ideologies not built on the carrot stick type of ideology/theology/secular law?

In our hierarchical world dualistic universe, I see this as normal and desirable.

Mitigating the harm our carrot and stick ideologies poorly is why we have been gifted with 5,000 years of war history from our vile religions.

We are getting better quickly though as modernization kills the gids.

Regards
DL

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I've always thought that this question was the most damaging aspect against God: that he dosn't make himself heard. Only an evil entity would design a system where people could only avoid the torture of hell if they follow the odd/contradicting/confusing/metaphoric/strange writings from people 2,000 years ago!

That's probably the correct answer, that the gods are just the stories. Unlike other objects in stories that have an actual physical presence outside the story, without the stories about gods there aren't actually any gods, and never have been.

Your logical fallacy is noted.

Using the word "likely never" corrects that.

Remember the atheist bus signs? Rhetorical.

We agree on the supernatural idiocies, but to just throw out your truth, --- would have many ignore the harm that those imaginary gods are still doing, --- with their homophobic and misogynous teachings to otherwise moral children.

There out to be a law against preaching against the law of the land.

Regards
DL

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Your logical fallacy is noted.

What's worse, a logical fallacy or an illogical fallacy?

 

[Swammerdami]

Man in the Bronze Age or even Stone Age were much less knowledgeable than we are today, but their views on spirituality are underestimated, I think.

When people spoke of a "spirit in the mountain" they didn't expect to see a giant hid away in a mountain cave: the whole mountain was the spirit. In Thailand every building has an associated spirit-house; these relate to an animism that predates(?) Buddhism. Nobody expects the spirits "living in the spirit-house" to appear or speak.

Ancient Gods were usually ancestors who'd died and now inhabit some vague "astral plane." Sometimes a relic or statue was created, but sophisticates understood these to be metaphors or points of focus for individual worship, prayer or meditation. Stories about Mt. Olympus were just that: stories.

The God of Israel may seem like an exception, but his existence on a vague astral plane rather than as flesh-and-blood, is even more clear-cut. The God Marduk was represented by a human-looking statue in Babylon, but Yahweh manifested itself as a burning bush to Moses, or spoke from "between the Cherubim." Sure, a few contrary passages can be found in the Bible ("And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness") but these were not a serious part of the religion.

 

[Rhea]

("And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness") but these were not a serious part of the religion.

That’s gonna sting a bit.

 

[steve_bank]

I've always thought that this question was the most damaging aspect against God: that he dosn't make himself heard. Only an evil entity would design a system where people could only avoid the torture of hell if they follow the odd/contradicting/confusing/metaphoric/strange writings from people 2,000 years ago!

If you view all of the bible literally god made a bet with satan over Job. God rains shit down on loyal Job trying to make a point with satan.

The story is rather Trump like....abuse of power.

 

[blastula]

Or that time Moses saw God's shapely buttocks.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Gods are like birds chirping in a dense forest. You walk towards the sound but then it is somewhere else..

God does not exclude the death.

He finds another way of communicating.

I speak of the spark of life that is god in you.

You look and do not see the forest for the trees.

Not all religionists are brain dead believers in the supernatural.

You try to box us all together.

Regards
DL

Great Jebus! An inspirational poster has gained sentience!

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Man in the Bronze Age or even Stone Age were much less knowledgeable than we are today, but their views on spirituality are underestimated, I think.

When people spoke of a "spirit in the mountain" they didn't expect to see a giant hid away in a mountain cave: the whole mountain was the spirit. In Thailand every building has an associated spirit-house; these relate to an animism that predates(?) Buddhism. Nobody expects the spirits "living in the spirit-house" to appear or speak.

Ancient Gods were usually ancestors who'd died and now inhabit some vague "astral plane." Sometimes a relic or statue was created, but sophisticates understood these to be metaphors or points of focus for individual worship, prayer or meditation. Stories about Mt. Olympus were just that: stories.

The God of Israel may seem like an exception, but his existence on a vague astral plane rather than as flesh-and-blood, is even more clear-cut. The God Marduk was represented by a human-looking statue in Babylon, but Yahweh manifested itself as a burning bush to Moses, or spoke from "between the Cherubim." Sure, a few contrary passages can be found in the Bible ("And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness") but these were not a serious part of the religion.

So, as religious behavior has progressed over human history gods have gone from being ghosty stories to becoming actual characters with human existence. Not so unusual actually considering the evolution of the human brain and the arrival of scientific thought over that same time.

 

[steve_bank]

Do gods have toilets? Do they eat?

 

[ideologyhunter]

More importantly, do they fart? And if you're in heaven, close to God, and he rips one, are you supposed to a) pretend nothing happened, or b) pretend it smells like Bod Black?

 

[Politesse]

Do gods have toilets? Do they eat?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrosia

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Man in the Bronze Age or even Stone Age were much less knowledgeable than we are today, but their views on spirituality are underestimated, I think.

