This week in trans: extra prison time possible for misgendering

[Metaphor]

https://insidetime.org/women-face-punishment-for-using-wrong-pronouns/

Women prisoners who call transgender prisoners by the wrong pronoun could be punished with time added on to their sentence, the Government has warned.

Deliberately referring to a trans woman as “he” or “him” may be treated as breaching a prison rule against “using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour” and could be brought before an Independent Adjudicator – a visiting judge – who has the power to award added days.

The threat will fuel a debate over the policy of holding male-to-female transgender prisoners in women’s jails. In 2019 there were 34 transgender women who were still legally male detained at the 12 women’s prisons in England and Wales.

The punishment warning was sounded by Justice Minister Lord Wolfson of Tredegar QC, who said: “Incidents where a prisoner uses incorrect pronouns for another prisoner will be considered on a case-by-case basis, in line with the Prisoner Discipline Procedures policy and the Prison Rules.
“Prisoners may sometimes make an honest mistake in relation to pronouns and disciplinary action would not usually be appropriate in those circumstances. However, if an officer deems it appropriate to place a prisoner on report, the rule against ‘using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour’ – Prison Rule 51(20) – may apply.
“The adjudicator will weigh each incident on its own merits. The policy stipulates that an offence motivated by another person’s protected characteristic(s) under the Equality Act 2010 is an aggravating factor and may merit referral to an Independent Adjudicator.”
Official guidelines state that disciplinary cases are normally heard by a prison governor, and are only referred to an Independent Adjudicator where there is the possibility of days being added on to the sentence – which is the most severe punishment available.

Under Prison Service policy, any prisoner who has legally changed their gender, and been granted a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) to prove it, will automatically be sent to a jail appropriate to their new gender. A prisoner who identifies as the opposite sex but does not have a GRC will initially go a prison for their old, legally-recognised gender, but may later move between the male and female estates following a case-by-case assessment. This summer the High Court upheld the policy, dismissing a claim from a female prisoner that it placed her at risk to be detained with fellow prisoners who were still biologically male.

Lord Wolfson added: “The Ministry of Justice and Her Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service are committed to advancing equality, eliminating discrimination, harassment and victimisation (including based on someone’s religion or belief, or gender reassignment status, as defined in sections 7 and 10 of the Equality Act 2010) … As part of this, we ensure that all prisoners are treated fairly and in a way that respects their rights, and encourage them to act in a way that is respectful and considerate of others.”

 

[Trausti]

So what you in for?

 

[Elixir]

Don’t worry. If you haven’t done anything wrong you have nothing to fear.

 

[Metaphor]

Don’t worry. If you haven’t done anything wrong you have nothing to fear.

Really? So, the fact that the government can punish me (in Australia, in Canada, now the UK) for 'misgendering' somebody is not something I should fear? I should mutter the prayers of the State-mandated religion and be thankful for the opportunity?

 

[Arctish]

Don’t worry. If you haven’t done anything wrong you have nothing to fear.

Really? So, the fact that the government can punish me (in Australia, in Canada, now the UK) for 'misgendering' somebody is not something I should fear? I should mutter the prayers of the State-mandated religion and be thankful for the opportunity?

I'm pretty sure that when you're in prison you're expected to obey the rules, whatever they are, and can be punished for not obeying them. It's been that way for a long time.

 

[Metaphor]

Don’t worry. If you haven’t done anything wrong you have nothing to fear.

Really? So, the fact that the government can punish me (in Australia, in Canada, now the UK) for 'misgendering' somebody is not something I should fear? I should mutter the prayers of the State-mandated religion and be thankful for the opportunity?

I'm pretty sure that when you're in prison you're expected to obey the rules, whatever they are, and can be punished for not obeying them. It's been that way for a long time.

Right....so, do you think it is reasonable for the State to put biological males into the female estate, and punish the inmates on that estate if those inmates 'misgender' somebody?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Don’t worry. If you haven’t done anything wrong you have nothing to fear.