When people spoke of a "spirit in the mountain" they didn't expect to see a giant hid away in a mountain cave: the whole mountain was the spirit. In Thailand every building has an associated spirit-house; these relate to an animism that predates(?) Buddhism. Nobody expects the spirits "living in the spirit-house" to appear or speak.

Ancient Gods were usually ancestors who'd died and now inhabit some vague "astral plane." Sometimes a relic or statue was created, but sophisticates understood these to be metaphors or points of focus for individual worship, prayer or meditation. Stories about Mt. Olympus were just that: stories.

The God of Israel may seem like an exception, but his existence on a vague astral plane rather than as flesh-and-blood, is even more clear-cut. The God Marduk was represented by a human-looking statue in Babylon, but Yahweh manifested itself as a burning bush to Moses, or spoke from "between the Cherubim." Sure, a few contrary passages can be found in the Bible ("And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness") but these were not a serious part of the religion.

Today on God is an A-Hole.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness...

The man has now become like one of us... So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

Asshole!

 

[excreationist]

In the Bible it seems immortality comes from eating from the Tree of Life... also this explains exactly why people were banished from the Garden of Eden:

Genesis 3:22-24

The Lord God said, “Just like one of us, the man can now tell the difference between good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out and pick fruit from the tree of life and eat it. If he does, he will live forever.”​

So the Lord God drove the man out of the Garden of Eden. He sent the man to farm the ground he had been made from. The Lord God drove him out and then placed angels on the east side of the garden. He also placed there a flaming sword that flashed back and forth. The angels and the sword guarded the way to the tree of life.​

Revelation 22:2b

On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing 12 crops of fruit. Its fruit was ripe every month. The leaves of the tree bring healing to the nations.
​

I don't think the Bible teaches that the soul is always immortal like the church tradition.... though humans in heaven would have immortality...

 

[DrZoidberg]

The ancients didn't even know what the sun was, or the Moon. Their "planets" were just stars that wandered, they didn't know that these were bodies similar to Earth. So it's understandable that they thought about gods the same way, as things they didn't fully understand. Their gods lived in the sky, the firmament, or above, on mountaintops, in the oceans, rivers, forests, etc. There aren't any gods in any of those places, we know that.

So where are all those gods today? Are they still just "up in the sky?" Is that all? Are they just spooky and invisible?

Where are the gods today?

The ancients (ie Pagan) fully mastered how metaphors and poetry worked. You're describing a way of thinking that only started after the printing press was invented. The ancients were a hell of a lot less certain about how the world worked. They could hold parallel thoughts in their heads. A Greek pagan could believe in the gods and be an atheist at the same time. They could believe that Gaia walked around on two legs while simultaneously being the ground that we walk on.

In many ways they were smarter than us. Christian dominance and intolerance has made the West dumber regarding these things.

 

[steve_bank]

The ancients didn't even know what the sun was, or the Moon. Their "planets" were just stars that wandered, they didn't know that these were bodies similar to Earth. So it's understandable that they thought about gods the same way, as things they didn't fully understand. Their gods lived in the sky, the firmament, or above, on mountaintops, in the oceans, rivers, forests, etc. There aren't any gods in any of those places, we know that.

So where are all those gods today? Are they still just "up in the sky?" Is that all? Are they just spooky and invisible?

Where are the gods today?

The ancients (ie Pagan) fully mastered how metaphors and poetry worked. You're describing a way of thinking that only started after the printing press was invented. The ancients were a hell of a lot less certain about how the world worked. They could hold parallel thoughts in their heads. A Greek pagan could believe in the gods and be an atheist at the same time. They could believe that Gaia walked around on two legs while simultaneously being the ground that we walk on.

In many ways they were smarter than us. Christian dominance and intolerance has made the West dumber regarding these things.

Good post. And always trying to reduce all things to Aristotelian logic. Anything not logical is wrong.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The ancients didn't even know what the sun was, or the Moon. Their "planets" were just stars that wandered, they didn't know that these were bodies similar to Earth. So it's understandable that they thought about gods the same way, as things they didn't fully understand. Their gods lived in the sky, the firmament, or above, on mountaintops, in the oceans, rivers, forests, etc. There aren't any gods in any of those places, we know that.

So where are all those gods today? Are they still just "up in the sky?" Is that all? Are they just spooky and invisible?

Where are the gods today?

The ancients (ie Pagan) fully mastered how metaphors and poetry worked. You're describing a way of thinking that only started after the printing press was invented. The ancients were a hell of a lot less certain about how the world worked. They could hold parallel thoughts in their heads. A Greek pagan could believe in the gods and be an atheist at the same time. They could believe that Gaia walked around on two legs while simultaneously being the ground that we walk on.

In many ways they were smarter than us. Christian dominance and intolerance has made the West dumber regarding these things.

Good post. And always trying to reduce all things to Aristotelian logic. Anything not logical is wrong.