Really? So, the fact that the government can punish me (in Australia, in Canada, now the UK) for 'misgendering' somebody is not something I should fear? I should mutter the prayers of the State-mandated religion and be thankful for the opportunity?

I'm pretty sure that when you're in prison you're expected to obey the rules, whatever they are, and can be punished for not obeying them. It's been that way for a long time.

Yes, and in some places, the rules might ban you from, say, denying the existence of God. Or for saying that Jesus is God, or things like that. The point is that some prison rules are unjust rules. Not to mention that there is no guarantee (nor is it likely) that this would be limited to prisons.

 

[laughing dog]

Don’t worry. If you haven’t done anything wrong you have nothing to fear.

Really? So, the fact that the government can punish me (in Australia, in Canada, now the UK) for 'misgendering' somebody is not something I should fear? I should mutter the prayers of the State-mandated religion and be thankful for the opportunity?

I didn't realize you are in prison.

Prisons have all sorts of rules in order to keep order and reduce inmate vs inmate violence. It looks like this is just one of those rules.

 

[Metaphor]

Don’t worry. If you haven’t done anything wrong you have nothing to fear.

Really? So, the fact that the government can punish me (in Australia, in Canada, now the UK) for 'misgendering' somebody is not something I should fear? I should mutter the prayers of the State-mandated religion and be thankful for the opportunity?

I didn't realize you are in prison.

Prisons have all sorts of rules in order to keep order and reduce inmate vs inmate violence. It looks like this is just one of those rules.

I am not in prison, and I did not claim I was. State punishment of people who do not validate the religious dogmas of gender ideologists is not confined to people in prison.

I'll put you in the 'it is right and proper of the State to force her citizens into muttering the prayers of the State-mandated religion, and punish them when they do not comply' camp.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Practice up on gender-neutral pronouns. You, y'all, they, all youse.
Or figure out how to drop all pronouns from speechifying.

Or, Sweet Jesus And Their All Nurse Band, pick a different hill to die on. Use the forms of address they ask for. Like Doctor, Reverend, Headmaster, Mistress, Ma'am, Detective-Parson, Vicar-Sergeant, Boss.
How often does it really come up for you?

 

[Toni]

Deliberately misgendering people could be considered bullying or harassment. In a prison setting, it would be difficult to escape such harassment. I understand the reasoning behind such rules.

I wonder if there is an issue in male prisons with transgendered men being harassed, etc. and what the policies there are. Anybody know?

 

[Trausti]

Ya gotta think that inmates call one another all sorts of mean shit. But if you're trans you get special protection from offence. Doesn't sound like trans folks are marginalized at all.

 

[Metaphor]

Practice up on gender-neutral pronouns. You, y'all, they, all youse.
Or figure out how to drop all pronouns from speechifying.

Or, Sweet Jesus And Their All Nurse Band, pick a different hill to die on. Use the forms of address they ask for. Like Doctor, Reverend, Headmaster, Mistress, Ma'am, Detective-Parson, Vicar-Sergeant, Boss.
How often does it really come up for you?

Do you think the State should punish people for 'misgendering'?

 

[Metaphor]

Deliberately misgendering people could be considered bullying or harassment. In a prison setting, it would be difficult to escape such harassment. I understand the reasoning behind such rules.

I wonder if there is an issue in male prisons with transgendered men being harassed, etc. and what the policies there are. Anybody know?

Do you think the State should punish people for 'misgendering'?

 

[laughing dog]

I didn't realize you are in prison.

Prisons have all sorts of rules in order to keep order and reduce inmate vs inmate violence. It looks like this is just one of those rules.

I am not in prison, and I did not claim I was. State punishment of people who do not validate the religious dogmas of gender ideologists is not confined to people in prison.

In the context of your own OP, why would a rational person ask if they could be punished by a prison unless they were in prison?