Religion isn't science. Religion is many things. But it's about finding comfort in spite of life being unpredictable and often cruel. It's about making peace with our mortality. It's about creating community. It's about creating shared rituals and symbols. To connect the individual to something greater than them.

The myths of the gods can serve all of these even if it's just a bunch of made up stories and us knowing it is. Just like we can be touched to tears by a movie we know is fully fictional.

Wondering whether God really exists or not is missing the point of religion or of the stories or the religious texts IMHO. Have you never wondered why the description of the Christian God is left so vague? I don't think it's a bug. I think it's a feature.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In the Bible it seems immortality comes from eating from the Tree of Life... also this explains exactly why people were banished from the Garden of Eden:

Genesis 3:22-24

The Lord God said, “Just like one of us, the man can now tell the difference between good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out and pick fruit from the tree of life and eat it. If he does, he will live forever.”​

So the Lord God drove the man out of the Garden of Eden. He sent the man to farm the ground he had been made from. The Lord God drove him out and then placed angels on the east side of the garden. He also placed there a flaming sword that flashed back and forth. The angels and the sword guarded the way to the tree of life.​

That is incredibly sloppy. They are banished from the Garden because they became aware of all things (Good and Evil), and if they ate of the Tree of Life, they'd be immortal, they'd be gods, they'd be "just like one of us". God didn't want the competition.

 

[DrZoidberg]

In the Bible it seems immortality comes from eating from the Tree of Life... also this explains exactly why people were banished from the Garden of Eden:

Genesis 3:22-24

The Lord God said, “Just like one of us, the man can now tell the difference between good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out and pick fruit from the tree of life and eat it. If he does, he will live forever.”​

So the Lord God drove the man out of the Garden of Eden. He sent the man to farm the ground he had been made from. The Lord God drove him out and then placed angels on the east side of the garden. He also placed there a flaming sword that flashed back and forth. The angels and the sword guarded the way to the tree of life.​

That is incredibly sloppy. They are banished from the Garden because they became aware of all things (Good and Evil), and if they ate of the Tree of Life, they'd be immortal, they'd be gods, they'd be "just like one of us". God didn't want the competition.

They could hardly be faulted for making a moral mistake if they didn't understand the concepts of good and evil. It's like putting your dog down for eating your homework. It doesn't know that what it's doing is wrong either.

Nah, it was immoral of God to have a sensitive and very important tree in an environment where uneducated buffoons could damage it. He should have put up barriers around it. This is all on God. God punishing Adam and Eve is just God not taking responsibility for his own actions. Ie, God's moral failing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In the Bible it seems immortality comes from eating from the Tree of Life... also this explains exactly why people were banished from the Garden of Eden:

Genesis 3:22-24

The Lord God said, “Just like one of us, the man can now tell the difference between good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out and pick fruit from the tree of life and eat it. If he does, he will live forever.”​

So the Lord God drove the man out of the Garden of Eden. He sent the man to farm the ground he had been made from. The Lord God drove him out and then placed angels on the east side of the garden. He also placed there a flaming sword that flashed back and forth. The angels and the sword guarded the way to the tree of life.​

That is incredibly sloppy. They are banished from the Garden because they became aware of all things (Good and Evil), and if they ate of the Tree of Life, they'd be immortal, they'd be gods, they'd be "just like one of us". God didn't want the competition.

They could hardly be faulted for making a moral mistake if they didn't understand the concepts of good and evil. It's like putting your dog down for eating your homework. It doesn't know that what it's doing is wrong either.

I swear to god, people don't read! I said: They are banished from the Garden because they became aware of all things (Good and Evil)

Good and Evil doesn't reference morality, it references knowledge. That their eyes were opened, they knew things. To proclaim Good and Evil is about morality makes no sense as God references this critical thing as being one of the top tenants of what makes a god a god, knowledge and immortality... and 2nd day shipping.

Nah, it was immoral of God to have a sensitive and very important tree in an environment where uneducated buffoons could damage it. He should have put up barriers around it. This is all on God. God punishing Adam and Eve is just God not taking responsibility for his own actions. Ie, God's moral failing.

*sigh* The fault of God in the story is his lie about the tree of knowledge. He says eating of it will kill the man and woman. It doesn't, even if we get theists trying to spin this into a BS "spiritual death"... of which isn't mentioned in the Tanakh... ever! The serpent comes along and is like 'dude, that tree won't harm a fly'. The serpent tells the truth, is a quasi-hero of sorts, but also 'knowingly' or 'unknowingly' helps precipitate the ejection from the Garden.

The story tells us that God lies to man and woman because he wants man and woman to be under him, not beside. He fears that if they eat from the Tree of Life, they will be gods, like him... and so he gets them some BDSM outfits and sends them out of the Garden and gives baby angels flaming swords to ensure no one gets back in. The moral of the story is God is a schmuck.