I'll put you in the 'it is right and proper of the State to force her citizens into muttering the prayers of the State-mandated religion, and punish them when they do not comply' camp.

It took me awhile to parse your mumbo-jumbo. If you wish to add to the myriad of the wrong conclusions you have jumped to, no one can stop you.

It is almost as if you think prison is no different that the free world.

 

[Toni]

Deliberately misgendering people could be considered bullying or harassment. In a prison setting, it would be difficult to escape such harassment. I understand the reasoning behind such rules.

I wonder if there is an issue in male prisons with transgendered men being harassed, etc. and what the policies there are. Anybody know?

Do you think the State should punish people for 'misgendering'?

It is common in prison for prisoners to be punished for violating prison rules. These rules are vastly different than rules that apply to persons living outside of jail or prison settings: when you can eat, what you can eat, when you can shower, etc. Lots of things people not incarcerated take for granted are very, very closely controlled in a prison setting. Sometimes that punishment can include having time added onto your sentence.

Generally speaking, I'm not in favor of extending prison sentences for anything other than serious violent behavior. Caveat: I've never worked in a prison or jail setting.

Transgender prisoners in prison populations face an increased rate of assault, rape, etc. from other inmates and from prison personnel. Misgendering prisoners can be a way of harming transgender prisoners, isolating them and making them more vulnerable to such threats as well as increasing their risk for mental health crises.

 

[Metaphor]

It is in the example of the OP. I strongly suspect if the 'state" were proposing to punish regular citizens for this, you'd have another OP.

"Proposing"? The State is already doing it. People have been fined by the State in Canada and Australia for 'misgendering'--at work or on social media. And yes, I've already written about both.

I also reject the implication that it is right and proper to enforce a State-mandated religion on prisoners. That it is somehow okay, as long as 'regular citizens' are not subject to it.

In this context, it was a reasonable inference. After all, why would a rational person ask if they could be punished by a prison unless they were in prison?

I didn't ask that question nor did I imply that I would be punished as a non-prisoner by a prison system.

It is almost as if you think prison is no different that the free world.

How you could draw that conclusion from what I've written I'm sure I do not know.

'Misgendering' as punishable offense in prison is simply another manifestation of exactly how widespread gender ideology has permeated culture and politics. There are no longer single-sex wards in the NHS in the UK, because trans women are women. I am not likely to be in a female-only hospital ward as a patient (unless somebody has made an egregious mistake, or I decide to masquerade as a woman and utter the words 'I am a woman'). That doesn't stop me from feeling concern for the women that are.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I have no idea how Metaphor musters the courage to go outside these days, with all of these terrible threats out there against them.

 

[Metaphor]

It is common in prison for prisoners to be punished for violating prison rules. These rules are vastly different than rules that apply to persons living outside of jail or prison settings: when you can eat, what you can eat, when you can shower, etc. Lots of things people not incarcerated take for granted are very, very closely controlled in a prison setting. Sometimes that punishment can include having time added onto your sentence.

Generally speaking, I'm not in favor of extending prison sentences for anything other than serious violent behavior. Caveat: I've never worked in a prison or jail setting.

Have you ever answered a question that I've asked you?

Do you think it is okay for the State to punish people for 'misgendering'?

Transgender prisoners in prison populations face an increased rate of assault, rape, etc. from other inmates and from prison personnel. Misgendering prisoners can be a way of harming transgender prisoners, isolating them and making them more vulnerable to such threats as well as increasing their risk for mental health crises.

Have you ever answered a question that I've asked you?

Do you think it is okay for the State to punish people for 'misgendering'?

 

[Metaphor]

I have no idea how Metaphor musters the courage to go outside these days, with all of these terrible threats out there against them.

Go out? My government has put me in lockdown.

Also, I do not need to 'go out' to be persecuted by the State for not uttering the prayers of the State religion. I can be punished by the State for 'misgendering' somebody on social media.